Talk:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Egyptian Arabic

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Wikipedia Egyptian Arabic is a proposal aiming at presenting the information in a language that is understood, written and spoken by Millions.

I find Egyptian Arabic sufficiently different to be considered an independent language, illiteracy should not be a reason for limiting the usage of written language to one style, may be it merits the opposite --Ghaly 08:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC).[reply]

  • The "You find" is not acceptable by me or by any one. Egyptian Arabic is a derivative from Arabic. The Media and academics recognize it as a dialect not a language. I can tell that you know for sure how most Egyptian would laugh if they set eyes on that Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia. Hallo, Comrade. You personally say "Egyptian Arabic". It is Arabic. I am sure that the majority of Egyptians and foreigners are recognizing Egyptian Arabic as a dialect. Egyptian Arabic does not commit to the grammar of Arabic, so it falls in a much lower category called "slang" عامية.--Mohammed Ahmed 18:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the ISO finds that Egyptian Arabic sufficiently different to mark it as a language, I am equally sure that you are wrong. You have your opinion, ISO is the International Standards Body, they take long to express such an opinion.. but it is then considered to be of a standard value.. GerardM 22:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Gerard, the ISO accepted almost wholesale the linguistic classifications of SIL. SIL catalogues thousands of languages, with no particular standard about what separates a language from a dialect or vice versa. Ask any scientist, they will tell you that Moroccan Arabic and Algerian Arabic are dialects of the same language. I mean, come on, they even say that Yinglish is a language. Yinglish is obviously not a language, even though it has an ISO code. It is a set of Yiddish and Hebrew words used by some English speakers, including both Jewish people and Goyim (gentiles). When you have perhaps 300 words that are used, but no differences in grammar, style, or anything else, and the majority of words in use are 100% identical to English, I do not think an argument could be made that Yinglish is a separate language, ask any scientist. The claim is patently ridiculous, yet Yinglish has its own ISO 639-3 code... There has been discussion of this: [1]. But basically, I think that Yinglish is a good case to prove that we cannot rely solely on the criteria of having an ISO code to prove the validity of a language variety for a separate WP. I speak Yinglish natively, but at present I am not inclined to start a Yinglish Wikipedia (maybe later). --129.219.169.158 18:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ISO defines Arabic as a Macrolanguage, saying that those are "varieties of Arabic" with a "perceived common linguistic identity". Wither we agree that those varieties are "spoken Arabic languages" or "spoken Arabic dialects", they remain spoken, with only Standard Arabic as the only written and pan Arabic spoken language. If all Egyptians understand both, and they do, what is the real benefit of yet-another-wikipedia(s)? --Khaled Hosny 22:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And about ISO being the "International Standards Body", they have an entry for Sa`idi (Upper Egyptian) Arabic. If you told an Egyptian that Sa`idi is a different language from Cairene Arabic which in turn is different from Arabic language, i.e. Egypt has at least 3 languages, he will ROFL, giving us a hint about how much accurate is the "International Standards Body". --Khaled Hosny 22:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


    • I have to agree with GerardM that ISO is the "International Standards Body" and agreeing with certain standard that is acceptable worldwide is nothing wrong , if there is enough Sa`idi wikipedians to merit starting a new wikipedia Sa'idi then that will gain my support as well , there is nothing wrong in writing in the language and the style anyone prefers, trying to offer one option only is going only to limit the number of wikipedians who are willing to share their knowledge with others.

There is a massive difference between a Dialect [1] and an Accent [2] . I am sure that Sa`idi and Masry are not simply accents.

Egyptians enjoyed being tolerant to others for many centuries ,why would an Egyptian roll on the floor laughing on hearing an opinion , this doesn't sound like a thing Egyptians would normally do as it might be considered insulting to the person who expressed that idea and Egyptians in general tend to be polite and tolerant. The likely reaction would be asking where this opinion came from and what it was based upon, then an answer would be formulated.

Claiming to know everyone else's opinion, ridiculing others’ remarks and the aggressiveness in expressing opinions has been repeated in relation to this proposal many times. The gentle remarks that this should not be a standard practice obviously have not been taken in, and this is very frustrating to the wikipedians who are trying to maintain a civil discussion.

In case there is a misunderstanding of the rules of discussion in English here is the link to rules of discussion in Classical Arabic as it might clarify matters better. Some of these rules are included in how to write on wikipedia Masry

Please express your opinions without insulting or ridiculing anyone. Ghaly 10:50, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know where is the insult? and they will ROFL because it is a very strange idea that no Egyptian would think about (and if you know Egyptians, they usually laugh in such situations). --Khaled Hosny 14:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
the insult is what u have just repeated now...! that also show why u, and perhaps any other opposer do oppose the project. One last pharaoh 16:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Refrences

  1. ↑ Wikipedia English / Dialect
  2. ↑ Wikipedia English / Accent


The first sentence about Egyptian Arabic says "Egyptian Arabic (Masry) as a language is spoken by more than 70 million people in Egypt and other countries"

This is not true! People in Sinai speak a different dialect. People in the whole upper Egypt speak a different dialect. People in Aswan speak different. People in the Oasis speak different Dialect. This claimed Egyptian Arabic is the dialect of people in Cairo only, the dialect of cinema and dialect of singers. Egyptians in other parts may understand it when they hear it. But they won't be able to understand it when it is written. Where is the proof than more than 70 million speak it???

please delete this section Egypt is an Arabic countery

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