Movement roles/Working group meeting 2011-2-25

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[19:44] == Jon__ [56ad37fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[19:48] <Theo10011> Hey Jon
[19:51] <Jon__> Hey Theo.  How are you today?
[19:53] == Austin [~austin@wikimedia/Austin] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[19:53] <Jon__> hey Austin
[19:53] <Austin> Hey Jon
[19:54] <Jon__> We missed you this week.  Were you OK?
[19:54] <Theo10011> I'm fine, thank you.
[19:54] <Jon__> Theo, are you in India right now?
[19:55] <Theo10011> ya
[19:55] <Jon__> Thanks for logging on so late ... it is 0130 there, right?
[19:55] <Theo10011> ya
[19:55] <Theo10011> np, I sleep late.
[19:56] <Jon__> some of us are owls of the night
[19:57] <Theo10011> we sure are.
[19:59] <Jon__> Hey Austin, how have you been this week?
[20:00] <Austin> Not too bad, how about you?
[20:01] <Austin> I wish I had more response on the charter, but I imagine we'll talk about that in a bit.
[20:01] <Theo10011> Hey Austin
[20:01] <Jon__> I've been fine, thx.  Good to hear that you have been OK.  I tried to contact you a few times this week, and was worried that you might be ill
[20:01] <Austin> Hey Theo
[20:01] <Austin> Oh!
[20:02] <Austin> I suspect I missed an e-mail or two
[20:02] <Theo10011> heh
[20:02] <Theo10011> have you had a look at
[20:02] == lyzzy [~lyzzy@wikimedia/lyzzy] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[20:02] <Theo10011>
[20:02] <Jon__> Hi Alice
[20:02] <lyzzy> hi all
[20:02] <Theo10011> Hiya
[20:02] <Jon__> We're missing a few who have sent apologies
[20:03] <Jon__> Arne and Delphine have a guest from Egypt
[20:03] <Theo10011> I know barry is traveling right now.
[20:03] <Jon__> Barry is in India
[20:03] <Jon__> Bishakha cannot make it because of the hour
[20:04] <Austin> Galileo just sent his apologies
[20:04] <Jon__> For the same reason Morgan and Anirudh cannot be here
[20:04] <Austin> In case anyone didn't see it, he also says that he hasn't been able to flesh out the new groups e-mail
[20:05] <Jon__> We'll need to move that item to next week
[20:05] <Austin> Yep
[20:05] <Jon__> Lodewijk said he would try to join, and I can see him in the room, but it looks as if he is not at his computer
[20:06] <Austin> Got him
[20:06] <Jon__> Let's go
[20:07] <effeietsanders> Jon__: usually then it is a good start to mention my nickname in the channel
[20:07] <effeietsanders> then alarms go off ;-)
[20:07] <Jon__> aha
[20:07] <Jon__> did everyone see the agenda?
[20:07] <Jon__>
[20:08] <Jon__> I spoke to Arne today who asked that his item be moved to next week
[20:08] <Jon__>
[20:08] <Austin> Okay
[20:08] <effeietsanders> I'm  a bit behind reading, that is the disadvantage of doing this on friday
[20:09] <Jon__> Arne also suggested that next week we make an agenda item the agreement of the draft charter to put onto meta from MR wiki
[20:09]  * Austin clicks on eia's calendar and sees a big swath of "internship"
[20:09] <effeietsanders> yeah :P
[20:09] <effeietsanders> flu all around
[20:09] <Austin> So, we had a jam session for the charter earlier this week.
[20:10] <Jon__> Great.  Who was there for that?
[20:10] <Austin> It was a bit disappointing, but it was something.
[20:10] <Shirley> "Movement roles" seems like a euphemism for "chapters discussion."
[20:10] <Austin> Bence and Anirudh, but I made the edits.
[20:10] <Jon__> A good start
[20:10] <Austin> Shirley: It incorporates chapter roles, of course, but I wouldn't call it a euphemism.
[20:10] <Austin> Chapters are obviously a very important part of what we're discussing.
[20:11] <Shirley> Well, I mean that it seems like that's the primary focus.
[20:11] <Shirley> Yes.
[20:11] <effeietsanders> ah, that was while I was in a real life strategy weekend :P
[20:11] <Shirley> Which is fine, but I don't think that's very clear with the name.
[20:11] <Austin> Lodewijk: yeah, it was Monday
[20:11] <effeietsanders> even only heard about it afterwards
[20:11] <Austin> Er, Sunday
[20:11] <effeietsanders> Shirley: = MZMcBride right?
[20:11] <effeietsanders> (for the log :) )
[20:11] <Austin> I think so
[20:11] <Shirley> Prove it.
[20:12] <Austin> Well, your ircname is "MZMcbride"
[20:12] <effeietsanders> Shirley: we would like the movement to be so much more than WMF and chapters :)
[20:12] <Austin> Nickserv betrayed you.
[20:12] <effeietsanders> also on the organizational side
[20:12] <Shirley> NickServ is a cruel and fickle mistress.
[20:13] <effeietsanders> (lets not go into the misbehavior of nickserv here)
[20:13] <Shirley> effeietsanders: Maybe, but most of the movement roles stuff I've looked at seems to be about chapters.
[20:13] <effeietsanders> Shirley: it is not about the editing community if that is what you mean
[20:13] <Shirley> I don't have a problem with that except to say that I think the naming is a little confusing.
[20:13] <Shirley> Okay.
[20:13] <Shirley> Though I think the editing community is a pretty big part of the general movement. ;-)
[20:13] <effeietsanders> we dont want to re-do the strategy process :)
[20:13] <effeietsanders> yes, but this process focuses on the organizational side
[20:14] <effeietsanders> it was originally called Organizational Roles I think
[20:14] <effeietsanders> but that was even more confusing :P
[20:14] <Shirley> No, definitely don't want to repeat the strategy nightmare.
[20:14] <effeietsanders> anyway
[20:14] <effeietsanders> shall we head to the agenda?
[20:14] <Austin> Shirley: the project covers the roles of all organizations in the movement, and if you want I'd be happy to talk about it with you later, but we're now 15 minutes into a one-hour meeting with a set agenda.  :0
[20:14] <Shirley> Fair enough.
[20:14] <effeietsanders> 10 minutes per topic?
[20:15]  * effeietsanders hands Jon__ the whip
[20:15] <Theo10011> well its only 3 people I think 10 min. would be enough.
[20:15] <Jon__> I was interested to read Shirley's thoughts
[20:15] <Jon__> Our purpose is on our main page on meta
[20:16] <effeietsanders> I'm fairly confident Shirley will agree to hang around a bit longer :)
[20:16] <Jon__> We can come back to that at the end if we have time
[20:16] <effeietsanders> (he hangs in this channel 24/7)
[20:16] <Shirley> I'm also in #wikimedia.
[20:16] <Shirley> Yes.
[20:16] <effeietsanders> (or she)
[20:16] == aude [] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[20:16] <Jon__> The first item on the agenda is the reactions to the postings on meta, which have been disappointing
[20:16] <Jon__> hi aude
[20:17] <Austin> Hey Kate
[20:17] <aude> hi
[20:17] <effeietsanders> we knew this would be the toughest topic to respond to
[20:17] <lyzzy> disappointing because they were too less or because of their content?
[20:17] <effeietsanders> that is why we put it first
[20:17] <Jon__> Delphine sent out emails to foundation-l and internal-l which elicited a couple of responses, and a handful of people have contributed on wiki
[20:17] <effeietsanders> because it is so complicated
[20:17]  * aude lose power (it's windy here)
[20:17] <aude> may lose power
[20:17] <lyzzy> ack effeietsanders
[20:18] <effeietsanders> lyzzy: is that an "i agree" or a "no way" ?
[20:18] <lyzzy> take it as you like :P
[20:18] <effeietsanders> like you no matter what, so that doesnt help
[20:18] <effeietsanders> :P
[20:19] <lyzzy> it definitely _is_ complicated
[20:19] <lyzzy> but there were some reactions
[20:19] <lyzzy> not that much
[20:19] <Jon__> perhaps the best move would be for us to put on meta a draft charter
[20:19] <Jon__> a draft charter will be less complicated
[20:19] <Jon__> and we will need a draft charter to share in Berlin
[20:20] <effeietsanders> Jon__: didnt we agree to first discuss specific topics?
[20:20] <aude> charter of what? chapters agreement?
[20:20] <lyzzy> no, charter of the movement
[20:20] <Jon__> movement roles charter
[20:20] <aude> okay
[20:21] <effeietsanders> but maybe stick to the agenda: what exactly have we to discuss about the matrix?
[20:21] <effeietsanders> (lets add a "next steps" at the end)
[20:22] <Jon__> we are supposed to come up with a "draft of a 'charter' and recommendations"
[20:22] <lyzzy> what do we do with the handfull of reactions?
[20:22] <Jon__> I am not sure that we can do much with the handful of recommendations
[20:23] <effeietsanders> what we can learn is that the terminology is confusing
[20:23] <effeietsanders> whatever we write, we need a definition list
[20:23] <effeietsanders> even for the discussion pieces
[20:23] <lyzzy> yes. and it isn't too late to do that for this process
[20:23] <lyzzy> because we will have the same problems with the cgarter
[20:24] <effeietsanders> Jon__: can you add that perhaps to our beautiful action list? :)
[20:24] <Jon__> Theo raised the point that our definitions of groups was too vague, and suggested a classification.  we have that on the agenda after the charter
[20:24] <effeietsanders> I'd be happy to at least help out there
[20:24] <Theo10011>
[20:24] <Austin> One thing that did come out of the charter session was that we certainly needed definitions, but given that it's sort of the goal of the process, it's difficult to define them up front.
[20:25] <Jon__> Lodewijk, if you wish to do that, feel free
[20:25] <effeietsanders> Jon__: but I need help and some poking perhaps ;-)
[20:25] <Austin> I can add you to my poking list
[20:25] <Jon__> Austin is the poker  :-)
[20:25] <lyzzy> cool
[20:25] <effeietsanders> hence the action list request :P
[20:26] <lyzzy> do you see any need to merge the initial matrix with the second and the third table?
[20:26] <effeietsanders> if I can check there what's still open for me... that would help
[20:26] <Austin> Okay, let me consolidate that
[20:26] <effeietsanders> yeah, but there's definitions and definitions :P
[20:27] <Jan_eissfeldt> kibble: impressen fixed
[20:28] <Austin> This is slightly off-agenda, but since there are a few people present that were there: does anyone have a log of the last office hours?
[20:29] <Theo10011> ok, I am done with the strategy wiki.
[20:29] <Theo10011> what did I miss?
[20:29] <Austin> I've been checking meta, but they're still not posted.
[20:29] <Theo10011> Austin, what charter were you referring to?
[20:29] <Jon__> Back on topic, Austin, what do we need to do with the draft charter so that we can put it on meta this time next week?
[20:29] <Austin> The ultimate "deliverable" of this project is to come up with a charter.
[20:30] <Theo10011> is there a working version somewhere?
[20:30] <Austin> See
[20:30] <Austin> There's an early-early draft for a table of contents on the movement roles wiki.
[20:30] <effeietsanders> Jon__: ehm, when was that supposed to go on anyway?
[20:30] <Theo10011> idk where that is :(
[20:30] <effeietsanders> because I had the feeling that we still needed a few steps before that
[20:33] <Jon__> In Frankfurt we said we wanted to put the charter on meta by March 10.  Our next chat is the last one before that deadline.  
[20:33] <Theo10011> can I help?
[20:33] <Jon__> The other steps are not happening, or eliciting paltry responses.
[20:34] <Austin> Theo: almost everything is on meta, but there's a semi-private wiki with rough drafts, confidential interviews, and the like. The idea was that we would flesh out a table of contents there for a publication in March, but that's been going slower than we'd hoped.
[20:34] <effeietsanders> maybe then it would be better to get those things going?
[20:34] <Jon__> We should move towards getting the charter written
[20:34] <effeietsanders> because I personally dont believe in just getting a charter written - we need to get people to discuss the contents first
[20:34] <Jon__> That is the key deliverable
[20:34] <Theo10011> guys, my opinion is you're probably not going to get  a lot of response.
[20:35] <Theo10011> you need to start a working draft of the charter on meta
[20:35] <Theo10011> and keep announcing it as we go along
[20:35] <effeietsanders> if you face them with a written thing, there will be either no response, either just screeming
[20:35] <Theo10011> circulate it among internal-l and chapter representatives first.
[20:35] <Austin> Theo: that's the idea, yes.
[20:35] <effeietsanders> Austin: did anything happen at all on the new models?
[20:35] <lyzzy> and that was the idea with the matrix
[20:35] <effeietsanders> (see you are in that group too)
[20:36] <aude> +1 on circulating it
[20:36] <Austin> Galileo was tasked with leading that; I poked him on Wednesday, and just before the meeting he sent his apologies for the delay.
[20:37] <effeietsanders> yeah, but it was a whole group of five right?
[20:37] <Theo10011> k
[20:37] <Austin> I'll poke him again over the weekend and see if he has time; otherwise I'll poke the group and see what we can come up with.
[20:37] <Austin> I'll put that on my calendar for Sunday.
[20:37] <Jon__> Austin, how do you want us to contribute to the charter ... just edit the version on MR wiki?
[20:38] <Austin> That was the idea, of course
[20:38] <effeietsanders> ok nevermind - I am clearly alone that we first need to get those tough topics handled and warm people up
[20:38] <Austin> It's a wiki?edit!
[20:38] <Austin> But I think it may be time to transclude to meta, for better or for worse
[20:38] <Jon__> Great.  Let's edit!
[20:39] <Jon__> I asked Arne about that today, and he asked that we not move it to meta until after the next chat
[20:39] <Theo10011> Put it on Meta, I can keep track of it from there.
[20:39] <Theo10011> hmm
[20:39] <Jon__> He asked that we keep it on MR wiki until next Friday, when we can move it to meta
[20:39] <Theo10011> that would be the 4th. not much time left.
[20:39] <Jon__> Exactly
[20:40] <lyzzy> we should ask the mr-people to have a look at it first
[20:40] <effeietsanders> ok, for the MR-group members: the link is
[20:40] <Jon__> Theo, I thought you made a good point on groups
[20:40] <effeietsanders> and I am totally fine with doing the work on meta
[20:40] <lyzzy> you know: not everyone has a look at the recent changes on this wiki
[20:40] <effeietsanders> if we go to skip all the process we agreed on anyway, why not
[20:42] <Jon__> Can we move to the next item on the agenda
[20:42] <Austin> Well, "view history" is somewhat telling
[20:42] <Jon__> what does it tell you?
[20:42] <lyzzy> and what is happening with the charter draft now?
[20:42] <lyzzy> i didn't get it, sry
[20:43] <Jon__> I think what we agreed is that we all need to help edit the charter draft so that we can put it on meta
[20:43] <lyzzy> and announce it to mr-folk, internal and everywhere?
[20:44] <Jon__> once it is on meta, after our next chat, and hopefully before the target we set in Frankfurt
[20:44] <lyzzy> ok
[20:45] <Jon__> Austin, you said "view history" was somewhat telling ... what did it tell you
[20:45] <Jon__> ?
[20:46] <Austin> That there's only one name in the edit history, and I'm not sure we'll have a broadly acceptable charter as long as that's the case. :)
[20:47] <Jon__> Agreed.  So let's all edit.  Hopefully by this time next week we will have something to share, which will be well informed by all of the work on the roles matrix, etc.
[20:47] <lyzzy> Austin: that may be the case because people just didn't see that before
[20:47] <lyzzy> and that might be tha case for the mr-group, chapters and others as well
[20:48] <Jon__> Good point, Alice
[20:49] <Jon__> Austin, after this chat, could you remind everyone on the MR work group about our need to edit the charter draft?
[20:49] <lyzzy> so maybe it is a good time to give some hints to the interesting pages
[20:49] <Jon__> yes
[20:49] <Austin> I'll send yet another e-mail right after the meeting, yes.
[20:49] <Jon__> Great, thanks.
[20:50] <Jon__> Let's move to our last agenda item
[20:50] <Austin> I think we're all a bit frustrated, right now, for various--and probably all valid--reasons.
[20:50] <Austin> (Judging bu the 5 IM conversations I have going on right now, anyway.)
[20:51] <Austin> Let's just remember that we're all trying to accomplish the same goal, and assume good faith, and all of those cliches.
[20:51] <Theo10011> heh.
[20:52] <Austin> So yes, groups
[20:52] <Austin> (Sorry to interrupt)
[20:52] <Jon__> Suggestion ... can we cover the agenda item on groups .... and then bring the frustrations into the chat room to see if we can resolve any?
[20:52] <Austin> I'm on board with that
[20:53] <Theo10011> So let me take the lead on this.
[20:53] <Theo10011> I came up with certain classifications for groups that we may encounter.
[20:53] <Theo10011> the link is above if anyone wants to take a look.
[20:53] <Austin>
[20:53] <Theo10011> I wanted a working diagram of where each classification would fit in the group.
[20:53] <Austin> (And the talk page)
[20:54] <Theo10011> one discussion I've had about it already related to the usage of official group vs. unofficial.
[20:55] <Theo10011> who would be responsible for that recognition, I didn't think about legal implications at the time of formulation.
[20:55] <Theo10011> but they need to be considered in light of those.
[20:55] <Theo10011> does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
[20:56] <Theo10011> should the foundation be the sole entity responsible for recognition of official groups?
[20:56] <Austin> I think that's something that should be taken to the talk page (and you already have)
[20:56] <Austin> I certainly have my own personal opinion
[20:57] <Austin> But we could talk about it on IRC for another hours, and not all of us have that hour
[20:57] <Austin> -s
[20:58] <Theo10011> alright, lets reserve further discussion to the talk page then.
[20:58] <Austin> I'll be writing something there, and I hope everyone else here will at least take a look
[20:58] <Jon__> Will look out for it
[21:00] <Theo10011> Besides that I'm mostly on Meta, feel free to use me for any other work.
[21:02] <Jon__> Thanks, Theo.  This will illuminate a dimension that we've been foggy on
[21:04] <Jon__> I think we have covered the items on this week's agenda ...
[21:04] <Jon__> And we have a draft agenda for next week ...
[21:05] <Jon__> Can we air any other issues?
[21:06]  * aude reading meta wiki pages
[21:06] <Theo10011> aude any thoughts on the classification system?
[21:06] <aude> we're discussing the idea of having individual chapters like WM NYC and WM DC
[21:07] <Theo10011> sub-national chapters.
[21:07] <aude> but, we also want an (probably informal) US chapters council to help in areas that we can work together
[21:07] <Jon__> that is the item called "new models" that Galio is working on
[21:07] <aude> not yet sure how that will work
[21:07] <Jon__> we developed some ideas in Frankfurt
[21:07] <aude> link?
[21:07] <Jon__> Galio and his team will put them up on the wiki for comment
[21:08] <Jon__>
[21:08] <aude> thanks
[21:08] <aude> how does the movement roles relate to the chapters fundraising agreement? do you get any input?
[21:09] <effeietsanders> aude: unfortunately those are two similar discussions happening in parallel
[21:09] <aude> hrm...
[21:10] <Austin> What he said, yes
[21:10] <Jon__> they are linked.  Barry Newstead is working on both issues at the same time
[21:10] <aude> i think pharos and i have some real concerns...
[21:10] <Austin> They should be related, but they're carefully segregated.
[21:10]  * effeietsanders put his thoughts on email - hopefully that comes better across than via irc where nothing gets across clearly
[21:10] <aude> there are stages in a chapters development
[21:10] <aude> 1) informal group, but recognized; we get grants 2) we become a chapter, get grants and develop
[21:11] <aude> 3) after 1-2 years we are developed enough with capacity to run our fundraiser
[21:11] <aude> and the US chapters council would help facilitate running the fundraiser, as there probably are shared, redundant tasks
[21:11] <effeietsanders> anyway, a very productive meeting
[21:11] <effeietsanders> good night
[21:11] == effeietsanders [~eia@wikimedia/effeietsanders] has left #wikimedia-roles []
[21:12] <Theo10011> aude: the US would have to be unique in the larger scheme of things.
[21:12] <Theo10011> the approach EU chapters use can't be used in the US.
[21:12] <aude> not sure if such stages of a chapters growth are incorporated into the movement roles
[21:12] <aude> Theo10011: yes, we need a different structure
[21:13] <aude> canada would be very similar to us
[21:14] <Jon__> aude is that "US" or us as in we?
[21:14] <Theo10011> both would imply the same.
[21:14] <aude> US = United states
[21:14] <Jon__> thx
[21:15] <aude> the other issue is the rate of growth of chapters, and the fundraising agreement imposes serious caps
[21:15] <aude> whereas WMF can grow unlimited
[21:15] <aude> some chapters will grow programatically faster
[21:15] <aude> and when they get to stage 3, they may very well be beyond needing or able to handle $50,000 in a year
[21:16] <Theo10011> Personally I think those are very specific things aude, considering the status the project that would be addressed at a later juncture, no?
[21:17] <aude> i'm not sure where WMF gets guidance on coming up with these things?
[21:17] <Jon__> will it not get some guidance at the meetings in Berlin?
[21:19] <Jon__> the work we are doing and the discussion on chapter funding will both come up and be impossible to segregate, surely?
[21:19]  * aude doesn't know
[21:19] <aude> i see movement roles as broader, but ...
[21:19] <Jon__> it definitely should be much broader
[21:20] <Jon__> I just think that the two conversations will influence each other in Berlin
[21:20] <aude> but make sure you understand the way subnational chapters may work here and whatever you come up with works for us
[21:21] <aude> and works for everyone
[21:21] == Theo10011_ [~Theo@] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[21:21] <Jon__> point taken
[21:21] <Jon__> quick procedural point ... we are now >20 minutes over the hour ... can we wrap, or are there any other topics that we should cover?
[21:22] <aude> Jon__: under participants, it doesn't say much about who everyone is
[21:22] == Theo10011 [~Theo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[21:22] <aude> can you link each name to your user page on meta wiki? please?
[21:22] == Theo10011_ has changed nick to Theo10011
[21:22] <Austin> I think we should take all of the points brought up tonight on those various talk pages, but stress that... guys... please look at the talk pages.
[21:22]  * aude has reading to do!
[21:23] <Jon__>
[21:23] <Austin> And yes, feel free to ask me for help on back reading. :)
[21:23] <Austin> That goes for everyone.
[21:23] <Theo10011> thanks.
[21:23] <aude> thanks
[21:23] <Jon__> aude, the page with the links is
[21:24] <aude> i was looking at the meeting notes
[21:24] <aude> Jon__: your a facilitator then?
[21:25] <Jon__> not really, but I fall into that role occasionally ... I'm an advisor with nonprofits, usually global
[21:25] <aude> hired on behalf of WMF?
[21:26] <Jon__> yes.  and Austin is hired for his experience and for facilitation
[21:26] <aude> hmm...
[21:26] <Jon__> thoughts?
[21:27] <aude> it appears that Austin and you are volunteers, on the wiki
[21:27] <aude> just for transparency, make it clear
[21:28] <Jon__> no problem
[21:28]  * aude may have missed a press release or announcement
[21:28] <Theo10011> aude I think it was announced on the mailing list with the original announcement.
[21:28] <aude> i'll do more reading and can give better input next week
[21:28] <Theo10011> about the steering committee and Jon's involvement.
[21:29] <aude> okay
[21:29] <aude> is there a special mailing list for this too?
[21:30] <Jon__> yes.  the movement roles list
[21:30] <aude> okay
[21:31]  * aude and wikimedia dc is thinking much more like a chapter now, but weren't back in october
[21:31] <aude> we'll be doing formal steps to become a chapter after March 22
[21:31] <Jon__> if you would like to join the list, I can ask Arne
[21:31] <Jon__> aude, will you be in Berlin?
[21:31] <aude> okay, thanks
[21:31] <aude> won't be in berlin, as we're not a chapter yet
[21:32] <Jon__> aha.  and can I surmise that your name is Kate and you are from DC?
[21:32] <aude> pharos (richard) and jeremyb will be there
[21:32] <Theo10011> Katie, right?
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[21:32] <aude> Katie (or Kate, nickname) works
[21:32] <Theo10011> actually I'm not sure if I would be in DC either, I am not affiliated with any chapter either.
[21:33] <Theo10011> *Berlin
[21:33] <Austin> That was annoying
[21:33] <Theo10011> pfftt.
[21:33] <Jon__> Hi Kate
[21:34] <Jon__> I have got to sign off, folks
[21:34] <Jon__> Good night from London
[21:34] <aude> thanks for the discussion
[21:34] <Theo10011> g-night Jon.
[21:34] <Austin> Night, Jon
[21:34] <Theo10011> thanks again.
[21:34] <aude> goodnight
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