IRC office hours/Office hours 2016-03-30

People present (lines said)[edit]

CKoerner_WMF (45)
JustinO (16)
tfinc (11)
YairRand (8)
Deskana (6)
MaxSem (5)
wm-labs-meetbot (3)
yurik (2)
gehel (1)
dcausse (1)
legoktm (1)
Log[edit]

Chat on Office Hour and Bluejeans on what's new in Discovery
30 March 2016
18:30 - 19:30 UTC
29:05 <CKoerner_WMF> #startmeeting What's new in Discovery | Wikimedia meetings channel | Please note: Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE) | Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/

29:05 <wm-labs-meetbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 30 18:29:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is CKoerner_WMF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.

29:05 <wm-labs-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.

29:05 <wm-labs-meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'what_s_new_in_discovery___wikimedia_meetings_channel___please_note__channel_is_logged_and_publicly_posted__do_not_remove_this_note____logs__http___bots_wmflabs_org__wm_bot_logs__23wikimedia_office_'

29:41 * MaxSem waves

29:45 <dcausse> o/

29:50 <tfinc> CKoerner_WMF: thanks, and greetings to all of those who have joined us

30:17 * tfinc waves back to MaxSem and dcausse

30:18 <YairRand> (I don't suppose there's any way to access the feed without giving the site webcam access?)

30:48 <CKoerner_WMF> YairRand You can disable your webcam, but I can't remember if that's before or after you connect.

31:17 <legoktm> o/

31:24 <MaxSem> also, scotch

31:36 <CKoerner_WMF> Reminder for those who'd like to join us via video/audio, we have a meeting setup here: https://bluejeans.com/388063933/

31:46 <MaxSem> as in, tape on your webcam, not whiskey :P

32:28 <MaxSem> anyway? questions?

33:16 <gehel> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/2015-16_Q4_Goals

33:32 <tfinc> First question on blue jeans is about Q4 goals --^

34:06 <tfinc> it is a bit weird to be split between video and irc link here

34:12 <tfinc> but we'll make the best of it

34:12 <CKoerner_WMF> one of the first goals is looking into language detection

34:38 <tfinc> specially using https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/TextCat

34:44 <CKoerner_WMF> A/B test this quarter in language detection.

35:03 <CKoerner_WMF> Also, this quarter, look into upgrading Elasticsearch

35:44 <CKoerner_WMF> improve stability and performance

36:27 <YairRand> geospaciel queries, that means searching for things within a certain geographic area?

37:18 <CKoerner_WMF> YairRand I'll tee that up for an answer

37:42 <MaxSem> YairRand, yes: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GeoData#list.3Dgeosearch

40:54 <tfinc> CKoerner_WMF: i'm always torn between transcribing all the good discussion on the video link vs treating these two as different streams

41:05 <CKoerner_WMF> Now talking about clarifying the record of work for Discovery.

41:24 <CKoerner_WMF> Deb's talking a little about describing the work on the Portal: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:DTankersley_(WMF)/Proposals/Wikipedia_Portal_Update

41:44 <CKoerner_WMF> As an example of plans for a particular area

42:17 <CKoerner_WMF> (also another thing Discovery is working on!)

43:07 <CKoerner_WMF> Justin O. Wants more metrics! :)

44:15 <tfinc> YairRand: do you have any other questions about GeoSpatial ?

44:22 <YairRand> tfinc: nope

45:02 <YairRand> actually, is this stuff going to work with geoshapes, once that's available?

46:17 <YairRand> that's a planned property datatype in wikidata

46:22 <CKoerner_WMF> YairRand Do you mean polygons on interactive maps?

46:54 <tfinc> YairRand: what's the use case and do we have a phab task for it? we'll need that to prioritize

46:57 <CKoerner_WMF> reference: https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elasticsearch/guide/current/geo-shapes.html

47:14 <CKoerner_WMF> Use cases and phab tickets are welcome to help prioritize!

47:37 <YairRand> (searches around on phab)

47:58 <Deskana> YairRand: I'm not aware of any Phab tickets for this. :-)

48:44 <CKoerner_WMF> I think I see one that YairRand mentioned (planned property datatype in Wikidata) here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T57549

49:00 <Deskana> There we go.

52:12 <CKoerner_WMF> Now talking about http://www.gdal.org and how we might interpret geospacial data

53:59 <CKoerner_WMF> Max is talking about the need for a central repository for such data, if not in wikidata itself.

54:37 <CKoerner_WMF> Current plate of work is full, but would be something to look into in the future.

54:49 <CKoerner_WMF> Short term maps plan - get maps on Wikipedia!

55:27 <JustinO> how many people are on search?

56:07 <Deskana> JustinO: About 3.5 engineers.

56:10 <JustinO> k

56:38 <tfinc> JustinO: + ops + PM

56:44 <Deskana> There is a team breakdown here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Discovery#The_team

56:49 <JustinO> thx

58:00 <CKoerner_WMF> Max is reminding us that if you have an interest in something the team is working on join the related task(s) in Phabricator.

58:44 <CKoerner_WMF> For those who are possibly new to Phabricator: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator

59:14 <CKoerner_WMF> Now we're talking about making repositiories public.

59:22 <CKoerner_WMF> And now on to recall issues

59:34 <CKoerner_WMF> me/ What is 'recall' in relation to search?

01:26 <CKoerner_WMF> Nevermind. There's a wiki article for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_and_recall

04:18 <CKoerner_WMF> Justin O. suggests taking results with zero results and running them against other search engines and see what they return. Why do they differ?

04:31 <JustinO> take ZRP queries, runtime on google/bing/ddg (theQuery site:wikipedia.org). if google returns a reasonable answer, figure out why.

05:25 <JustinO> recall: the ability to bring the correct result on to the search page. precision: placing the result in the best place on the page

05:37 <YairRand> *crickets*

05:52 <Deskana> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:TJones_(WMF)/Notes/Why_People_Use_Search_Engines

06:24 <JustinO> other recall ideas:

06:25 <JustinO> find top queries w/ a low SAT or click rate. categorize them & count the categories. is there an easy category w/ high impact to attack?

06:26 <JustinO> run top queries w/ a low SAT or click rate on google & compare.

06:26 <JustinO> look at session that begin on wikipedia, then goto google and back to wikipedia.

06:32 <tfinc> I'd love any questions/comments/concerns on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Discovery/FDC_Proposal

06:47 <CKoerner_WMF> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:TJones_(WMF)/Notes#Survey_of_Zero-Results_Queries

06:52 <JustinO> for SAT sessions of len >= 2, look at first query & final query. figure out why the first query wasn't successful.

07:59 <JustinO> recall: for SAT sessions of len >= 2, look at first query & final query. figure out why the first query wasn't successful.

08:50 <CKoerner_WMF> Question from video chat "Have you looking into other ways to determine satisfaction with search results?"

09:06 <CKoerner_WMF> dwell times are one way

09:14 <CKoerner_WMF> but what about things like

09:14 <CKoerner_WMF> copying the URL

09:17 <CKoerner_WMF> or content snippets?

09:24 <CKoerner_WMF> signifying that the got the information that they needed?

09:55 <CKoerner_WMF> Right now our user satisfaction metrics are desktop only

10:06 <yurik> CKoerner_WMF, should i try to join the video chat?

10:06 <CKoerner_WMF> looking in the future to do something with mobile (as it's growing)

10:15 <CKoerner_WMF> yurik Feel free!

10:46 <CKoerner_WMF> web dwarfs apps for search. That's interesting.

11:04 <CKoerner_WMF> More fun with numbers here: http://discovery.wmflabs.org/metrics/

12:18 <yurik> CKoerner_WMF, apps are like 1% of all of our traffic, maybe less

13:00 <CKoerner_WMF> comparing second queries to first when folks have unsatisfied results. Look at the distance (frequency of words)

13:12 <Deskana> TFIDF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tf%E2%80%93idf

13:21 <CKoerner_WMF> ^related to search satisfaction

14:30 <CKoerner_WMF> Dan's sharing some stats: http://discovery.wmflabs.org/metrics/#survival

17:49 <JustinO> Defining SAT:  (what is search success on wikipedia?)

17:49 <JustinO> dwell >30s

17:49 <JustinO> copy url / snippet contents

17:49 <JustinO> click external link & dwell >30s on click

17:49 <JustinO> click & click sub-page & dwell >30s

19:07 <YairRand> one day someone needs to figure out how to get meetings like this on-wiki without losing any features

19:14 <CKoerner_WMF> If there are no more questions we're going to wrap up this chat.

19:48 <CKoerner_WMF> #endmeeting
Meeting ended at 19:19:48 UTC.