Requests for new languages/Wikinews Latina

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Latin Wikinews[edit]

main page Requests for new languages (Wikinews Latina)
submitted verification final decision
Process-stop.svg This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page. (See an unofficial analysis of this request.)

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

The language proposal policy requires that a language have living native communities to serve as the wiki's audience and editing community. Latin is classified by ISO 639-3 as "ancient", which means that it has no native communities. Unfortunately, this request does not meet the prerequisites for eligibility. —Pathoschild 21:04:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposal summary
  • Language details: Latin (latina, ISO 639-2 la)
  • Editing community: Esteban97 (P)
    List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your
    name if you are a native speaker of this language.
  • Relevant pages: development wiki project
  • External links:
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

Latin is a very old language only talked in Vatican city, with nearly 2000 speakers, this language is now dead, because there are not any native Latin speakers.

There do already exist Latina WikiMedia-Projects, e.g. the Latin Wikipedia with now nearly 20.000 articles and a wiktionary with nearly 5.000 articles. So there will be a future for this new Latin Project. --Esteban97 06 June 2008 (UTC)

Arguments in favour[edit]

  • Support. Latin is a very important language and when more people learn it, they will understand more other languages. --Esteban97 06:33, 07 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. Latin is a really important language, English, Nederland, Swed, Spanish, French, Italian, Serbian, Monegascan, Catalan, aragon, Russian and many other languages descend from Latin. If we have more issues with latin, it will be more understanded and people will comprehend more other languages --Cradel 18:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Not that it would be important in the context of this discussion, but what gave you the idea that Slavic languages such as Russia descent from Latin? --Johannes Rohr 07:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
      • Loanwords? --OosWesThoesBes 10:18, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
        • For example word 'vid' in Russian and Latin the same and means 'view'.Orange-kun 16:30, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support --Johney 15:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
this isn't a vote. give arguments.
  • Support. Unlike other languages, like Nahuatl, Middle Dutch or Ancient Egyptian, Latin is a dead and living language. It is still taught in many schools. --OosWesThoesBes 07:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Latin is official language in Vatican City, so it isn't an ancient language or a dead language. --Admiral 10:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
    Not many people are born in Vatican City; and besides, Latin is official language of the Holy See, but the official language of Vatican City is actually Italian. John Vandenberg 12:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Latin for a long time has been the main language in politics. It was also the language in which the first newspapers were issued. We should continue this great tradition.--Nxx 14:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Support There's a Latin news program in a television station in Finland. --RekishiEJ 13:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Support There are too Ephemeris - editing news is just one amidst numerous manners of reviving the most widespread ever language of Europe and since others have already initiated it, the proposal is nothing original and I support it. Bogorm 08:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
    This is starting to be documented at w:la:Ephemeris. --John Vandenberg 22:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Arguments in counter[edit]

  • Oppose. the current policy only allow wikisource in historical languages. the request must be reject.
It is for Language committee members to close the discussion. Latin is an existing Wikipedia that is doing well. As long as nobody of the LC pronounces on the proposal, it can be discussed. I could have closed the discussion and did not. So please come up with other arguments then what the policy states.. that would make the discussion more interesting. GerardM 21:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
language subcommittee is now competent in the request of new projects. for example you has rejected the wikinews in simple english (that has its own wikipedia, of course).
it is talking about the reject of the latin wikinews project, not about the wikipedia.
accordying to the new policy not new project in dead language is allowed, only wikisource.
  • Oppose - Wikinews is about news and as such articles have to be written promptly in response to current events. I don't believe that there will be sufficient interest in writing (and reading) news articles in Latin to merit opening a Latin Wikinews. The English Wikinews often struggles to have more than half a dozen new articles a day, it must be reasonable to suggest that a Latin Wikinews would have have even less. Adambro 21:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose Wikinews is a website that deals with current events. I think that people will not have enough interest to write current event in a language that died 2000 years ago.Anonymous101 05:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose Dead languages don't make current news. --Alison Wheeler 13:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
On the contrary, they do - Ephemeris! Bogorm 08:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Opppose. While there may be an audience for Latin Wikinews, but it is likely to be quite small in comparison with the other Wikinews. Also, this proposal has not explained who is going to be the writers, and why they would write news in Latin rather than their own language. If a serious Wikinews contributor who was already working on other Latin project, was to explain that they will champion this project, I would reconsider. Otherwise I suggest that people familiar with Latin help the existing Latin projects which are not doing very well, such as Latin Wikisource, Latin Wikibooks, and Latin Wikiquote. John Vandenberg 07:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose Although the Latin Wikipedia has shown its strength, I don't think a News Spin-off will flourish. --Jeroen 02:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose The current policy doesn't allow new projects (except wikisource) to be created in dead languages.--ZaDiak 20:14, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Exactly. it has no sense discuss if the policy doesn't allow it. Then it must be rejected.
Well Latin is not a dead language.--Nxx 15:23, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
if it hasn't native speaker, it's dead!!!.
Do you know any artificial language that has native speakers? Also how can be dead language in which are published newspapers, books, issued dictionaries etc?--Nxx 13:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
no longer native speakers = dead, no native speakers ever = artificial. it's simple, langcom require native community to accept language projects. Many people disagree to current policy. me, too, but it's the policy.
Do you know any artificial language that has native speakers? Esperanto. Anthony 23:21, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

General discussion[edit]

There are issues with languages like Latin.. this needs discussion. Also it was suggested that the localisation for Latin was done.. Currently not even the most relevant messages have been localised. The requirement is 100% for the MediaWiki core and 100% for the extensions used by the WMF. Thanks, GerardM 23:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Votes are ignored according to the policy. Please provide arguments. --OosWesThoesBes 06:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Latin is still taght in many schools, many scientists talk it. You can't say that Latin (though it died 2000 years ago) don't make current news, if not ther won't be any Latin Wikipedia, beacause wikipedia also have news and people write them and read them. This needs discusion. But besides, Latin is a language that still is used, in vatican city they use it for holy ceremonies and, please, Latin is used for researching 40% of the discoveries (that turn on news) need to be investigated and inquired in Latin. --Esteban97 16:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Some issues about old languages[edit]

  • Well the main problem with old languages is that they have no words for modern inventions, political terms etc, so they should be invented. This is not the case of Latin, this language has all words one could need for modern Wikipedia, Latin dictionaries contain words even for vacuum cleaners and microwave ovens. Latin radio stations discuss modern political topics.
  • Contrary, small living languages with native speakers can experience the same problems. One can even find than it is difficult sometimes explain some complicated mathematical topic in Ukrainian, not to say for example Abkhaz, Chuvash or Udmurt languages, so the terms sometimes invented 'on air'.--Nxx 19:19, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
  • We don't need to worry about the problem of neologism; Latin is still alive since Latin dictionaries have words about modern and postmodern topics. --RekishiEJ 13:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)