Jump to content

Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Algero-Moroccan Arabic

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki

Algero-moroccan arabic Wikipedia

submitted verification final decision
This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

Per the wish of the requester, plus lack of volunteers and no sources as to whether this actually constitutes one language. Jon Harald Søby 19:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Proposal summary
  • Language details: Algerian Arabic and Moroccan arabic (Dardja, <language code missing>)
  • Editing community: Toira (NP)
    List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your
    name if you are a native speaker of this language.
  • Relevant pages:
  • External links:
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

Arguments in favour

  • I support this request because I am for the promotion of literacy in and promotion of local varieties of Arabic. Modern Standard Arabic, the variety used in the Arabic Wikipedia, is based on the language used in the Qur'aan, spoken today by nobody. It could be said to be a situation similar to Chinese, except that Arabic actually uses a largely phonetic writing system. The Qur'aan was written in the 7th century. Since then, Arabic varieties have diverged greatly. The most divergent varieties are those of North Africa, known collectively as "derja", Hassaniyya, usually considered a separate language and spoken mostly in Mauritania and Western Sahara, and the "peripheral" Arabic varieties of Central Asia and Cyprus. I would not support a Wikipedia exclusively for Alergian and Moroccan varieties, though -- this should be broadened to a pan-derja request. While spoken intelligibility between, say, Libyan and Moroccan arabic may be difficult, all Derja speakers should be able to understand each other if they write the languagei n Arabic script. --Node ue 02:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This writer, obviously a Berber or Zionist and pushing against the tide of Arab unity, exposes his/her stupidity by saying no one speaks classical/literary arabic; it is spoken by many tens of millions of (traditionally or formally) educated Arabs, as well as by many millions of non-Arab Muslims! And no knowledgeable person considers Hassaniya a separate language; it is simply a dialect of Maghrebi Arabic. As for west Tunisian- eastern Algerian communication, they are closer than west Algerian to east Algerian! The same applies to west Libyan and both E. Algerian and Tunisian. This so-called "Bahraini" (actually "Amazighi?", needs to study before he/she spouts such iqlimiyya in the hope of splitting the maghreb. What good would "literacy" in 6 or 7 sub-dialects and dialects do? Must we then start producing literature in each of them? Teaching them in the schools? Algeria alone might have 4 or 5 varieties. So there would need to be scientific journals, elementary school texts, etc., written in each of these dialects? The fact that the writer neglected to include any mashreqi dialects shows his Berber separatist agenda! The Yemeni, Najdi, Lebanese, Iraqi, Egyptian, and Syrian dialects are just as distinct from one another as are the Maghrebi ones, perhaps even more so! In the 1800's European colonial powers tried this scheme in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Algeria. It failed then, and will always fail!

       Ould el-Shinqiti 040747

= Support


I support this request, because Algerian Arabic and Moroccan Arabic is very different from Modern Standard Arabic, Classical Arabic and the other arabic dialects, and the majority of Arabs can't speak and understand Moroccan Arabic.

Moroccan Vocabulary is different too, eg:

  • English: Now(Moroccan Arabic: Daba دابا) (Al'aan الآن)
  • English: Tea(Moroccan Arabic: Atai أتاي) (Modern Standard Arabic: Shai شاي)
  • English: I'm going(Moroccan Arabic: Ghadee غادي) (Modern Standard Arabic: Rayh رايح)
  • English: Kitchen(Moroccan Arabic: Cozeena كوزينا) (Modern Standard Arabic: Matbakh مطبخ)

Abu Amal Bahraini 10:54, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against


General comments

  • I did not name this request "maghrebi arabic" but "Algero-moroccan arabic" because I can speak algerian arabic and understand moroccan arabic (the latter 70-80%), my understanding of spoken libyan and tunisian arabic is about 30%. I have to precise that I never watch egyptian and lebanese movies, that's explains why I have difficulties communicating with libyans and tunisians.

    The script to be used should be discussed, I can write in arabic but it is a bit difficult to have a flowrishing wikipedia in that script, especially for a small one like this. I propose to use the Berber Latin alphabet since algero-moroccan arabic has only 4 vowels as in berber (a-i-u-short a or e-) while standard arabic has 6 (a-i-u short a-i-u), this is just a proposition, if the community decides to use the arabic script I would'n mind using it. unsigned by Toira 12:51, 26 January 2007.

    May be it will be better to create a separate wiki for each country (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia) to avoid controversy about dialects? BTW, why you propose to unite exactly Algerian and Moroccan dialects in one wiki (not Algerian and Tunisian for example)? Don Alessandro 19:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Algerian arabic" as one diaclect does not exist, west algerians speak exactly the same dialect as moroccans, however, I have noticed from the various dialiects across north africa that moroccans and algerians can easily communicate with each other, but not algerian with tunisian, or tunisian with moroccan, that's why I have grouped the various dialects of algeria and morocco in one single proposal.Toira 23:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Concerning the script to be used, I changed my mind, I think it's better to use the arabic script, we can take articles from the arabic wiki and modify them.Toira 23:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to Ethnologue, there are two Algerian Arabics (Saharan Algerian Arabic, aao and Algerian Arabic, arg) and one Moroccan Arabic (ary, not counting Judeo-Moroccan Arabic, aju). Are all of these similar enough to be counted as a single language? (I know Ethnologue is not always correct.) If so, could you produce any academic, written sources to that, so that we may submit a change request to ISO 639-3? Jon Harald Søby 17:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Northwest African Arabic


Please, take a look at Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Northwest African Arabic and discuss there about the possibility to create Northwest African Arabic (Maghrebi) Wikipedia. --Millosh 23:13, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]