IRC office hours/Office hours 2014-02-03

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Overview[edit]

Wikidata update and discussion

Log[edit]

6:00 PM <Lydia_WMDE> hello folks :)
6:00 PM → manybubbles, milimetric, Ltrlg1, Krenair and marktraceur joined
6:01 PM <Lydia_WMDE> who's here for the wikidata office hour?
6:01 PM addshore set the topic: #wikimedia-office "Please note: Office hours for Toolserver -> Wikidata - Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours"
6:01 PM addshore set the topic: #wikimedia-office "Please note: Office hours for Wikidata - Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours"
6:01 PM → greg-g joined (~greg@204.246.122.51)
6:02 PM <addshore> I have a feeling freenode is still running a bit slowly!
6:02 PM <Lydia_WMDE> ok i hope the ride will not be too bumpy
6:02 PM <Lydia_WMDE> but there might be some issues because of the attack freenode is going through atm
6:02 PM ↔ JohnLewis nipped out
6:02 PM <ugh> o/
6:03 PM <JohnLewis> addshore: again, not the time for an office hours :p
6:03 PM <Lydia_WMDE> so addshore is here as well to help me out and make me not go crazy ;-)
6:03 PM <Lydia_WMDE> so let's start with a short status update
6:04 PM <Lydia_WMDE> this weekend Jeroen and I were at FOSDEM
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6:04 PM <Lydia_WMDE> it's a conference in brussels
6:04 PM <Lydia_WMDE> lots of fun and a lot of people were very interested in Wikidata and attended our talk
6:04 PM ↔ greg-g nipped out
6:04 PM <Lydia_WMDE> in terms of development we are right now focusing on performance and bugfixes
6:05 PM manybubbles → Guest72731, Krenair → Guest36057, marktraceur → Guest66665
6:05 PM <Lydia_WMDE> we're moving some large parts of the code so items should be rendered much quicker because less is done in Java Script then
6:05 PM <Lydia_WMDE> we're also doing other small performance fixes but this one should have the largest impact
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6:06 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and we published the plan for the next year and some more at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan
6:06 PM <JohnLewis> Lydia_WMDE: Are the interface updates we discussed previously planned? The changing of icons to, appropriate ones :p
6:06 PM <Lydia_WMDE> it should give you a rough overview of what is planned
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6:07 PM <addshore> JohnLewis: not specifically at the moment but the UI redesign is in planning
6:07 PM <Lydia_WMDE> wif you have particular questions about the plan we can discuss them in a few mins
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6:07 PM <Lydia_WMDE> then let's look at some numbers
6:08 PM <JohnLewis> addshore: Fair enough
6:08 PM <Lydia_WMDE> at the moment we have:
6:08 PM <Lydia_WMDE> more than 27 000 000 statements
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6:08 PM <Lydia_WMDE> more than 109 000 000 edits
6:08 PM ⇐ the-wub quit (~the-wub@188.29.165.136.threembb.co.uk) Read error: Connection reset by peer
6:08 PM <Lydia_WMDE> over 4400 editors who made more than 5 edits over the last 30 days
6:09 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and over 600 who made more than 100
6:09 PM ⇐ ldavis quit (~ldavis@wikipedia/liannadavis) Ping timeout: 248 seconds
6:09 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and by now we brought in over 6600 new wikimedians, meaning people who made their first edit on wikidata before any other wikimedia project
6:09 PM <JohnLewis> Wow. Now I know how many people do more work than me :/
6:09 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i am very very happy about all of those
6:09 PM — Lydia_WMDE hugs JohnLewis
6:10 PM <Lydia_WMDE> you're still awesome because you do the weekly summary for example :D
6:10 PM <JohnLewis> :D
6:10 PM <Lydia_WMDE> right so that's it in terms of status update from me
6:10 PM <Lydia_WMDE> let's move over to questions
6:11 PM <Lydia_WMDE> anyone got any? :)
6:13 PM <Lydia_WMDE> none? everyone happy with the development plan?
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6:13 PM <wylve> whats the plan with commons?
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6:13 PM <wylve> hows it going to be implemented with wikidata
6:14 PM <Lydia_WMDE> good one
6:14 PM <Lydia_WMDE> so we plan to tackle this this year
6:14 PM <Lydia_WMDE> there is a lot of groundwork that needs to be done unfortunately before there is anything really visible or usable
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6:14 PM <Lydia_WMDE> but we will get there over the year
6:15 PM <Lydia_WMDE> what we have in mind is that for every file on commons there is a metadata page attached
6:15 PM <Lydia_WMDE> this would be similar to an item page on wikidata
6:15 PM <wylve> will this effort be led by the people at commons, or is it going to be a wikidata thing
6:15 PM <Lydia_WMDE> on this page the data for the file is stored
6:15 PM <Lydia_WMDE> like the license, author name, tags and so on
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6:16 PM <Lydia_WMDE> the development effort will be lead by the wikidata development team
6:16 PM <benestar> Lydia_WMDE: so the data will be stored in Wikidata?
6:16 PM <Lydia_WMDE> in terms of content it will be driven by the community just like it was with wikidata
6:16 PM <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: no on commons
6:16 PM <benestar> we could also think of making commons another repo
6:16 PM <benestar> ok, like that :)
6:16 PM <Lydia_WMDE> wylve: does that answer your question?
6:17 PM <wylve> Lydia_WMDE: yea thanks
6:17 PM <Lydia_WMDE> cool :)
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6:18 PM <wylve> what im thinking is that we'll have three repos in the future: wikidata, commons and wiktionary
6:18 PM gwicke_a` → gwicke
6:18 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i am not sure yet how we're going to do wiktionary exactly
6:18 PM <Lydia_WMDE> but might well be
6:18 PM <wylve> cause words cant really be integrated into a repo for entities
6:19 PM <Lydia_WMDE> yeah question is if we do another namespace or a seperate repo
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6:19 PM <Lydia_WMDE> but i think we'll need to see how commons goes first
6:19 PM JohnLewis_ → JohnLewis
6:19 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and then lplan in more detail
6:19 PM <dennyvrandecic> wylve: the most recent plan is to use another namespace, http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary
6:19 PM <Lydia_WMDE> dennyvrandecic: thanks ;-)
6:20 PM <dennyvrandecic> especially, since there is no single wiktionary but several
6:20 PM <wylve> ty
6:21 PM <JohnLewis> Hm. With the multilingual datatype (for how will this work :p), would it not be possible with some creative statements to support Wiktionary as-is on Wikidata without mass modification or modification to the repo itself?
6:22 PM <Lydia_WMDE> JohnLewis: i fear it is more complicated than that looking at the research we've done so far
6:22 PM <dennyvrandecic> JohnLewis: only with an unusual amount of pain
6:22 PM <benestar> to the multilingual datatype
6:22 PM <JohnLewis> dennyvrandecic: Fair enough.
6:22 PM <benestar> will it include a fallback language?
6:22 PM <benestar> or will no value be displayed if the language is lacking of a value
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6:24 PM <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: the point of the datatype is to always show you values in a particular language or several
6:24 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i am not sure where a fallback would make sense
6:25 PM <Tpt_> Will simple queries be rolled out soon (in the next two months) or is it a middle/long term scope (before/after August)?
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6:26 PM <Lydia_WMDE> Tpt_: we're concentrating on performance first atm but then queries get more attention again
6:26 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i hope we will have an initial version soon but i can't yet give you a time estimate unfortunately
6:26 PM <Tpt_> Ok. So not before 3/4 months?
6:26 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i hope earlier
6:27 PM <Tpt_> Thanks. And what about arbitrary data access?
6:28 PM <Lydia_WMDE> also high on my list
6:28 PM <Lydia_WMDE> the biggest issue there is figuring out what pages to purge on the client when someone makes a change on wikidata
6:29 PM <Lydia_WMDE> for that we need usage tracking
6:29 PM <Tpt_> Thanks :-) I think it's the two technical things that blocks massive Wikidata use in other projects.
6:29 PM <Lydia_WMDE> definitely
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6:29 PM <Lydia_WMDE> which is also why they're high on the development plan
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6:31 PM <hoo> Talking about Lua: Soon there will be a new access interface for Wikibase, so that you can use Wikidata data in a much more convenient way
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6:32 PM <Tpt_> hoo: Thanks. I've begun to work as a pet project on https://github.com/Tpt/DataValuesScribunto that would expose DataValues containers, parsers and serializer in Lua.
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6:32 PM <Tpt_> example of DataValue: https://github.com/Tpt/DataValuesScribunto/blob/master/src/DataValues/Scribunto/Lua/mw.dataValues.GlobeCoordinateValue.lua
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6:34 PM <hoo> Tpt_: Nice, our approach will be a much smaller library not implementing the DataValues interfaces
6:34 PM <hoo> We want to have it lightweight and simple... only ship what's needed in the Wikis
6:35 PM <ugh> hoo: when is "soon"? ;)
6:35 PM Guest66665 set the topic: Office hours for Wikidata | Please note - Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
6:35 PM <hoo> ugh: Almost certainly this month
6:35 PM <ugh> :D
6:36 PM <Tpt_> hoo: I think these two approach are complementary: one to have something easy to use and one for specific use cases because a lot of users wants to have there preferred formatting and to do some computations on values.
6:36 PM <Tpt_> The idea is also to have a basic set of DataType for data sharing between modules.
6:39 PM <hoo> Ok, it's nice to see you working on that... keep us up to date :) For now our plan is to have a simple to understand API for common tasks, so that users don't have to manually go through entity structures
6:39 PM <Tpt_> hoo: Ok.
6:41 PM <Lydia_WMDE> any other questions?
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6:43 PM <dennyvrandecic> are there any plans already on how to integrate the entity suggester into wikidata?
6:43 PM <Lydia_WMDE> did you see the latest demo?
6:43 PM <Lydia_WMDE> http://suggester.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Item:Q4
6:43 PM <dennyvrandecic> yes, it is pretty awesome
6:43 PM <Lydia_WMDE> click add
6:44 PM <Lydia_WMDE> this is the first integration
6:44 PM <dennyvrandecic> I did, I did, but I mean towards productionizing it :)
6:44 PM <Lydia_WMDE> it will go through code review soon
6:44 PM <dennyvrandecic> sweet
6:44 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and then live with some modifications
6:44 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and then more suggestions in other places
6:44 PM <dennyvrandecic> great news, thanks
6:44 PM <JohnLewis> Amazing.
6:44 PM <Stryn> I really like it :)
6:45 PM <Lydia_WMDE> as well as possibly using it to find statements that are likely not fitting for the item
6:45 PM <Lydia_WMDE> but i have not decided yet how to do that
6:45 PM <Lydia_WMDE> we will have a meeting this week to discuss the next steps
6:45 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i'm going to push for having the initial version deployed soon
6:45 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and then develop more suggestions
6:46 PM <Lydia_WMDE> like integration for sources and item values
6:46 PM <Lydia_WMDE> maybe
6:46 PM <dennyvrandecic> thanks, that is awesome
6:46 PM <Lydia_WMDE> it is! :)
6:46 PM <dennyvrandecic> other question: how was the reaction to your talk at fosdem? I saw that the room was quite full
6:46 PM <Lydia_WMDE> really happy with the work of the students
6:46 PM <Lydia_WMDE> very good
6:46 PM <Lydia_WMDE> unfortunately it wasn't recorded
6:47 PM <dennyvrandecic> yeah :(
6:47 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and the slot was too short
6:47 PM <addshore> I was looking forward to watching it!
6:47 PM <Lydia_WMDE> but besides that it was very good i think
6:47 PM <Lydia_WMDE> people loved wiri
6:47 PM Athyria → Isarra
6:47 PM <Lydia_WMDE> Eloquence also pitched wikidata in his keynote
6:47 PM <Lydia_WMDE> <3
6:48 PM <Lydia_WMDE> there was a lot of wikimedia stuff going on at this year's fosdem
6:48 PM <Lydia_WMDE> in previous years there was close to nothing
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6:49 PM <Ironholds> Lydia_WMDE, well, now that Erik knows that you guys control what google search says about him... ;p
6:49 PM <Ironholds> (I kid, I kid. Okay, back under my bridge.)
6:49 PM <dennyvrandecic> :D
6:49 PM <Lydia_WMDE> Ironholds: :P
6:49 PM <addshore> :D
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6:50 PM <JohnLewis> Ironholds: I though dennyvrandecic controlled that now :p
6:51 PM <Lydia_WMDE> JohnLewis: still one of us :D
6:51 PM <Ironholds> fair point, well made
6:51 PM <Ironholds> one of us. one of us.
6:51 PM <addshore> we controll denny? :>
6:51 PM <JohnLewis> Lydia_WMDE: :p
6:51 PM <dennyvrandecic> I'd beg to differ :)
6:51 PM <Lydia_WMDE> dennyvrandecic: with what exactly? ;-)
6:53 PM <dennyvrandecic> with addshore's latest statement :)
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6:54 PM <Lydia_WMDE> ;-)
6:54 PM <Lydia_WMDE> fair enough
6:54 PM <Lydia_WMDE> alright people
6:54 PM <Lydia_WMDE> anything else for the last 6 mins?
6:55 PM <benestar> Lydia_WMDE: please pick Daniel to hurry up with that entity redirect feature
6:56 PM <benestar> this will reduce admins' work rapidely
6:56 PM <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: noted
6:56 PM <Lydia_WMDE> :)
6:56 PM <benestar> ;)
6:56 PM hoo → hoo|away
6:56 PM <benestar> I'd also like to help out but Daniel wanted to change some things in general
6:57 PM <Lydia_WMDE> ok cool
6:57 PM <Lydia_WMDE> i'll poke him about it
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6:59 PM <Lydia_WMDE> alright then
6:59 PM <Lydia_WMDE> thanks everyone for coming :)
6:59 PM <Lydia_WMDE> and thanks freenode for not acting up
6:59 PM <Lydia_WMDE> \o/
6:59 PM <addshore> [=
7:00 PM — JohnLewis points out to Lydia_WMDE the fact he kept joining and quiting
7:00 PM <addshore> Lydia_WMDE: doesnt see parts or joins :P
7:00 PM <JohnLewis> :p
7:00 PM <Lydia_WMDE> -.-
7:00 PM — Lydia_WMDE pets her Quassel
7:00 PM <JohnLewis> addshore: Oh well... :p
7:00 PM <addshore> Logs will be up on meta wiki as usual with an email to the mailing list :)