Wikimedia Australia/Meeting 5/Log

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The fifth meeting took place on December 2nd, 2006. A summary is at Wikimedia Australia/Meeting 5/Summary.

Saturday 2 December, 2006

Times are AEDT.
[21:11] <Angela> shall we start now? the first point on the agenda is What happened to the committees?
[21:11] <Angela> this was the press and education committees described at Wikimedia Australia/Committees
[21:12] <Angela> does anyone know anything about the education one?
[21:12] <Angela> or has discussion just stalled?
[21:13] <Mike42> Seems like people just forgot about it and it's gone idle
[21:13] <enochlau> There doesn't seem to ahve been much discussion on Wikimedia Australia/Education Committee since August
[21:14] <Mike42> Page last edited 26 Aug
[21:14] <enochlau> although i think we should set that aside for the moment. i think it's more important that we go to the organisational committee
[21:14] <Angela> Yes, that's true.
[21:14] <enochlau> we really should have WMA set up in some form soon so we can make a good bid for 2008 wikimania - i hear the bids are opening earlier in the year than usual
[21:15] <Angela> the organisation group page is Wikimedia Australia/Organisation Group but it's inactive since July
[21:15] <Mike42> Ok then, so the incorporation name
[21:15] <Angela> 2008 bids are likely to be very early next year.
[21:15] <Angela> just going back to committees for a minutes,
[21:16] <Angela> For the press committee, I think we need to formalise a list of press contacts and make sure press can easily access that and make sure the communications committee knows who to send Australian press to.
[21:16] <Mike42> ah, ok
[21:16] <Angela> Would just making a page on meta for that be ok or do people not want their phone numbers etc published there? perhaps just one person should hold that info and be able to act as an intermediary to the press?
[21:16] <enochlau> ok although should we invite press people to mail the mailing list directly?
[21:16] <Mike42> Should there be a page on listing people who are willing to be contacted
[21:16] <enochlau> like with david adams, how did he find us?
[21:17] <Angela> Enochlau: that might work, though they're often just asking for phone numbers.
[21:17] <Angela> I don't remember how David Adams found us.
[21:17] <enochlau> let me check my email, i think someone noted it in the mailing list
[21:18] <Mike42> And for anyone wondering, that artile will be published mid december according to an email David sent me
[21:18] <enochlau> actually no, the first thing we heard on the mailing list is from you, angela
[21:18] <enochlau> yes, it's the december 14 edition
[21:18] <enochlau> did you get interviewed as well?
[21:18] <Angela> Yes.
[21:18] <Mike42> enochlau: Yes, me Daniel and Riana as well as others
[21:19] <enochlau> back to the issue of a press contact, i think that would be a good idea to list someone's contact details if they're ok with it
[21:19] <Mike42> What we said to him can be found here: w:User:Daniel.Bryant/The Age
[21:19] <enochlau> but im thinking that they might have trouble finding it if we put it on meta
[21:20] <Angela> there's a list on the private wiki at for press contact info, so if people want to send me phone numbers to put on that, it might help for any press going through that committee (press at emails go through there)
[21:20] <Mike42> enochlau: So that's why may be best
[21:20] <Mike42> Ah, I see
[21:20] <Angela> there is this but it only lists me so far: Wikimedia:Press room
[21:21] <Angela> So, let me know if you want to be added to that one if you don't have edit access there.
[21:21] <enochlau> right ok, perhaps this offer should be noted on the committee subpage
[21:21] <Mike42> Do you need phone numbers or just e-mail?
[21:21] <Angela> Phone numbers are helpful, though they could be on the private wiki.
[21:22] <enochlau> im thinking that phone nos can be optional, as most journos are comfortable with using email
[21:22] <enochlau> and they can ask via email for your no if they want to talk to you
[21:23] <Mike42> Well, I keep my phone number private, but I'd be fine with my e-mail being listed ( with my name (Michael Billington)
[21:23] <enochlau> (hmm everyone else seems to have refused to have their photo taken for the age :P)
[21:23] <enochlau> Mike42: which city are you in?
[21:23] <Angela> Ok, I'll update these pages after the meeting.
[21:23] <Mike42> enochlau: Outer Eastern Melbourne
[21:24] <enochlau> ok, im happy to have my contact listed as well: elau8465 at, full name Enoch Lau
[21:24] <enochlau> better spread of geography =)
[21:24] <Mike42> enochlau: I'm currently living here: w:Mount Dandenong
[21:24] <enochlau> picturesque
[21:24] <Angela> Ok, so discussion of structure is next.
[21:24] <Mike42> Sure
[21:25] <Angela> I have a contact at QUT who said there's a possibility of getting pro bono legal advice on setting up the chapter from ***
[21:25] <Angela> I think this will useful in chooisng a structure, but I haven't followed up on that yet.
[21:26] <enochlau> yes, i was thinking along similar lines, i can imagine that quite a few law firms would be willing to help for free
[21:26] <Angela> the discussion on structure at Talk:Wikimedia Australia/Organisation Group has some things Nathan found it, but nothing's happened there since July
[21:26] <enochlau> should we approach some law firms/legal professors?
[21:26] <enochlau> there are a number of law students around (me, bainer and a few others) but im not sure what level of expertise everyone has
[21:27] <Angela> this contact is in Brisbane. is anyone based there who could go and meet with him if they do agree to give advice for this?
[21:27] <enochlau> welcome!
[21:28] <Mike42> Well, I know Simeon is in Brisbane, but he isn't involved with Wikimedia Australia
[21:28] <bainer> hey everyone. I'm a bit late
[21:28] <Mike42> Hello there bainer :D
[21:28] <Werdnum> uh.. is the meeting still on?
[21:28] <Mike42> Werdnum: Yep
[21:28] <bainer> what have we covered so far?
[21:29] <Angela> Structure and committees so far.
[21:29] <enochlau> press contacts, the need to get set up soon, structure, legal advice for structure
[21:29] <Angela> If there's no one in Brisbane, I'll see if I can just talk to him by phone instead.
[21:30] <Angela> but I'll ask on the mailing list since there aren't many people here. I'm sure there must be some people in Brisbane :)
[21:30] <enochlau> yes that sounds good
[21:30] <enochlau> in that case, i think we should draw up a list of questions or issues that we would like them to give advice on?
[21:31] <Angela> Yes, that would be great.
[21:31] <Angela> Wikimedia Australia/Legal questions
[21:32] <enochlau> do that now? or after the meeting
[21:32] <Angela> Anytime after.
[21:33] <enochlau> alright
[21:34] <Angela> is there anything else to say about the structure or shall we move onto the timeline?
[21:34] <Mike42> Um, not sure if it fits under structure, but..
[21:34] <Mike42> what state will WMA be based in?
[21:34] <Mike42> Looks like it's down to NSW and VIC
[21:35] <enochlau> i think that's something we should ask the lawyers on
[21:35] <enochlau> there are probably legal ramifications apart from issues of preference and practicality
[21:35] <Mike42> ah, ok
[21:35] <Angela> Yes, it's partly a legal issue, partly finance, partly how many Wikimedians are there.
[21:37] <bainer> I've missed the discussion on structure, but if we choose something other than a company we're going to have to choose a particular state
[21:38] <Angela> I think we should consider the company option as well though. it's what Wikimedia UK did I believe.
[21:38] <enochlau> there's still incorporation though for a company isn't there?
[21:38] <enochlau> states still control incorporation as we all know ;)
[21:38] <bainer> incorporation officially takes place within a certain state but really it doesn't matter where we operate
[21:38] <bainer> for something like an incorporated association, we'd be completely controlled by state law
[21:39] <enochlau> ah ok, i see
[21:40] <Angela> I don't know what there is to say about the timeline, but we need to make sure things don't stall quite so much in future. the discussions have been basically dead since July. do you think more IRC meetings would motivate people to move things on faster?
[21:40] <enochlau> i think more *in person* meetings
[21:40] <enochlau> once we get proper legal advice, i think a bunch of us should just get together in sydney/melb and attempt to get as much paperwork done as possible
[21:41] <Mike42> The Melbourne meetup isn't getting very far, discussion stalls too often
[21:42] <enochlau> bugger
[21:42] <enochlau> sydney people should get together sometime soon i think, we havent met since feb this year
[21:43] <Mike42> ok, note that down, a new Sydney meetup needs to be planned
[21:43] <Angela> Ok.
[21:43] <Angela> what about the incorporation name (Wikimedia Australia or something else?)
[21:43] <Mike42> Wikimedia Australia sounds good
[21:43] <enochlau> any issues with trademark?
[21:44] <bainer> yeah, that's fine.
[21:44] <enochlau> how long will it take to get permission?
[21:44] <Angela> We'd have to get a trademark agreement with the Foundation, but I don't see that being a problem.
[21:44] <enochlau> great
[21:44] <enochlau> incidentally, is the trademark registered in aust?
[21:44] <Angela> Not that I know of.
[21:45] <Angela> I was assuming we'd need to incorporate before doing that, but I don't know for sure.
[21:45] <Angela> I was hoping Nathan would be here to give feedback from chapter committee on the issues with the UK chapter which is officially called "Wiki Educational Resources", not Wikimedia UK. Perhaps he can do that via the mailing list instead. All of the other chapters are called "Wikimedia something".
[21:45] <enochlau> i guess there's an advantage to being called something else because it implies that our interests are more general than just promoting wikimedia projects
[21:46] <enochlau> but wikimedia australia is a good name i think, it represents who we are
[21:47] <Angela> Yes, I agree.
[21:48] <enochlau> ok, i think we've sorted that out... we'll get legal advice, then proceed by way of IRC or in person meetings with further discussion
[21:49] <enochlau> shall we move onto the timeline?
[21:49] <enochlau> wikimania bids are going to be early, but how early?
[21:49] <bainer> hmm, ATMOSS is telling me that the Foundation registered the trademark "Wikimedia" here in September
[21:50] <Angela> Oh, interesting.
[21:50] <Angela> For wikimania, there's no definite date set for the next bidding round, but we don't need to be an official chapter to put a bid in.
[21:50] <bainer> actually, it just seems to be an international registration of the existing registration in the US
[21:51] <enochlau> ah ok, that would make sense, it would be horrendous to register in every country manually...
[21:51] <Angela> The only issue with Wikimania might be whether companies are willing to agree to be sponsors without there being an Australian organisation to deal with.
[21:51] <enochlau> that's very true, although could they do potential sponsorship agreements with the US foundation?
[21:52] <Angela> Yes, and Taipei managed to get sponsorship without being a chapter.
[21:52] <Angela> Perhaps we need to decide on structure before knowing what the timeline can be.
[21:53] <enochlau> ok, it's possible without a chapter, but aren't the wikipedians in china/taiwan/hong kong more active than we are in meeting up etc?
[21:53] <Angela> Yes, they are. some of them meet weekly.
[21:54] <Mike42> Well, wikipedians in China are fairly few compared to enwiki, but highly dedicated to dodging the government
[21:54] <Mike42> *and meeting
[21:54] <Angela> That's not such an issue in Taiwan as in mainland China.
[21:55] <Angela> I wonder if we should aim for something smaller scale before putting in a bid, like an Australian conference rather than the main Wikimania.
[21:55] <bainer> a la Taiwan
[21:55] <Angela> Yes.
[21:55] <Mike42> Hello DavidGerard
[21:55] <Angela> It would give us a better chance of winning the bid but also show whether or not we actually have enough people willing to organise this.
[21:56] <DavidGerard> good morning
[21:56] <enochlau> morning!?
[21:56] <bainer> I think that would be a good idea. there were some people very interested in Wikimania down here, but I doubt we have the critical mass for a bid
[21:56] * DavidGerard is in london
[21:56] <DavidGerard> but has an australian passport!
[21:56] <enochlau> cool =)
[21:56] <bainer> 10:57 AM GMT
[21:56] <enochlau> that isn't a bad idea either
[21:56] <Mike42> 9:57pm AEDT
[21:57] * Angela wonders if DavidGerard wants to swap that for a British one
[21:57] <DavidGerard> no, i can get both. traalalalala.
[21:59] <Angela> Perhaps the conference should be discussed at the melbourne meetup next week.
[21:59] <Angela> the next question on the agenda is do we need a temporary board/governing committee?
[21:59] <enochlau> the question is, what is there to govern?
[21:59] <Angela> good question :)
[21:59] <Angela> We have Wikimedia Australia/Organisation Group which I think is enough until we do actually incorporate.
[22:00] <Mike42> Depends... how temporary, and can't we just all be on the same level?
[22:00] <enochlau> at least for the time being, i think consensus is working fine
[22:00] <Angela> Yes.
[22:00] <enochlau> is there anyone else from sydney? want to meet up?
[22:01] <Angela> I assume that when we incorporate people will need to be named as officers or whatever, but there's no reason not to continue doing things by consensus.
[22:02] <bainer> it is still a fairly small group
[22:03] <Angela> the last point on the agenda is "legal help" but I guess we already discussed that. Is there anything else to add, or anything else that wasn't on the agenda?
[22:04] <enochlau> bainer: hmm "wikipedia" isn't registered though
[22:04] <Mike42> I think getting greater involvement would be a good thing...
[22:04] <Mike42> There's a lot of Australian Wikipedians who aren't involved with WMA or even reading the AWNB
[22:05] <enochlau> should we try and foster more of a sense of community on the AWNB page on enwiki?
[22:05] <Angela> Yes, and also try and encourage everyone to join the mailing list.
[22:06] <enochlau> it's a little dry, and the topics of discussion are rather specific to the people discussion them
[22:06] <Mike42> We should maybe announce IRC meetings on AWNB as well, because the channel peak is 10, 'twould be good if we had more
[22:06] <bainer> enochlau: no, it seems the Foundation did the international registration of "Wikimedia" through WIPO, but not any of the other trademarks
[22:08] <enochlau> alright, so to summarise what we need to do: work out what questions to ask the lawyers, get the legal advice, promote things more, organise more in person meetings
[22:08] <Mike42> Sounds good
[22:08] <Angela> Yes.
[22:08] <Mike42> Anyone here want to save the log or shall I?
[22:09] <Angela> I will, but if anyone would like to write a summary, please put it at Wikimedia Australia/Meeting 5/Summary
[22:09] <Mike42> Ok, let's call this meeting closed then