Mailing list merge

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note: Vote for this proposal was closed on March 25, and the mailinglist Intlwiki-l was formally closed. [1]


The intlwiki-l mailing list should be merged with the wikipedia-l mailing list.


Both mailing lists serve as general discussion forums for the Wikipedia project. The intlwiki-l mailing list is, however, explicitly labeled as a list for the "non-English Wikipedias". This is discriminatory and ghettoizes these Wikipedias, in effect erecting a communication barrier between the members of the different projects (English and non-English).

An empirical look at the intlwiki-l and wikipedia-l archives supports that discussions are mostly about the same issues, with the addition of technical issues on the intlwiki-l mailing list.

For March 2004, on intlwiki-l:

  • 4 technical threads regarding internationalization
  • 4 bureaucrat/admin requests
  • 1 media report
  • 1 copyright thread (inter-project policy)
  • 2 project announcements

On wikipedia-l:

  • 4 Wikimedia project proposal threads
  • 4 copyright threads (inter-project policy)
  • 2 media reports
  • 2 project announcements
  • 2 threads pertaining to the English Wikipedia only
  • 2 inter-project policy threads
  • 1 bot thread (inter-project)
  • 1 Wikimedia Foundation thread
  • 1 bureaucrat request
  • 1 bug report
  • 1 feature proposal

Only about 3 or 4 of the MediaWiki developers are subscribed to intlwiki-l. Internationalization issues with the software should be discussed on the mailing list where developers are actually listening: wikitech-l. As for requests for adminship and bureaucrat status, these should be handled here on Meta, namely on Requests for permissions, so that there is a real consensus seeking process with open participation.

Merging the mailing lists will expose more people to international issues, reduce redundancy, reduce discrimination, and simplify project announcements.

Arguments against[edit]

  • This will expose people to issues from the English Wikipedia
    • No, the policy is clear: Issues only relevant to the English Wikipedia are discussed on wikien-l. Enforcement of that policy will logically increase when more people are involved who are annoyed by its violation.
  • People can discuss issues on intlwiki-l in their language
    • This has always been allowed on wikipedia-l, too
  • Some issues raised at Intlwiki-l are not interlingual or project-wide in nature. They are language-specific, and they need to raise the issue somewhere to get attention from others interested. Participants of Wikipedia-l and Wikitech-l might be more interested in project-wide issues, and not issues specific to minor language-wikipedias, nor basic questions from minor language-wikipedias.
    • We can clarify that issues that need attention from outside their own language-wikipedias are welcome at Wikipedia-l and Wikitech-l.


Deadline: March 25, 20:00 UTC

Yes, the mailing lists should be merged:

  1. —Eloquence 19:55, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  2. Willy 20:18, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  3. Anthere 22:05, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  4. The Anome 00:13, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  5. denny 03:26, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  6. Timwi 04:38, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  7. Ryo 08:57, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  8. Looxix 11:55, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  9. Kurt Jansson 19:06, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  10. Andrew Levine 20:11, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  11. Kpjas 21:21, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  12. Angela
  13. Erdal Ronahi 20:51, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  14. Jeff8765 03:35, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  15. 01:34, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  16. BCorr|Брайен 21:38, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No, the mailing lists should not be merged:

Other (please comment):

People can discuss issues on intlwiki-l in their language : This has always been allowed on wikipedia-l, too

I have no memory of this being allowed. It would be good to publicly state it. Anthere
  1. Abstain: Spikey 22:07, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
    • On grounds of ignorance. It does seem that any issues relevant across all non-English 'Pedians are relevant to Englash 'Pedians too. If individual wikis need individual lists, they should have them, like WikiEN-l.