Wikimania 2014/IRC meeting 2013-04-06

This is the log of the 2013-04-06 IRC meeting for Wikimania 2014, looking at the London bid.

brassratgirl: hello jknight_ldn! welcome
jknight_ldn: Hey Folks :) - For who dont know i'm part of the London bid team
James_F: edsaperia_ldn, jknight_ldn: Will you two be the primary presenters today?
edsaperia_ldn: I am also here
harej_jury: hello j. knight
harej_jury: hello e. saperia
edsaperia_ldn: Kimi is sitting next to me and will be shortly
Jon__: Hello - jon here from WMUK if needed.
James_F: Jon__: Hello!
Kimi_: Hi everyone
edsaperia_ldn: Hi Jon__, thanks for coming
kondi_jury: Hey all, I'm Konarak the quiet jury member.
Anthere: hi
Jon__: No probs - what else would I do on a Saturday - fed up of watchig Bristol City lose...
brassratgirl_mod: :)
Shujenchang_jury: Hi
James_F: OK, should we get started?
jknight_ldn: Sounds good
Shujenchang_jury: +1
James_F: Welcome, everyone.
James_F: Some quick things:
James_F: 1) This is a meeting for the Jury to ask the London bid some questions and seek clarifications.
James_F: 2) This is a publicly logged meeting; the log will be posted on meta.
James_F: 3) brassratgirl_mod and I are moderators; we'll be "running" this meeting.
James_F: That's about it. :-)
Shujenchang_jury: yes, I see
James_F: So, the "normal" format is that the bid team talks for a bit about their bid, and the jury ask questions.
brassratgirl_mod: and, shall we start with a statement from London? (if you want to say anything?)
brassratgirl_mod: yes :)
edsaperia_ldn: To save people some clicking, here's a link to our bid page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014_bids/London
edsaperia_ldn: In case you didn't have it open.
edsaperia_ldn: So, we're pleased to present to you our bid again this year
edsaperia_ldn: As you can see, we're particularly excited about encouraging an outreach agenda for this event.
edsaperia_ldn: For the past couple of years as I've become more involved in the wikimedia projects, I've heard a constant muttering about decline in editorship, and I thought it would be positive to face this head on
edsaperia_ldn: I strongly believe that sentiment towards wikimedia is very very positive, but people are simply ignorant of how the project are made and how they function, and how they can get involved.
edsaperia_ldn: This was certainly true of myself before I happened to make friends with some editors.
edsaperia_ldn: There has already been quite a lot of discussion on the talk page, and there's not much point in going over it in depth here;
edsaperia_ldn: Suffice to say it's clear that there's some trepidation about the ambitiousness of this bid, which is natural and right, but also I hope you can share in our excitement about achieving quite significant things for the movement as a whole with this event. The access to global media that we have in London is hard to match elsewhere, and will allow us to draw
edsaperia_ldn: significant attention to the work that this community is doing,
edsaperia_ldn: Thank you.
James_F: OK, thanks edsaperia_ldn.
James_F: Does anyone from the jury have a first question?
harej_jury: Ahoy,
James_F: (Note that non-jury members are welcome to ask questions and chime in a bit later.)
Anthere: I find some of your statements a bit... bold
harej_jury: With regards to your outreach program, how have you designed this outreach program to ensure that people will continue to be contributors after attending Wikimania?
edsaperia_ldn: (test)
jknight_ldn: Hey guys - ed has lost his connection and is rejoining
brassratgirl_mod: should we queue up a couple of questions while waiting?
edsaperia_ldn: (Sorry, I didn't get that question, but jknight sent it to me over facebook)
brassratgirl_mod: ok, super
jknight_ldn: Hey James - i think there are two points here: One is general awareness of the movement and the other is actively recruiting volunteers
jknight_ldn: In terms of contributors, i think the most importnat thing is working with the chapers and in regions where there are currently no chapters - leading volunteers
edsaperia_ldn: (ping?)
James_F: edsaperia_ldn: Working.
jknight_ldn: We have met with the German Chapter and will be going to the chapters conference in Milan later this month to better understand the whole variety of initiatives which are currently being worked on within the movement and what there plans are over the coming years
jknight_ldn: We want to get substainal input form the chapter and have a much better formalised way of getting them invoved with the confernece - basic examples are the chapters having exhibition space / running sessions etc
edsaperia_ldn: A conference is just a platform. The content is brought by the community; we are reaching out to chapters to present their initiatives within the framework of the conference so that attendees are aware of them, and also...
jknight_ldn: In terms of how to directly channel interest, the confernece wll obviously have to have a strong online pressence with direct links to volunteering opportunities / ways to get involved around the world. The second point is to get people invovled at the actual event through editing workshops etc
edsaperia_ldn: ... We will be working with chapters to channel PR brought by the event in their region into their local initiatives.
edsaperia_ldn: So hopefully the event will just alert people to a host of existing and local initiatives that they can join.
jknight_ldn: In terms of general exposure for the movement, this is obviosly a less taniable benefits, for instance educating GLAM institutes on teh benefits of working with us, getting corporates inrested in more general sposnorship of the movement, getting goverment to regonis the value of the movement i.e wikipeida in schools etc
James_F: Thank you.
James_F: I think the next question is from root-80686_jury
root-80686_jury: I am a bit worried about the outreach factor of the conference. I agree and am happy that Wikimania is being used as an outreach event. My worries are concerning the factors here.
root-80686_jury: Last Wikimanias had a trend in become more and more stuffed with sub-events, talsk etc.
root-80686_jury: quite exhausting for the orginal community. It is also a working event, the one year everyone meets and has so much to tell, discuss, exchange,
root-80686_jury: Having 10.000 additional participants on top of that may negatively influence the working atmosphere.
root-80686_jury: As I said, the last years already got quite exhausting just because of all the /internal/ events and talks we tried to fit into the tight schedule.
root-80686_jury: I don't want to discourage from doing outreach, that's a natural part of Wikimania, but it has to be in a healthy balance.
root-80686_jury: Maybe you have some thoughts and ideas how to facilitate the working atmosphere and make sure Wikimania 2014 won't become so exhausting for community members.
edsaperia_ldn: This is a concern that's been raised before; we plan to keep the core wikimedian part of the conference and the outreach segment physically segregated, which we hope will mitigate this effect
edsaperia_ldn: Some more detail here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014_bids/London/The_Event
edsaperia_ldn: We're also very aware that a conference is not just about talks, it's also about making friends.
root-80686_jury: you are planning an unconference every half day but what I read elsewhere is that the number of talks should remain the same as in previous years, is that correct?
Beria: James_F_mod, can I ask a question?
edsaperia_ldn: Breakout space is central to our event design and...
edsaperia_ldn: We changed the schedule, actually.
edsaperia_ldn: Originally, it was half days of talks and half days of unconference
James_F: Beria: Sure, but let London get to the end of this current question?
edsaperia_ldn: I think it's going to be more like 3/4 days of talks, with one track being just unconference.
Beria: It is about what they are talking, my question is how they plan to fund the outreach event (since if I understand correctly is a independent event from Wikimania that only has the dates coliding)
jknight_ldn: I think its key to note that everyone is going to want a slightly differnt experience from wikimania, its out job to facilitate and ensure there is something for everyone
edsaperia_ldn: It's not independent; it's a parallel event in a different part of the same venue.
root-80686_jury: edsaperia_ldn: I can only make a suggestion here but I would be happy if we would have less talks than we had in the last two years - better have real slots with only one talk and the ability to change talks, not three in a row.
root-80686_jury: Thanks for the explanations!
edsaperia_ldn: (I also just noticed that an outdated version of the schedule is on the bid page, which explains the confusion)
jknight_ldn: If you want to just interect with the core community, and spend a good part of the conference working, there will be plenty of cool space (the barbican conservatory for one) avalible, if you are really interested in outreach we will be encouragign community members to give talks and run workshops on the pubic track etc
edsaperia_ldn: root-80686_jury: Understood. Hopefully the unconference track will help with that.
James_F: OK, next question is from deror_jury.
deror_jury: I have two main concerns with the bid.
deror_jury: The first is the budget. I think the revenue estimations are over ambitions, and I believe no more than $300,000 can be raised
deror_jury: Including half from WF.
deror_jury: I do not believe 6000 people will come and pay 50 pounds (and with the high costs of accommodation, less wikimedians are expected to attend). I belive a "big" conference will include no more than a total of 1500 attendees including the outreach.
deror_jury: I do hope that I am proven wrong, but for us to understand the budget, can you provide a three tiered budget – up to $150,000, up to $300,000, u[ to $450,000 and above that. And list what can be done in each tier.
deror_jury: (can be done later this week – but can you just enlighten us if the conference is possible at an amount of $150,000 or $300,000).
jknight_ldn: We have done something simular in response to one of the bid questions by Theo1001 and will be posting it later today - with comments on the ambitousness of the budget as well
brassratgirl_mod: super. can you give us a quick overview? And I think we have some followup questions about the budget as well.
Anthere: Moderator suggests I ask my main question right now as it is on the same topic. I would like to know how you plan to "transform" the event in the case not enough money is to be collected to support the very high budget. What shall be cut down in your view and what would be the timeling for such decision making ?
edsaperia_ldn: London has a very active event going population. There are lots of conferences in London all year round, and they're often large and well attended. We believe that, if correctly publicised, Wikimania will appeal to lots of different groups; the tech community, educators, those involved in various parts of the cultural sector
jknight_ldn: I main priority is putting on a traditional core community wikimania - Venue, food, wifi
edsaperia_ldn: The pledge of the venue alone will go a long way to providing for the basics of this event.
jknight_ldn: There are two options 1) We have 3-4 evening event in the budget which are a significant part of the budget, we can reduce these
jknight_ldn: 2) The public track is reduced which in tern reduces AV costs significantly, organisational time, PR etc
edsaperia_ldn: Timeline for the decisionmaking is a good question; Perhaps we have several fundraising targets, and as we surpass each we "buy back" extras that we wish to add to the event.
jknight_ldn: In October the budget has to be finalised with the WMF, The Venue is obviosly the first thing which needs to be paid for, beyond that it gives us 4-5 months to close on the sponosrship deals we have been working on
Anthere: you suggest reducing the program to save money ?
jknight_ldn: sponsorship is clearly the main revenue source for the confernce, so the entire budget really revolves around that
Orsolya: can I ask a question?
jknight_ldn: To clarify - we scale back the public track and we scale back the production quality
jknight_ldn: Yes :)
James_F: jknight_ldn: Specifically with deror_jury's worry of the achievable budget being US$300k (essentially, UK£200k), is the conference doable?
edsaperia_ldn: One of our advisors is Lisa Leng, who worked on an event "Campus Party" in Berlin. It's a digital culture conference with about 10,000 delegates, and its budget was approx 5m EUR.
James_F: Orsolya: Go ahead.
jknight_ldn: London Web Summit which i was invovled in raised 2M in sponsorship
Orsolya: How much money do you need from sponsors to make the event as you want it?
jknight_ldn: One of our advisors is Lisa Leng, who worked on an event "Campus Party" in Berlin. It's a digital culture conference with about 10,000 delegates, and its budget was approx 5m EUR.
jknight_ldn: The high end of the budget would be 800GBPish - That is all the bells and whistles, with a very high production quality particulariy on AV and a comprehensive event schedule - in terms of how we raise that it can either be through ticket sales, WMF and sponsors, with the preference obviously being sponsors.
edsaperia_ldn: (Sorry, having issues, trying a different client... did my post about Lisa Leng go through?)
Anthere: yes
jknight_ldn: We are in a chicken and egg situation where no one will commit to sponsorship NOW because we have not won the bid and because of the amount of internal beauracry, and while we have lot of interest, we have not signed on the dotted line because we dont know if we are hosting the event
jknight_ldn: What we have tried to prove is that with a strong fudnraising team, very strong advisors http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014_bids/London/Logistics/Fundraising and partners who have influence with sponsors, we are able to raise more than any wikimnaia has before.
James_F: OK. kondi_jury's question next.
jknight_ldn: To comment slightly on the latest discussion on the talk page
jknight_ldn: We are producing branding collateral, key partnerships and high level speakers and media partners make us appealing to sponsors, etc - this is stage one of the fundraising campaign
kondi_jury: You intend to give exhibition space to chapters, for that some people from chapter will have to attend the conference. Now, will you be bearing the costs for these people?
jknight_ldn: but until we have a our first few deals done its very hard to finalise a budget at this stage - but yes we have consdiered downsizing / costcutting and stripping the event back if we are unsuccessful
edsaperia_ldn: It wasn't in the plan to pay for chapters to attend the conference. I don't believe this is usually paid for by bid teams. I'm not sure whether chapters typically pay for their own delegates or if they're subsidised by the WMF. This might be something we could discuss at the chapters' conference in Milan.
edsaperia_ldn: Er, paid for by wikimania teams, rather...
brassratgirl_mod: I think Kondi means specifically for the event staff for the expo, if you are proposing having booths. Usually chapter members get sent to attend wikimania
brassratgirl_mod: this could be a bigger question: where are the event/expo staff coming from?
kondi_jury: exactly
edsaperia_ldn: The event staff will be partly local volunteers and partly subcontracted via London First, the event company.
edsaperia_ldn: The equipment is native to the Barbican.
jknight_ldn: The expo is one of many ideals being floated about how to get better chapter represnetation at the conference - this is something a few chapters have asked us for and is thus something we are considering but no decision has been made
kondi_jury: alright
kondi_jury: Is there anyother idea for involving chapters?
jknight_ldn: * Sorry i meant more structured / standard engagement by the chapters
edsaperia_ldn: Panels, workshops, sub-events. The chapters are trying to organise a similar expo for Hong Kong this year, I believe.
James_F: OK, next up is Shujenchang_jury.
Shujenchang_jury: Hi, my question is about the UK visa. Is it easy/difficult to apply for a UK visa? I heard about some Wikipedians from Africa were rejected for the US visa (even some of them had scholarship).
Shujenchang_jury: Although the UK visa is much easier for application, I wonder what kind of assistance can the organizing team provide for visa application (such as invitation letters, contact to local embassies) and if you will do something to try to overturn the rejection if someone's application is rejected?
Shujenchang_jury: Thank you!
edsaperia_ldn: We have professional connections with the british foreign office, and we're working with London & Partners (who are basically the Mayor's Office), who organise large conferences on a regular basis and help to fast-track visas to allow foreign delegates to attend events.
edsaperia_ldn: There is a lot of support in London for holding events of this type.
James_F: OK.
deror_jury: o refine the questions about Visas - can u guarantee a high percentage of acceptance?
edsaperia_ldn: Besides this, I believe that Britain is one of the easiest countries to get a visa for, at least for visiting.
deror_jury: Make sure u have written assurances from the foreign office or ministry in advance - so these can be sent to the embassies in order to assist visa process.
edsaperia_ldn: Noted.
deror_jury: And also note that Visas is a full time job for a team member.
James_F: So, we've now got a question from deror_jury.
deror_jury: My other concern is the accommodations. I will be coming to the GLAM London next week and the prices of accommodations is very very high .
deror_jury: I have seen the list you have provided in the bid talk page. But it is too complicated still. You need to find 4 -5 hotels which are cheep (50$ a night p/p including breakfast), which are close and reasonable.
deror_jury: You need to group the participants together and not ask the participants to find hotels, i.e. you need to choose these hotels being there and knowing and seeing the hotels. Can this be done? Can u group the participants into few hotels which are good and cheep?
edsaperia_ldn: We shall be doing block booking of hotels. e.g. we enquired for block booking rates for a nearby hostel last year, which had 210 beds at £40/night iirc.
James_F: EdSaperia2_ldn: Is £40 the bulk rate or the retail rate?
deror_jury: I ask about hotels (not hostels) - i.e. 1 - 2 people per room not more (with bathrooms not shared bathrooms).
edsaperia_ldn: bulk
root-80686_jury: by the way I recommend booking through Wikimania registration rather than individually
root-80686_jury: 2012 / 2013 didn't not have that option, unfortunately
edsaperia_ldn: We agree that it would be good to provide that.
jknight_ldn: Yes - more than likely we will be working with one of the major universities (most likely Kings College) which as private en suite rooms - about 750 of them close to the venue (2 tube stops) wihch we can block book
jknight_ldn: In addition to Hotels of various spec of course
jknight_ldn: Its again a case, that once we can guarentee the evnet goes ahead, we can ramp up negotiation and get some of other partners involved to help get us better block rates
James_F: jknight_ldn: Do you have a feel for what the costs of those venues might be? £50? £100?
deror_jury: Make sure that you do the legwork and find good hotels to group attendees in, and not have the attendees have to find hotels by themselves (as was done for GLAM WIKI London).
jknight_ldn: The estimate we got was £30 - £50 pppn
deror_jury: for hotel or hostel?
James_F: That's the KCL dorms with en-suite?
James_F: OK, we're running over; there's a question from Anthere and then final questions/comments.
Jon__: GLAM WIKI very small in comparison so not really comparable. This would have the economic power to block book a good range of accommodation.
edsaperia_ldn: jknight_ldn's wifi just cut out.
James_F: Jon__: Thanks for the clarification.
Anthere: I am a little bit worried that this event might be very much "british" or at least English world in the end and perhaps difficult to join for international attendees. For example, I am wondering if international audience will appreciate the show at the barbican. We love British humor but we often need to be subtitled to understand it.... Is an event requiring good English understanding level the best choice for an
Anthere: …international event ?
Jon__: London one of the most nulti-cultural cities in the world.
edsaperia_ldn: Well, the show will also be music, which we hope is somewhat international. And we're trying to pick acts that will have significant visual components, and be suitable for an international audience.
Anthere: Jon__, that does not mean that all citizens speak English well, right ?
Anthere: well, yes, please, keep that in mind. It is worrying to see a program with only british and US keynotes, with UK humor as "side events" and so on
Jon__: Mr Bean?
Anthere: who ?
edsaperia_ldn: Ok, this is noted.
edsaperia_ldn: Jon__: I wasn't going to say it :)
aude: wonders what level of commitment there is from the keynotes?
edsaperia_ldn: Keynotes who are listed as keynotes have confirmed.
aude: ok
brassratgirl_mod: to clarify, does that mean everyone whose picture is listed?
edsaperia_ldn: No firm contract possible at this stage, but they've confirmed as much as an email will allow.
edsaperia_ldn: Well, we might not manage to get the whole of the wikimedia community to keynote.
edsaperia_ldn: But the other individuals have promised to speak.
brassratgirl_mod: :) I mean all of the people pictured on the front page of the bid, of whom there are quite a few!
edsaperia_ldn: I confirm this.
James_F: OK, thank you London bid. Are there any further questions from jury members and non-jury members?
edsaperia_ldn: Please do continue to ask questions on our talk page. And please don't be afraid to be specific with questions; it's more helpful than "Can you talk more about _____".
Anthere: I think we need to reaffirm our concern with regards to budget
Anthere: with different views on the matter amongst jury memmbers
Anthere: but with concern I think from all of us
Anthere: some are worried the income will not be there
edsaperia_ldn: Understood.
Anthere: others consider it is too high, period
edsaperia_ldn: We are working with an experienced company, and we will be pragmatic; we will raise what we can, and produce an event from it.
Anthere: I'd like to see completed with more details info about "cutdowns if necessary"
edsaperia_ldn: But... be bold!
James_F: OK. :-)
brassratgirl_mod: we will likely have more questions for the talk page
edsaperia_ldn: Please do.
brassratgirl_mod: and ... will proceed from there :) Thanks for all your work so far!
edsaperia_ldn: We will continue to monitor it.
edsaperia_ldn: The more precise your questions are, the quicker we can supply answers.
James_F: Right, I'm going to close it now.
James_F: Thank you everyone.