IRC office hours/Office hours 2019-07-18

17:00:08 <Keegan> #startmeeting Structured Data on Commons office hour
17:00:08 <wm-labs-meetbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 18 17:00:08 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Keegan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:08 <wm-labs-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:00:08 <wm-labs-meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'structured_data_on_commons_office_hour'
17:00:27 <Keegan> Welcome to another SDC office hour. It's been a little while as features have been released
17:00:42 <Keegan> We have some things that the team can talk about
17:00:55 <Keegan> There's the impending testing and release of "other statements"
17:01:13 <Keegan> There's plans for what's next for the remaining grant time, which is six months, and the six month period after
17:01:21 <Keegan> We can talk about roadblocks for Lua support
17:01:41 <Keegan> Or, if we want to get really fun, a hot topic: should statement orders on the structured data tab be fixed?
17:02:45 <Keegan> There's also ideas for campaign support, if anyone here is interested in that
17:03:25 <Keegan> So maybe we should start with the next release, other statements. risler would you like to tell us what those are?
17:04:16 <risler> "Other statements" covers official support for everything beyond Depicts and Captions (aka labels)
17:04:59 <risler> in the beginning, we won't have full support for every single Wikidata property because we have to do some front-end work to support certain input types, but we'll cover it all eventually
17:05:21 <Keegan> What will need to wait on to support?
17:06:24 <risler> Our initial release will cover everything that takes another entity as its value. We're still working on other input values like Geo-coordinates, Time, multilingual text, etc.
17:07:13 <sario528> Is there a project overview page?
17:07:38 <Keegan> sario528: there is, it's at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data
17:07:47 <sario528> Thanks
17:10:51 <Keegan> For some reference on properties that can be used in other statements https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Properties_table
17:11:48 <Spinster> With other statements being deployed, I'm looking forward to seeing the community figuring out the data modelling / ontology. Structured data for licenses is an interesting one, for instance
17:12:38 <Keegan> "Interesting" :)
17:13:25 <Keegan> There are still properties to be created, probably, as well as the ontology
17:13:30 <Keegan> So much to do soon!
17:14:30 <Spinster> We already have several Wikimedia Commons-specific properties on Wikidata, and many more will probably be created in the upcoming months and even years
17:14:43 <Keegan> Has anyone lurking looked at other statements yet on test-commons? We haven't "announced" testing yet but they are available there https://test-commons.wikimedia.org
17:16:07 <Keegan> The team is still working out labeling for wikidata links
17:17:36 <Keegan> (which, if anyone has thoughts on how things should link to Wikidata, please share)
17:19:31 <abian> What do you mean by "how things should link"?
17:20:43 <Keegan> In the design of the links, instead of having the wikidata label or barcode with the link (which is what Wikidata does), displaying the Q and P numbers directly
17:21:02 <Keegan> Or, reverse that
17:21:13 <Keegan> Wikidata shows the Q 'n Ps, the question is if we should
17:22:52 <Keegan> Test Commons is currently showing the Q/P numbers
17:24:32 <Keegan> The other thing we're thinking about, for after other statements, is campaigns and designing support for them
17:25:45 <abian> (Sorry, my computer crashed)
17:25:57 <abian> I guess it doesn't do any harm to include the entity IDs
17:26:22 * Keegan nods
17:26:23 <risler> For Upload Wizard campaigns, we'll be empowering campaign organizers to customize how structured data fields appear in the campaign interface.
17:26:24 <abian> It's also true that other features could be added as well to disambiguate, for example for places (the country)
17:27:16 <Keegan> abian: what would you have in mind, including the label/description
17:28:12 <abian> London, UK (Q84)
17:28:30 <abian> That is, [label], [label of the country] (QID), for example
17:28:40 <Keegan> right right
17:29:51 <abian> But I don't want to mess up your lives either if you have enough on your plates :)
17:30:36 <marktraceur> Yeah, the problem with that from a technical perspective is that it's a very special-case thing that wouldn't even work for all cities
17:30:57 <marktraceur> Whereas all the other special-case ambiguous items would still have problems
17:31:34 <Keegan> The challenges for this project are many :)
17:31:36 <marktraceur> We're pretty focused on supporting broad use-cases first :)
17:32:46 <abian> Actually it should work for all cities/towns/villages/administrative entities in general... and, in case the Item is incomplete and there's no country defined, it's possible to just skip that part
17:33:51 <Keegan> Fair point. As mentioned we're looking for ideas before we fix on a design, so that's one to keep in mind
17:35:24 <Keegan> As a bit of an update on Lua support, the debate is raging in the phabricator tickets
17:35:29 <Keegan> The ticket for the request is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T223792
17:36:06 <Keegan> The request looks like it's fairly easy to do, *except* for the wb_terms redesing
17:36:08 <Keegan> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T227848
17:36:11 <Keegan> *redesign
17:36:37 <Keegan> The SDC team might have to wait a few months for the redesign to be implemented to figure out how to pull media items into Lua
17:42:01 <risler> Additionally, we'd like community to consider which order statements should appear in. For example, on Wikidata, "instance of" is always at the top if it's present.
17:42:55 <risler> this ordering is achieved via a sorted properties feature. Wikidata handles it like this: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikibase-SortedProperties
17:43:10 <Keegan> (the only thing decided for SDC so far that's in fixed position is Depicts first, IIRC)
17:43:17 <risler> The Commons equivalent is https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikibase-SortedProperties
17:44:26 <risler> we'd love for the community to discuss how they'd like to prioritize statements and then have members with the appropriate edit rights edit the SortedProperties page accordingly
17:45:20 <Keegan> FWIW we'll likely be posting about this on-wiki soon
17:45:41 * Keegan rides the netsplit
17:48:14 <Keegan> Okay, we have a little over ten minutes left. I think we've covered most of what I wanted to bring up.
17:48:46 <Keegan> (I'll repost that in a second as people get back from the split)
17:49:11 <Keegan> Okay, we have a little over ten minutes left. I think we've covered most of what I wanted to bring up.
17:49:29 <Keegan> Anything else from anyone out there, or from the team?
17:50:12 <Steinsplitter> Keegan: good job! :)
17:50:42 <Keegan> Steinsplitter: Thanks :)
17:51:30 <abian> Thanks for the update!
17:52:23 <abian> Folks, I think you should request (or order) :) more feedback more often
17:52:55 <Keegan> I agree
17:54:04 <Keegan> Thanks all for being here and reading along, I think we'll go ahead and wrap this up a few minutes early.
17:54:39 <Keegan> We'll do this again soon, took way too long of a break hosting these while we were releasing stuff
17:55:13 <Keegan> #endmeeting