Wikimania 2011/Bids/Public meeting log/2010-04-03

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This meeting took place on April 3rd 2010, between 17:00 and 19:00 UTC. All times in this log are UTC.

Apr 03 16:57:26 <derp> From what i know from last time, it's not moderated, more of a live Q&A
Apr 03 16:58:10 <Harelc> tomer, Ijon, Deror and I are here to represent the haifa bid
Apr 03 16:58:54 * derp is representing Montréal :)
Apr 03 16:59:17 <Harelc> and DrorK-IL too...
Apr 03 16:59:20 * derp pokes Coren
Apr 03 16:59:29 <Pharos> too many drors!
Apr 03 17:00:03 <DrorK-IL> I spell my name without an "e"
Apr 03 17:00:10 <Pharos> dear friends at WM IL, we can barely handle one Dror
Apr 03 17:00:17 <jowen> are there any other jury members here beside me?
Apr 03 17:00:18 <Pharos> please consider downsizing
Apr 03 17:00:26 * derp hugs jowen
Apr 03 17:00:31 <DrorK-IL> Pharos= you can say that again :-)
Apr 03 17:00:39 <tomer> <Pharos>, so are we.
Apr 03 17:00:39 <Pharos> same beivrit, no?
Apr 03 17:00:50 <Ijon> We'll do our best to prevent them from speaking at the same time, thereby preserving the possibility that, like Clark Kent and Superman, they are one and the same.
Apr 03 17:01:00 <DrorK-IL> Pharos= yes, but we have differences about the English transcription
Apr 03 17:01:55 <derp-MTL> lol
Apr 03 17:01:58 <derp-MTL> stalkers!
Apr 03 17:02:05 <Tomer-il> :)
Apr 03 17:02:16 <derp-MTL> I want to say Good luck!
Apr 03 17:03:05 <derp-MTL> sigh
Apr 03 17:03:07 <derp-MTL> Coren is asleep
Apr 03 17:03:08 <derp-MTL> ;P
Apr 03 17:03:23 <jowen> As this is an open session does anyone want to ask the teams who are here questions?
Apr 03 17:03:27 <eiaway> the meeting was going to be here right?
Apr 03 17:03:41 <Pharos> I'm representing NYC
Apr 03 17:03:47 <jowen> I believe we have everyone except Toronto represented
Apr 03 17:03:49 <Pharos> think I'll be the only one today
Apr 03 17:03:58 * derp-MTL is representing Montréal :)
Apr 03 17:04:14 <derp-MTL> Pharos, please add -NYC to your nick :)
Apr 03 17:04:28 * Tomer-il already understands who is representing who
Apr 03 17:04:29 <derp-MTL> So we can easily identify wich city you represent
Apr 03 17:04:36 <eia> ok, *question* for the Haifa team. Do you think there will be any risks involved regarding terrorism, unrest etc, resulting in cancelling the event? Do you have any backup plans?
Apr 03 17:05:04 <eia> (assuming I can just shoot questions, sorry if that is not allowed :) )
2pr 03 17:05:34 <DrorK-IL> I could answer that, if the moderator approves
Apr 03 17:05:41 <jowen> I think it is fine for people to take turns asking questions.  As long as the questions are useful and respectful. :-)
Apr 03 17:06:04 <DrorK-IL> Okay, let me answer this
Apr 03 17:06:18 <DrorK-IL> There is always a force majeure risk, we cannot help that
Apr 03 17:06:35 <DrorK-IL> It can be a war, a pandemic, and earthquake etc.
Apr 03 17:06:45 <DrorK-IL> Each place has its own special risks
Apr 03 17:07:23 <DrorK-IL> As for day-to-day security - in the past few years Haifa is one of the calmest places in the region
Apr 03 17:08:09 <DrorK-IL> I cannot recall a special security-related event in Haifa or its surroundings in the past few years
Apr 03 17:08:25 <DrorK-IL> And we have no reason to expect a change
Apr 03 17:09:26 <eia> but do you have any backup plans /if/ there would be another IL-Palestine conflict and you would have to cancel? Would you be able to get your money back at least etc?
Apr 03 17:09:33 <Ijon-IL> actually,
Apr 03 17:09:33 <Ijon-IL> we have fewer security concerns than one might think. This is for two reasons: (1) The crime rate in Haifa is very low. (2) Security measures in public places have been in place for many years, and are put in place by national, municipal, and venue authorities.
Apr 03 17:09:44 <Ijon-IL> he venue has long experience in providing the appropriate security measures for international conventions and large public events (it has hosted, for the past 25 years, the Haifa International Film Festival, attended by large crowds).
Apr 03 17:09:49 <Ijon-IL> Nevertheless, we plan to station additional security personnel at the venue and with the tours and other activities, for extra confidence.
Apr 03 17:09:59 <DrorK-IL> ljon, let me address eia response
Apr 03 17:10:04 <eia> (I am not so much talking aobut personal safety, but mainly what happens if you have to cancel, budget wise)
Apr 03 17:10:09 <Ijon-IL> That's as far as on-site security is concerned, regarding the risk of terrorism, etc.
Apr 03 17:10:17 <Ijon-IL> ok
Apr 03 17:10:28 <DrorK-IL> In case of such force-majeure event
Apr 03 17:10:50 <DrorK-IL> We will inform the Foundation as soon as possible
Apr 03 17:11:20 <DrorK-IL> As for the money problem - such a situation is subject to special compensation rules
Apr 03 17:11:43 <DrorK-IL> usually detemined when peace and order are restored
Apr 03 17:12:15 <Teemu5> is the local chapter behind the bid?
Apr 03 17:12:25 <Deror-IL> Yes
Apr 03 17:12:34 <Deror-IL> All bid team is local chapter members
Apr 03 17:12:59 <Tomer-il> DrorK, did you finish?
Apr 03 17:13:07 <DrorK-IL> yes :-)
Apr 03 17:13:12 <Tomer-il> I would like to add something on a more personal note
Apr 03 17:13:48 <Tomer-il> I used to travel a lot on behalf of my company.
Apr 03 17:14:01 <Teemu5> is there "official" decision by the chapter to do the bid?
Apr 03 17:14:12 <Ldorfman-IL> Teemu5, to your question, the bid team IS indeed part of the local chapter.
Apr 03 17:14:23 <Tomer-il> I found out that there is some misconception regarding the life in Israel.
Apr 03 17:14:25 <derp-MTL> I'm sorry, what are those characters that you did Teemu5?
Apr 03 17:14:53 <Deror-IL> teemu - Yes
Apr 03 17:15:20 <Tomer-il> Israel is very safe. We walk in the streets the very same way as anyone other (I've visited all the cities that bid, i know :) )
Apr 03 17:15:30 <Ijon-IL> teemu -- and three members of the WMIL board are here too :)
Apr 03 17:16:01 <Tomer-il> Nothing can happen here that should cause us to cancel an event that is planned to be held at Haifa
Apr 03 17:16:02 <DrorK-IL> The bid was approved by the board as a chapter's project
Apr 03 17:16:14 <Ijon-IL> But getting back to the question of money --
Apr 03 17:16:19 <Ijon-IL> We are looking into insurance options to avoid losing too much money in such a scenario.  Since it is highly unlikely, we expect to be able to secure large coverage at a reasonable premium.
Apr 03 17:17:10 <DrorK-IL> We also have an official status as a registered "verein", so we can apply to special state compensations
Apr 03 17:17:24 <DrorK-IL> Hopefully we won't need to use this priviledge
Apr 03 17:17:46 <Ijon-IL> When DrorK says "verein", he means NGO.
Apr 03 17:18:34 <eia> Tomer-il: nothing?
Apr 03 17:18:35 <Harel-il> in addition, people abroad might buy travel insurance that might compensate them for the flight ticket in such an event
Apr 03 17:19:11 <Tomer-il> <eia>: i'm sorry, I didn't understand the question
Apr 03 17:19:59 <Harel-il> in such an event, for services not rendered, such as catering, tours and transportation, there will be a low cancellation fee, if any
Apr 03 17:20:07 <eia> Tomer-il: If I'm correct, a while ago WMIL had to cancel an event as well because of a military conflict right?
Apr 03 17:20:21 <Deror-IL> No
Apr 03 17:20:27 <Tomer-il> no
Apr 03 17:20:33 <eia> (or maybe postpone)
Apr 03 17:20:37 <DrorK-IL> eia: do you remember which event?
Apr 03 17:20:49 <Ijon-IL> yes, we postponed the Wikipedia Academy, while still in the planning stage, by two months.
Apr 03 17:21:02 <Ijon-IL> Because of the conflict in Gaza.
Apr 03 17:21:05 <jowen> Can you tell us how many other events WM-il has done in the past?  Also how you plan to organize the local team in the event we pick your bid?
Apr 03 17:21:09 <DrorK-IL> ah, yes, this was not due to security
Apr 03 17:21:26 <jowen> I would actually like each team to maybe answer that question
Apr 03 17:21:45 <Ijon-IL> (I co-organized the Wikipedia Academy in 2009).  Since it was still in the planning stage at the time, we only had to reschedule with the speakers, as the public had not been invited yet, and the venue not yet committed to.
Apr 03 17:21:54 <eia> Ijon-IL: indeed, I referred to that. With Wikimania postponing would come down to canceling of course...
Apr 03 17:22:07 <DrorK-IL> eia: definitely not
Apr 03 17:22:35 <DrorK-IL> the decision regarding Wikipedia Academy 2009 was done after realizing there will be no damage
Apr 03 17:23:25 <DrorK-IL> And since many organizers wanted to stand by if civil relief asks for volunteers
Apr 03 17:23:45 <DrorK-IL> But we have no plans to use this policy in case of Wikimania
Apr 03 17:25:52 <Tomer-il> It is important to remember that this was an internal decision. We could have organized the event, there should have been no problem with that (especially with regard to guests security).
Apr 03 17:26:11 <jowen> I would like to move on if possible.  If there was an instance either man made or natural disaster in any of the locations for Wikimania I am sure the Community would rally and support whatever is in the best interest of the conference, whether moving the conference or canceling.  This could happen anywhere and I think WM-IL has done a very nice job planning for this.  Probably more so than any other bidding team.
Apr 03 17:26:25 <Teemu5> how many of the bid team memebers leave/work/study in Haifa?
Apr 03 17:26:52 <Deror-IL> Two of the team work and live in Haifa
Apr 03 17:27:17 <Deror-IL> But the rest live in Tel Aviv - 50 minutes by car (90 km away) - so there is no problem.
Apr 03 17:27:31 <Deror-IL> Israel is rather small and there  is no problem to attend meetings in Haifa
Apr 03 17:27:56 <Teemu5> I agree with jowen.
Apr 03 17:28:43 * derp-MTL corrects the font
Apr 03 17:29:02 <Ijon-IL> next?
Apr 03 17:29:10 <jowen> Maybe some questions for NYC or MTL?
Apr 03 17:29:40 <jowen> MTL what wikimedia events have you supported in the past?
Apr 03 17:30:13 <Teemu5> NYC/MTL do you have chapters behind the bids?
Apr 03 17:30:31 <derp-MTL> Teemu5, we're a young starting local chapter for Québec.
Apr 03 17:30:34 <Pharos> NYC does
Apr 03 17:30:55 <derp-MTL> But as Coren said earlier in the last meeting there is a starting community for the french editors of Wikipédia
Apr 03 17:31:07 <Pharos> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_New_York_City
Apr 03 17:31:52 <derp-MTL> We have http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikim%C3%A9dia_Qu%C3%A9bec/fr
Apr 03 17:32:00 <derp-MTL> but it's in french, translation is in progress
Apr 03 17:32:44 <jowen> MTL-does your community have regular meet-ups? If yes, has this bid been discussed during a meet-up?  Is the location community fully behind and supporting this bid?  How many members are in your location community that you could recruit?
Apr 03 17:32:45 <eia> derp-MTL: is that a chapter to organize wikimania or the other way around?
Apr 03 17:33:16 <Teemu5> derp-MTL and Pharos: I personally think this is really important, because there are many chapters now found and a situation where there is a local Chapter and a Wikimania bid team "competing" is not good.
Apr 03 17:33:26 * derp-MTL pokes Coren
Apr 03 17:33:37 <derp-MTL> Coren will answer it.
Apr 03 17:33:41 <Coren> I'm here now.  Please accept my apologies; timezone miscalculation.
Apr 03 17:33:50 <Coren> Can you give me a minute to read back?
Apr 03 17:34:05 <Pharos> we're certainly not competeing in NYC; the chapter is fully behind the bid
Apr 03 17:34:32 <Soli> eia: As far as I know, there have been a talk to create a non profit organistation just for the wikimania as there is two chapter in their early devolpement here. WM-Canada and WM-Quebec.
Apr 03 17:35:01 <Coren> Soli:  To be more precise, that nonprofit already exists.
Apr 03 17:35:08 <Soli> But Coren can probably answer better than I. I'll give him the floor.
Apr 03 17:35:15 <Coren> (And is operational, though there are few operations yet to be done)
Apr 03 17:35:23 <eia> Coren: oh?
Apr 03 17:35:33 * derp-MTL can answer questions related to security and transportation.
Apr 03 17:35:34 <Teemu5> derp-MTL: don't know the chapter policy but have a Chapter in Québec and work with the WM-Canada, too, sounds like a good idea.
Apr 03 17:35:53 <derp-MTL> I agree on this
Apr 03 17:36:02 <jowen> jowen: MTL-does your community have regular meet-ups? If yes, has this bid been discussed during a meet-up?  Is the location community fully behind and supporting this bid?  How many members are in your location community that you could recruit?
Apr 03 17:36:16 <Coren> Teemu5: That's the intent, though the coordination takes longer than hoped for.  I'm really hoping that the *buzz* around a Wikimania will help  a great deal to get people together.
Apr 03 17:36:43 <derp-MTL> Well, we have regular wikimeetups
Apr 03 17:36:47 <eia> hmm, so if I understand correctly (trying to recap) there is a "chapter" founded already in Quebec with the main purpose of organizing wikimania, Wikimania Canada is on its way and you would like to cooperate on a general level?
Apr 03 17:36:53 <Coren> jowen: Not really, at least not yet.  Given that the bid was still mostly tentative, we haven't actually gotten around to meeting in person.  One of the great things about online communities is that it allows working around schedules.
Apr 03 17:37:08 <Coren> But we've been looking for a good meeting timing in the coming week.
Apr 03 17:37:09 <Teemu5> Coren: I think your bid would be stronger with these things in place already at this point.
Apr 03 17:37:12 <derp-MTL> The last attempt was in 2009.
Apr 03 17:37:47 <Coren> Teemu5: It would be.  The problem is that Canada (and Quebec) is *LARGE*.  Getting people physically in the same place is harder than it seems.
Apr 03 17:38:08 <Coren> And, what do you know, the organization of a WM does exactly that!  :-)
Apr 03 17:38:48 <eia> Coren: could you tell if my summary above is correct?
Apr 03 17:39:07 <Coren> eia: There is a nonprofit active "Comite Wikimania Montreal" whose charter is to create a bid and run the event.  Any leftover monies is to go to an eventual Quebec or Canada chapter.
Apr 03 17:39:43 <Coren> eia: I'd expect that most of the people who involve themselves with the Wikimania bid are people who *also* have the interest in a chapter.
Apr 03 17:39:59 <Coren> eia: And, in fact, I'm meeting Delphine in Gdanks about that very topic.  :-)
Apr 03 17:40:02 * derp-MTL is interested :)
Apr 03 17:40:15 <Coren> Gdansk*
Apr 03 17:40:58 <eia> now this makes me curious to the toronto situation :)
Apr 03 17:41:02 <Coren> But it was felt best to keep the focus of the nonprofit to Wikimania so as to avoid the ChapCom delays and discussion, and the more delicate setup of a charity vs. a simple nonprofit
Apr 03 17:42:09 <Coren> Plus, there was a timing issue.  While there certainly was interest in a chapter, that takes months to setup at best.
Apr 03 17:42:32 <Coren> And nobody wanted to rush a chapter.
Apr 03 17:42:42 <Teemu5> I must go now - thank you all - it was a pleasure. I'll read the log later. good night for all.
Apr 03 17:42:46 <eia> A question I have to all bidding teams, but for now for New York somewhat more specific: you have organized some unconference-like meetings in the past if I am correct and experimented with different styles. What type of conference do you have in mind for Wikimania? (ranging from formal, scientific to unconference)
Apr 03 17:43:17 <eia> and how does that fit with your choice of location/accommodation etc
Apr 03 17:43:43 <Pharos> we actually had a "modified unconference" before
Apr 03 17:44:11 <Pharos> this is a good description: http://www.stuartgeiger.com/wordpress/conference-presentations/conference-notes/2009/09/07/wikiconference-new-york-an-open-unconference/
Apr 03 17:44:55 <Pharos> we would follow all wikimania guidelines on formal programs, but would probabbly also seek to incorporate some unconference elements
Apr 03 17:45:16 <Pharos> with the permission of the program committee, of course
Apr 03 17:45:40 <Pharos> the venue at NYU Law is the same we used for Wiki-Conference NY
Apr 03 17:46:08 <Pharos> it has a good number of break-out rooms which makes it suitable for unconference elements
Apr 03 17:46:20 <eia> Pharos: well, since there are little formal guidelines, I think it is good to have your vision on it
Apr 03 17:46:21 <jowen> NYC?what is the largest space you have for keynotes how many can be seated?
Apr 03 17:46:44 <Pharos> at NYU Law, the largest room is 450
Apr 03 17:46:59 <Pharos> right across the hall, there is another large room however
Apr 03 17:47:12 <Harel-il>  we have held many different community gatherings and meetups of all kinds - from academic/formal to social
Apr 03 17:47:29 <jowen> so not all attendees could attend a keynote?
Apr 03 17:47:42 <Pharos> that can hold a couple of hundred more, depending on seating arrangements
Apr 03 17:48:07 <Pharos> we could do a simulcast across the hall
Apr 03 17:48:26 <Pharos> if it is felt necessary, we can move to an alternative venue
Apr 03 17:48:59 <Pharos> members of our team have experience with other venues, in particular thew Fashion Institute of Technology
Apr 03 17:49:01 <jowen> still on the NYC campus?
Apr 03 17:49:20 <Pharos> if the Wikimania jury feels that a single large hall is of prime importance
Apr 03 17:50:02 <jowen> It would be nice to know we have the option, I think a conference hall large enough to hold all attendees for keynotes is useful
Apr 03 17:50:03 <Pharos> FIT is a part of the State University of New York, which is separate
Apr 03 17:50:34 <brassratgirl> (sorry guys, I was an hour off....)
Apr 03 17:50:50 <Harel-il> i hope i can drop in now -- as i said we had events of all kinds in IL before, from small and informal to big and formal
Apr 03 17:51:05 <Harel-il> our biggest hall in the venue can seat 1300 people, more than enough for the keynote speeches
Apr 03 17:51:06 <derp-MTL> brassratgirl, it's okay, i'll publish the logs :)
Apr 03 17:51:29 <brassratgirl> thx derp
Apr 03 17:51:30 <Harel-il> also, we see the conference as a social tool, strengthening the social ties and increasing the cooperation between wikipedians and wikimedians from around the world. We have read criticism of past wikimedia events and have noticed the attendees have complained that the social events are usually at the end of the conference
Apr 03 17:51:34 <eia> but Pharos what would you /want/ for kind of conference, what is your /vision/ of how it should be :)
Apr 03 17:52:23 <Pharos> I think we could work well with a 450 person room and a simulcast room
Apr 03 17:52:31 <delphine> sorry I'm late :/
Apr 03 17:52:33 <Pharos> but we could change if desired
Apr 03 17:52:56 <Pharos> in general, our bid is about reaching out to a vey broad community
Apr 03 17:53:00 <brassratgirl> pharos: is that what open video did?
Apr 03 17:53:09 <derp-MTL> delphine, aucun problème :)
Apr 03 17:53:19 <Pharos> yes, they ran a cable 20 feet across the hall
Apr 03 17:53:47 <Pharos> so no danger of antennas failing
Apr 03 17:54:16 <Pharos> we want to reach out to the public through the Wiki World's Fair with other open knowledge groups
Apr 03 17:55:04 <Pharos> and to work with partners to have salons and unconferences that are complementary to Wikimania itsef
Apr 03 17:55:28 <Pharos> and I think we can make some of these side events free and open to everyone
Apr 03 17:56:46 <brassratgirl> thanks pharos
Apr 03 17:57:15 <brassratgirl> sorry to interrupt -- but because delphine, austin & I are new to the channel ... are there logs already posted somewhere we can catch up with?
Apr 03 17:57:27 <derp-MTL> brassratgirl, i'll post them shortly if you want.
Apr 03 17:57:28 <brassratgirl> sorry to be disorganized :(
Apr 03 17:57:29 <brassratgirl> ok
Apr 03 17:57:35 <derp-MTL> Pharos, are there side events, like cultural events, festivals?
Apr 03 17:57:56 <Pharos> the Wiki World's Fair will be a street/park festival
Apr 03 17:58:13 <derp-MTL> Ah ok :)
Apr 03 17:58:19 <Pharos> with exhibitors from different open knowledge projects
Apr 03 17:58:38 <Pharos> such as members of the http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Free_Culture_Alliance_NYC
Apr 03 17:59:00 <Pharos> there will probably be other side events as well, of a more indoors character
Apr 03 17:59:33 <derp-MTL> I see :)
Apr 03 17:59:44 <Pharos> btw, if another team wins, feel free to copy the Wiki World's Fair idea
Apr 03 17:59:50 * derp-MTL notes.
Apr 03 17:59:51 <Pharos> I officially copyleft it :)
Apr 03 17:59:57 <brassratgirl> :)
Apr 03 18:00:05 <Coren> Pharos: It's certainly worthy of copying.
Apr 03 18:00:12 <derp-MTL> As for Montréal, the location is very close to the cultural center of Montréal, wich includes the Jazz Festival, Just For Laughs festival and a whole plethora of stuff to see or do!
Apr 03 18:00:32 <derp-MTL> all right
Apr 03 18:00:34 <derp-MTL> copying log!
Apr 03 18:00:44 <Coren> For Mtl: I see three faces to a successful Wikimania, and I think they are equally important:  there is the social aspect, Wikimedians meeting each other and discussing informally.  That's why having common areas, meeting places, activities is important.  Thus the *huge* common areas and hotel spaces we allocated.
Apr 03 18:00:49 <eia> Montreal and Haifa: could you also explain what /type/ of conference you would like to see, schedule wise?
Apr 03 18:00:49 <eia> very formal, very unconference like etc?
Apr 03 18:01:03 <Coren> Second is the "conference" part; giving a podium for those who bring new ideas and new insight in a more formal setting.  That's the "main tracks", with a set program and setup -- allowing people to plan their time accordingly.
Apr 03 18:01:14 <Coren> Finally, we have the "outreach" aspect.  Where we get the press and public at large involved to raise awareness and participation.  Having a high profile event in a major venue with strong government support helps there a great deal; having a minister speak garantees media attention.  This is why we pay extra attendion to the quality of video recording and retransmission.
Apr 03 18:01:24 <Coren> So, IMO, *balance* is the key.
Apr 03 18:01:58 <Pharos> I would like to point out that NYC will be particularly strong on video
Apr 03 18:02:03 <Coren> For instance, using the media attention to promote a Wiki Fair idea would be excellent.
Apr 03 18:02:13 <Pharos> given our work with the Open Video Alliance
Apr 03 18:02:50 <Ijon-IL> Is MTL done?
Apr 03 18:03:05 <Coren> Well, for the original question.  :-)
Apr 03 18:03:19 <Coren> derp?
Apr 03 18:03:19 <brassratgirl> have any of the bids addressed budgets yet?
Apr 03 18:03:39 <DrorK-IL> brassratgirl= I think all of us have
Apr 03 18:03:58 <Pharos> talked about it last session
Apr 03 18:04:33 <Coren> We discussed it briefly, though I could understand why Montreal's bigger envelope requires explanation.
Apr 03 18:04:52 <derp-MTL> Pharos, do you have involvement of the NYC public transportation authority?
Apr 03 18:04:58 <brassratgirl> I'm curious for NYC & Israel particularly why your VIP budget is so high
Apr 03 18:05:12 <Deror-IL> eia: We see the conference as an educational, a promotional, and a social event, and have planned the conference to cater to all three goals. we see the conference as a social tool, strengthening the social ties and increasing the cooperation between wikipedians and wikimedians from around the world, therefore it is both formal and unformal. See our suggested itinerary here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa/noJS
Apr 03 18:05:50 <Pharos> we have had discussions with several government agencies, but not yet public transportation
Apr 03 18:06:06 <Deror-IL> Sorry itinerary - here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa#Suggested_Itinerary
Apr 03 18:06:11 <Pharos> I should note our dorms are within walking distance of the venue
Apr 03 18:06:51 <Coren> Same as NYC here, where none of the accomodations are further than 10 minutes' walk from the venue or so (and the primary hotels are a block away)
Apr 03 18:07:20 <Pharos> we could bring the VIP budget down if desired
Apr 03 18:07:30 <Deror-IL> brassratgirl - see here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa#VIP_Budget
Apr 03 18:07:38 <Pharos> we were actually trying to be comparable to the other bids with that
Apr 03 18:07:42 <brassratgirl> thanks deror
Apr 03 18:07:53 <brassratgirl> coren: you need more detail about budget accomodation
Apr 03 18:08:33 <eia> Deror-IL: just a stupid question... but which days would be the actual conference?
Apr 03 18:08:39 <Coren> brassratgirl: Well, at this time, we have bids from university dorms that would be very affortable (less than $40/night)
Apr 03 18:08:41 <eia> I only see parties :)
Apr 03 18:08:56 <brassratgirl> coren: ok, great -- saying "it exists" is nice but we need more actual detail :)
Apr 03 18:09:05 <Deror-IL> eia - Wednesday - Sunday, August 4-7, 2011; Hacking days take place on August 2nd and 3rd
Apr 03 18:09:26 <eia> so five days or regular conference?
Apr 03 18:09:29 * delphine agrees with brassratgirl on the accommodation scheme.
Apr 03 18:09:42 <Coren> brassratgirl: They're in the table, but we got the information second hand from our negotiation with the Tourism Board; they are not avaliable to meet until May where we would have more details.
Apr 03 18:09:45 <Soli> ( for late commers, a real time log is available at http://----BLANKED----/wikimania_20100403.log )
Apr 03 18:10:05 <Coren> brassratgirl: Price and availability are known, though.
Apr 03 18:10:27 <brassratgirl> so price, available, location on a map, # of rooms :)
Apr 03 18:10:48 <Coren> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Montr%C3%A9al#Accommodation
Apr 03 18:10:48 <delphine> Coren: ok.
Apr 03 18:10:57 <derp-MTL> Plus a "survival guide" on what to do if we're lost :)
Apr 03 18:11:05 <Coren> The UQAM row is the one you want.
Apr 03 18:11:05 <Deror-IL> eia - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa#Suggested_Itinerary - basicaly three days conference, and those who wish to stay two more days can do so (as you know we are offering free dorms for about 200 participants and special prices at four stars hotels - so these free dorms and special prices will continue for those days - see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa#Accommodations
Apr 03 18:11:19 <Coren> I'll add a map with the venue and accomodations though; you're right that it'd help
Apr 03 18:11:19 <brassratgirl> pharos: NYC is a little shy on detail in the accommodation department too :)
Apr 03 18:11:29 <delphine> -----STOP----------
Apr 03 18:11:41 <delphine> Sorry guys, can we please have one team talking at once?
Apr 03 18:11:59 <Pharos> a bit
Apr 03 18:12:00 <delphine> because we've missed the beginning, so this everyone talking at once just does not work :)
Apr 03 18:12:19 <Pharos> we have the dorms, and are working on the hotels
Apr 03 18:12:42 <delphine> so we're on accommodation, Montréal has given the information we need, we'll get even more info in May
Apr 03 18:12:48 <delphine> NYC is on, talking about accommodation
Apr 03 18:12:51 <delphine> thanks.
Apr 03 18:13:10 <Ijon-IL> yeah, let's finish the dorms issue, as it's relatively simple, and then get back to eia's question about conference content and schedule.
Apr 03 18:13:16 <delphine> thx
Apr 03 18:13:30 <delphine> Pharos: you're on :)
Apr 03 18:13:35 <delphine> more questions about accommodation?
Apr 03 18:13:55 <brassratgirl> pharos: when will you know availability for the dorms?
Apr 03 18:14:13 <delphine> yes, was gonna ask that :)
Apr 03 18:14:17 <Pharos> they normally don't book this far in advance
Apr 03 18:14:19 <delphine> and how many rooms are available and all.
Apr 03 18:14:19 <Pharos> but
Apr 03 18:15:33 <delphine> ping?
Apr 03 18:15:47 <Pharos> (normally they do do reservation until the january before)
Apr 03 18:15:55 <delphine> ok.
Apr 03 18:16:03 <delphine> 700 potential dorm rooms is that right?
Apr 03 18:16:08 <Pharos> but we do have official sponsorship now by an NYU department
Apr 03 18:16:12 <delphine> so we're early for the booking if needed.
Apr 03 18:16:13 <delphine> ok.
Apr 03 18:16:19 <Pharos> 700 potentrial dorms
Apr 03 18:16:37 <Pharos> yes, we're quite early
Apr 03 18:17:45 <delphine> great.
Apr 03 18:17:50 <Pharos> anything else on accomodation?
Apr 03 18:17:52 <delphine> Any other questions on accommodation for NYC?
Apr 03 18:17:55 <delphine> 1
Apr 03 18:17:57 <delphine> 2
Apr 03 18:17:58 <delphine> 3
Apr 03 18:18:29 <delphine> ok. IL you're on for questions about accommodation.
Apr 03 18:18:33 <delphine> Haifa that is.
Apr 03 18:19:00 <delphine> brassratgirl, Austin, jowen anyone, questions about accommodation for the Haifa team.
Apr 03 18:19:38 <Austin> Nope, not from me.
Apr 03 18:20:10 <Deror-IL> The main details are here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa#Accommodations
Apr 03 18:20:22 <brassratgirl> yes
Apr 03 18:20:32 <brassratgirl> can you give a summary of the # of rooms available that you've looked at?
Apr 03 18:20:34 <brassratgirl> just somewhere in the bid
Apr 03 18:20:45 <Soli> How many room will Haifa University and the Technion Institute provide?
Apr 03 18:20:49 <brassratgirl> oh, I see, it's in teh tabbed display
Apr 03 18:20:53 <Soli> nvm
Apr 03 18:20:54 <Deror-IL> Wikimedia Israel has negotiated rates with three four-star hotels in the vicinity of the venue. We have received an offer for about 165 double or triple occupancy rooms In total, four nights will cost $200 per person (bed and breakfast) in a double occupancy room ($220 in the Dan Gardens; a bit less - about $185 in a triple occupancy room). For participants who can not afford accommodation, Wikimedia Israel has negotiated and obtained 
Apr 03 18:21:28 <delphine> yes, that. The "dorms around the city". Can you be a bit more precise about that?
Apr 03 18:21:42 <Deror-IL> Haifa University promissed 100 dorm rooms, The Technion 50, and the municipalty another 50 - in total about 200 dorm rooms.
Apr 03 18:21:53 <delphine> ok
Apr 03 18:21:57 <delphine> walking distance?
Apr 03 18:22:37 <delphine> (apparently not, shuttles.)
Apr 03 18:22:38 <Deror-IL> While the hotels are all located within short walking distance from the venue, the dorms are further away (25 minutes away by car in the rush hours). However, the buget provides for shattle transportation on hourly basis (or more should it be needed, based on the number of attendants staying at the dorms) from the dorms to the venue, and vice versa. Such transportation will also be provided from the three main hotels to the venue (even
Apr 03 18:22:47 <delphine> yeah, sorry :)
Apr 03 18:22:50 <delphine> ok.
Apr 03 18:22:52 <delphine> gotcha
Apr 03 18:22:53 <Ijon-IL> *shuttle
Apr 03 18:22:59 <delphine> no need to copy/paste :P
Apr 03 18:23:51 <brassratgirl> got it
Apr 03 18:23:52 <Harel-il> some consideration for us non-native-speakers who prepared answers in advance :)
Apr 03 18:23:54 <brassratgirl> a map might be helpful
Apr 03 18:24:21 <delphine> Harel-il: sorry, I meant I'm bad
Apr 03 18:24:24 <delphine> because that's on the bid
Apr 03 18:24:31 <delphine> and I didn't read it properly!
Apr 03 18:24:35 <delphine> :D
Apr 03 18:24:56 <Harel-il> sure, no problem :) we were just not sure people were actually reading the bid or opening deror's links...
Apr 03 18:25:14 <delphine> ok, thanks Haifa.
Apr 03 18:25:17 <delphine> is Toronto around?
Apr 03 18:25:20 <Soli> Is there peoples from Toronto? If not, I think that close the accomodations part.
Apr 03 18:25:24 <Deror-IL> Thats OK, brassratgirl - there are maps in the bid. I hope you see them in English - we see them in Hebrew
Apr 03 18:26:17 <delphine> Toronto once
Apr 03 18:26:22 <delphine> Toronto twice.
Apr 03 18:26:41 <delphine> well. Cna we then go back to eiaway question?
Apr 03 18:26:45 <Tomer-il> Was Toronto sold?
Apr 03 18:26:53 <delphine> ie. what kind of conference are you looking at?
Apr 03 18:27:05 <delphine> ie. length, atmosphere, program, that kind of stuff.
Apr 03 18:27:22 <Tomer-il> delphine: Who should go first?
Apr 03 18:27:29 <delphine> Start with IL (change the order a bit ;))
Apr 03 18:27:41 <delphine> Haifa you're on, then NYC then Montréal
Apr 03 18:28:13 <Harel-il> we're looking at a 3 day conference that will mix formal/academic parts with socializing events
Apr 03 18:28:32 <Harel-il> we want a lot of breakout rooms and a very informal atmosphere
Apr 03 18:28:47 <Harel-il> from previous years' feedback, that was something people complained was lacking
Apr 03 18:29:31 <delphine> (people always complain :P)
Apr 03 18:29:32 <Harel-il> we want to emphasize the non-anglophonic part of the wiki world
Apr 03 18:29:42 <delphine> and the RTL!
Apr 03 18:29:49 <Harel-il> and hopefully the haifa location can help with that
Apr 03 18:29:51 <Austin> I'll bring my mirror.
Apr 03 18:30:05 <Harel-il> haifa is one of the most multicultural cities in israel, a place that mixes many religions
Apr 03 18:30:10 <DrorK-IL> Delphine, honestly, people cosider Taiwan one of the best because of the combination
Apr 03 18:30:11 <Harel-il> even baha'i religion :)
Apr 03 18:30:21 <DrorK-IL> And we plan to go along this line
Apr 03 18:30:45 <delphine> Harel-il: ok, I'm good with that answer.
Apr 03 18:30:55 <delphine> brassratgirl, jowen, Austin, other questions?
Apr 03 18:30:57 <Harel-il> taiwan was the only WM i attended, and i think it was a role model
Apr 03 18:31:18 <Austin> I'm good.
Apr 03 18:31:36 <delphine> ok, next is NYC. Pharos & Co, you're on.
Apr 03 18:31:50 <delphine> What kind of conference are we looking at in NYC
Apr 03 18:31:55 <Pharos> Pharos & Co, known today as Pharos
Apr 03 18:31:59 <delphine> length, atmosphere, program etc.
Apr 03 18:32:07 <delphine> lol, sorry :)
Apr 03 18:32:23 <Pharos> 3 days for the main conference
Apr 03 18:32:40 <Pharos> I think we can have a mostly informal atmosphere
Apr 03 18:32:49 <Pharos> with unconfrencey elements
Apr 03 18:33:15 <Pharos> and especially a broad outreach to non-Wikimaniacs
Apr 03 18:33:29 <Pharos> through the Wiki World's Fair and other Wiki Week events
Apr 03 18:33:57 <Pharos> while still providing a professional and highly visible venue for all of the keynotes etc
Apr 03 18:34:23 <Pharos> a conference in NYC is before the eyes of the world too
Apr 03 18:34:46 <delphine> ok
Apr 03 18:35:31 <delphine> I'm good with that.
Apr 03 18:35:37 <delphine> brassratgirl, Austin, jowen?
Apr 03 18:35:56 <jowen> I am good
Apr 03 18:35:59 <Austin> Same
Apr 03 18:36:10 <delphine> Now on to Montréal. What kind of conference do you have in mind?
Apr 03 18:36:16 <Coren> Basically, we want to make a Bid Deal out of Wikimania, but give prominence to the community aspects.  For instance, we plan to limit the formal conference to four tracks and leave one fully equipped conference room for impromptu talks and sessions; we give vast common areas a priority, and meeting opportunities a high value.
Apr 03 18:36:40 <Coren> Hence, the major high profile venue, the government involvement, and the focus on leaving the mechanics of making it work in the hands of pros.
Apr 03 18:37:08 <Coren> We want Wikimania 2011 to be one to remember, and raise awareness through visibility.  "High polish", I suppose.
Apr 03 18:37:50 <Coren> We have an a-list keynote lined up, for instance (do we get to tell?)
Apr 03 18:38:05 <delphine> can you tell?
Apr 03 18:38:06 <delphine> :D
Apr 03 18:38:14 <Coren> I can, now, because it's been made official.
Apr 03 18:38:30 <delphine> \o/
Apr 03 18:38:36 <Coren> Eric Raymon.
Apr 03 18:38:37 <delphine> go ahead, you get to tell :)
Apr 03 18:38:41 <Coren> Raymond.  :-)
Apr 03 18:39:09 <Coren> (Cathedral and Bazzar fame, for those who don't know him)
Apr 03 18:39:14 <brassratgirl> coren: nice.
Apr 03 18:39:21 <delphine> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond
Apr 03 18:39:26 <brassratgirl> coren: can you give more detail in the bid (not necessarily right now) about this: "The Palais provides to us, free of charge, a conference organizing lead and team to handle logistics, setup and deployment. "
Apr 03 18:39:32 <brassratgirl> like, what logistics are included?
Apr 03 18:39:35 <brassratgirl> what will they do?
Apr 03 18:39:41 <brassratgirl> what services over what time period?
Apr 03 18:39:43 <brassratgirl> etc.
Apr 03 18:39:46 <brassratgirl> (and total cost)
Apr 03 18:39:48 <derp-MTL> We have John Broughton too...
Apr 03 18:40:03 <delphine> brassratgirl: wait, can we finish with the ceonference format?
Apr 03 18:40:04 <delphine> thanks.
Apr 03 18:40:05 <Coren> brassratgirl: They're going to coordinate all suppliers; arrange for gear to be moved and setup; provide the security and cleaning staff, communications.
Apr 03 18:40:12 <delphine> so Coren, ok, high profile conference.
Apr 03 18:41:19 <delphine> any more questions about conference format jowen Austin brassratgirl?
Apr 03 18:41:53 <delphine> I have one question for all teams.
Apr 03 18:42:04 <delphine> it requires a one line answer :)=
Apr 03 18:42:27 <Tomer-il> I must say that I was very impressed with Coren's Keynote speakers
Apr 03 18:42:28 <delphine> who in the team has been to a Wikimania, and which Wikimania(s) was that. Thanks.
Apr 03 18:42:46 <Coren> Me, at least, 2009 in BA
Apr 03 18:42:47 * derp-MTL points to Coren.
Apr 03 18:43:12 <delphine> for Montréal, Coren in Buenos Aires. NYC? Haifa?
Apr 03 18:43:15 <Pharos> Sandra Ordonez helped organize Wikimania Taipei
Apr 03 18:43:20 <DrorK-IL> Well, I'm more of an advisor, but Delphine saw me in one or two Wikimanias
Apr 03 18:43:23 * Ijon-IL has never been, but hopes to make it to Gdansk this year! :)
Apr 03 18:43:34 <delphine> DrorK-IL: indeed ;)
Apr 03 18:43:40 <Pharos> Sandra is part of our NYC team now
Apr 03 18:43:42 <Harel-il> Drork is a WM veteran, I attended WM 2007, and two other members of the team attended WM 2009
Apr 03 18:44:05 * derp-MTL has particpated in a lot of conventions
Apr 03 18:44:17 <delphine> ok, Pharos you? (maybe we can differ answer if you don't know exactly for other members)
Apr 03 18:44:26 <delphine> derp-MTL: i really mean Wikimanias ;)
Apr 03 18:44:34 <Pharos> I haven't attended yet
Apr 03 18:44:51 <brassratgirl> pharos: a sad situation that we must remedy
Apr 03 18:44:55 <delphine> anyone else in team?
Apr 03 18:44:56 <Pharos> to be truthful, most of us haven't attended
Apr 03 18:44:59 <derp-MTL> oh none, but i'll read up :)
Apr 03 18:45:11 <brassratgirl> pharos: elizabeth stark went to 2008
Apr 03 18:45:16 <Pharos> but sandra ordonez helped organize one, like i said
Apr 03 18:45:21 <Pharos> ah, of course
Apr 03 18:45:29 <Pharos> elizabeth is everywhere
Apr 03 18:45:38 <delphine> brassratgirl: elizabeth was there in 2006 as well ;)
Apr 03 18:45:45 <brassratgirl> hahaha, right
Apr 03 18:45:57 <brassratgirl> anyone else for the other teams?
Apr 03 18:45:59 * Deror-IL has never been, but hopes to make it to Gdansk this year and to Haifa in 2011
Apr 03 18:46:01 <jowen> have any of the MTL team been to a Wikimania?
Apr 03 18:46:10 <derp-MTL> not me.
Apr 03 18:46:10 <delphine> jowen: yes, Coren last year.
Apr 03 18:46:19 <jowen> Same question for NYC... I know Haifa have
Apr 03 18:46:48 <Pharos> didn't we already discuss this?
Apr 03 18:46:49 <delphine> jowen: read up!
Apr 03 18:47:02 <jowen> sorry  :(
Apr 03 18:47:05 <delphine> lol
Apr 03 18:47:11 <delphine> ok, we're done with that question.
Apr 03 18:47:17 <delphine> I think our time is more than up.
Apr 03 18:47:42 <Coren> brassratgirl still had a Q for Mtl that I barely answered-ish.  :-)
Apr 03 18:47:50 <brassratgirl> coren: about logistics ....
Apr 03 18:47:58 <brassratgirl> I think it'd be helpful if you wrote it out in teh bid
Apr 03 18:48:02 <delphine> yep
Apr 03 18:48:04 <brassratgirl> rather than explaining it right now
Apr 03 18:48:06 <delphine> was gonna go there.
Apr 03 18:48:12 <brassratgirl> but any and all detail you can provide would be super
Apr 03 18:48:17 <brassratgirl> And I have a question for all teams:
Apr 03 18:48:21 <Coren> Allright; I'll expand that bit.
Apr 03 18:48:21 <brassratgirl> who is doing what?
Apr 03 18:48:22 <delphine> ah good
Apr 03 18:48:26 <brassratgirl> again, put it in the bid :)
Apr 03 18:48:29 <delphine> brassratgirl: has the last question :)
Apr 03 18:48:45 <brassratgirl> yeah
Apr 03 18:48:47 <Pharos> yes, we're working on putting the roles in
Apr 03 18:48:52 <brassratgirl> we don't need an answer right this minute
Apr 03 18:49:04 <brassratgirl> but ... do you have roles broken down? Are people assigned to a role? etc
Apr 03 18:49:37 <Pharos> for now, I'm general coordinator and ben moskowitz is budget coordinator
Apr 03 18:49:40 <delphine> ok
Apr 03 18:50:03 <delphine> ok, so here is the deal. The meeting is over in about 2 minutes.
Apr 03 18:50:28 <delphine> the jury will get together and work on more questions, which we will send email or on meta
Apr 03 18:50:34 <delphine> remember
Apr 03 18:50:42 <delphine> all of us (jury members)
Apr 03 18:50:45 <delphine> are here to help as well
Apr 03 18:50:49 <delphine> not just to judge.
Apr 03 18:50:54 <delphine> so don't hesitate to ask us stuff.
Apr 03 18:50:56 <brassratgirl> yes
Apr 03 18:51:00 <delphine> really.
Apr 03 18:51:03 <delphine> We mean it and all.
Apr 03 18:51:06 <brassratgirl> I think all teams have write access to the jury mailing list
Apr 03 18:51:17 <brassratgirl> and I'll be following up with questions that don't get answered
Apr 03 18:51:20 <brassratgirl> so watch your q&a pages
Apr 03 18:51:26 <brassratgirl> and more explanation is usually better :)
Apr 03 18:51:26 <delphine> Austin, brassratgirl and I have organized-coorganized-participated in all Wikimanias so far :)
Apr 03 18:51:44 <delphine> so, we can help.
Apr 03 18:51:50 * brassratgirl falls over dead from wikimania-exhaustion
Apr 03 18:51:50 <delphine> for me, email is the best way to reach me.
Apr 03 18:51:52 <brassratgirl> it is true
Apr 03 18:52:00 <Austin> Same here, e-mail is best.
Apr 03 18:52:11 <brassratgirl> q's can just go to the jury list, yes?
Apr 03 18:52:21 <brassratgirl> and I can send responses back
Apr 03 18:52:30 <delphine> they can, but if you feel more comfortable asking one of us
Apr 03 18:52:31 <delphine> do so.
Apr 03 18:52:41 <delphine> that's all.
Apr 03 18:52:47 <delphine> Thank you all for all your time and dedication.
Apr 03 18:52:57 * delphine is taken by the Wikimania fever again :)
Apr 03 18:52:58 <Austin> Yeah, if you just want some advice on something, you don't need to e-mail an entire list.  :)
Apr 03 18:53:14 <Austin> I'm adhair at gmail dot com, btw
Apr 03 18:53:17 <Deror-IL> Good night.
Apr 03 18:53:17 <delphine> and we'll see you around the wiki. :)
Apr 03 18:53:23 <Austin> Thanks guys, later.  :)
Apr 03 18:53:26 <derp-MTL> sleep well Deror-IL :)
Apr 03 18:53:35 <brassratgirl> thanks
Apr 03 18:53:36 <Ijon-IL> good night, everyone.
Apr 03 18:53:41 <derp-MTL> :)
Apr 03 18:53:44 <jowen> night
Apr 03 18:53:57 <Tomer-il> cheers
Apr 03 18:54:21 <Coren> Good afternoon!  :-)
Apr 03 18:54:25 <delphine> have a good {{timezone}} everyone.
Apr 03 18:54:32 <Pharos> good afternoon, eastern hemisphere friends