Talk:Language committee

Language subcommittee (contact page about requests)

Please add any questions or feedback to the language subcommittee here on this page.

Archives:

• 2007
• 2008

Batches awaiting approval

The following requests will be verified for inclusion in upcoming batches of approvals. Please don't edit this section; to request updates, see "Requests for updates" below.

• May 2008
  • Wikinews Czech
  • Wikipedia Fiji Hindi
  • Wikipedia Karakalpak
  • Wikipedia Moksha
  • Wikipedia Sakha
  • Wikipedia Silesian
  • Wikipedia Sranan Tongo
  • Wikisource Limburgish
  • Wikiversity Czech
  • Wikiversity Dutch
  • Wikiversity Portuguese

Requests for updates

Dutch Wikiversity

Hello, I have proposed Dutch Wikiversity and I was wondering if it could be approved or rejected. The test project is running, and all the other requriments are met. Thanks. (Red4tribe 18:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

Unfortunately, not all requirements are met. One of the requirements is, correct me if I'm wrong, at leat 10 users actively working on the test: This is not the case. --OosWesThoesBes 18:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Finnish Wikiversity

I think the finnish wikiversity is ready for approval, only 28.61 is untranslated in WMF extensions. --83.178.0.157 16:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello 83. The policy requires roughly 100% translation for a language with existing projects. You're almost there. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 21:08:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

ARZ and MHR

I think Wikipedia Egyptian Arabic and Wikipedia Meadow Mari is successful projects! M.M.S. 14:33, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikiquotes in historical languages

If historical languages are (theoretically at least) eligible to have their own Wikisource edition, Wikiquote projects should also be permissible. Think of a collection of famous quotes by ancient Greek philosophers in the original language. Wouldn't this be fully legitimate and valuable content? --Johannes Rohr 10:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I would agree to that. GerardM 07:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Generally I agree but I think also it depends. I am not sure if we have to separate the ancient/classical Greek Wikisource from the modern Wikisource. Then to which should the medieval Greek text go? Or while there are requests for antique/classical Japanese Wikipedia (two types are now on Incubator), but the (modern) Japanese Wikisource has already corrected documents in this style or real medieval text (for example, s:ja:宇治拾遺物語). So I think it good to retain the possibility of launching historical language projects as a general principal, that if a certain language project should be separated into the modern one and the historical one (or ones in some cases) are better to be decided by those who know the language very well - the community who are speaking that language. --Aphaia 09:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, in cases where a modern successor exists, it would be preferable to have both in one Wikisource edition. However, there are also classical languages with no modern successor. --Johannes Rohr 11:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Or classical languages with many successors which we cannot determine one sole legitimate heir among them (e.g. latin). --Aphaia 13:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Lingua Franca Nova

We are anxiously awaiting your decision regarding our request for a Lingua Franca Nova Wikipedia. We have met, we believe, all the requirements, including an ISO code. The only issue remaining is the issue of sufficient recognition. In that regard, we are mentioned in every overview of auxlangs I can find, as well as having been discussed to one degree or another in all the general auxlang discussion groups. We have a group of our own with 200 members and an active wiki with over 1200 good pages, over 1,600,000 views, and nearly 15,000 edits since we began (none "robotic"). We have 300 registered users, about 30 regularly active editors, and 5 administrators. We estimate that about 30 people are fluent or near fluent in LFN, with an additional 300 or so with some reading ability.

We strongly desire to become a part of the wikipedia community. Thanks for your time and attention. George Boeree 19:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe interesting to consult: the article in en:WP. Since 1965. Less than 100 speakers. Blanke Internationale Plansprachen does not mention it.--Ziko-W 20:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The first publication of lfn was online in 1998. Blanke's book was published in 1985. There are more than 200 speakers, but the barrage of criticisms made it easier to simply say "< 100." The hostility of a number of people - even towards the en:WP article - has certainly taken us by surprise.

Once again, I would like a response to our request. George Boeree 00:23, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion transferred from the metapub

Proposal to switch to ISO 639-3 codes

So far the domain names of WikiMedia are using a hotchpotch of language codes. The two letter codes like en: de: fr: nl: etc. are obsolete ISO 639-2 codes, for some of the more 'exotic' languages we are already forced to use ISO 639-3 three letter codes. Can we please be more consistent?

There are good reasons why ISO switched to three letter codes. There simply are not enough two letter combinations for all languages and some of them are terribly confusing, e.g. sw stands for Swahili but is regularly taken to mean Swedish and ch stands for Chamorro but don't tell the Swiss that! See e.g. here and on the Chamorro wiktionary itself.

When is WikiMedia going to do something about this problem? Please let us convert to strictly three letter codes! I realize that that is a big job because all names have to be changed, but the longer we wait the bigger the problem. Jcwf 23:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC) nl:wikt:Gebruiker:Jcwf

Perhaps Wikimedia could create a rule to only allow new wikis under three letter codes. Additionally Wikimedia could create three letter code redirects to all existing two letter code projects. And we should allow all projects to switch to three letter code, if they want to. But I think it is unrealistic to force all projects to use three letter codes. This proposal will never find a majority. And actually neither ISO 639-2 nor ISO 639-1 are obsolete. I don't see any problem with using codes from different codesets. If the Chamorro community has a problem with their specific code, I propose you talk to the Language subcommittee about switching to the code cha. But there is no reason to switch all codes. --::Slomox:: >< 01:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Not if you are oblivious to the advantages of consistency. It reminds me of satellites impacting on Mars.. Kilometers versus miles I believe.. And yes the ISO codes are the only system the wiktionaries have sort out 4000 languages or so. The Dutch wiktionary has decided to switch to three letter codes some time ago, but we are forced to write silly things like :*{{eng}}: {{trad|en|silly}} to make it work, i.e. we are forced to maintain two systems. Jcwf 00:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Consistency like "keeping discussions consistent by not cluttering them over several places"? Please name a realistic example (besides Petersburg, FL, or San Francisco being erased by crashing satellites) how using ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2/3 side by side could mean any danger or just inconvenience. --::Slomox:: >< 03:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

The 'cluttering' was inconsistency suggested by you Slomox. I also mentioned at least three examples but you consistently ignore them. But then why would you worry that a tiny language community like Chamorro is expected to clean up the mess the Swiss leave behind? Jcwf 22:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I suggested you ask the subcommittee about the special case of Chamorro, not to copy the whole discussion and to carry on discussion in two places.

Your examples are not examples for disadvantages brought by inconsistency through using two systems, but are a general problem of any codes. It is imaginable that there are three-letter codes which could be mistaken for another language, when the corresponding two-letter code is not misleading. If there is a strong feeling in Swahili or Chamorro community to switch to three-letter codes, I would support it. But I would not support a general move to three-letter codes. --::Slomox:: >< 19:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The ISO-639-1 codes will be used in the ISO-639-6. The notion that the alpha 2 codes are obsolete is wrong. The ISO-639-6 will be alpha 4 but when a linguistic entity matches exactly with a language recognised earlier, the oldest code will be used. GerardM 07:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Then I give up: there is nothing worse than people you consistently changing standards back and forth. These ISO-morons should be shot. Jcwf 22:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

There is no inconsistency; the number after 639 is not a version number. These are 3 closely-related but separate standards. 639-1 and 639-2 are subsets of 639-3, not earlier versions. For a more detailed explanation, see "What's the plan for ISO 639-3 and RFC 3066 ter?" on the ietf-languages mailing list.

Furthermore, languages are synchronized; if a wiki already exists for a language, all new wikis will use the same code. If you want to suggest renaming existing wikis, please discuss on the Foundation-l mailing list instead (the language subcommittee does not have jurisdiction over existing wikis). —{admin} Pathoschild 01:49:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

stq vs. frs

Somewhat related, stq: should have been ISO 639-2 frs. The ISO 639-3 folks (SIL) tried to synchronize their work with 639-2 before the standard was published, but obviously they missed the relatively new frs and ended up with two codes for the same language. It's no disaster, stq won't be reused for anything else, but still annoying. I had fixed the Wikipedia article, but as it is, somebody unfixed it three weeks later not bothering with an edit history. 217.184.142.19 00:52, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

What makes you think stq should be frs or that stq is not valid ? BOTH are valid ISO-639-3 codes. There is currently a discussion going about exactly this topic on the IETF mailing list about this as well, they make a distinction between the two. GerardM

The IETF archives seem to be public ([1]). Can you point us to the discussion? --::Slomox:: >< 12:56, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I found it by myself (through the link provided one section above). [2] But could you outline the role of IETF in some short words? Are they able to change codes or what is their relationship to ISO 639? --::Slomox:: >< 13:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Moldovan language project

Please reopen the Moldovan projectthat has been blocked for political reasons. It is very inconsiderate and premature to close the section in the Moldovan language (Cyrillic alphabet). It is still official in the republic of Transnistria. Whether or not the republic itself is reconized politically is a matter of a political debate. It has still existed for 17 years and is unlikely to vanish in the near future. Also, most Moldovans in the neighboring Ukraine (a 300,000 strong minority) use the cyrillic script. Besdies, literacy in Eastern Romance language was started and later existed for 500 years in a cyrillic script. Other examples: Tatar Wiki exists in the Latin script even though Cyrillic is the only official alphabet in Tatarstan, we also have a Serb-Croation project in additian to Serbian and Croation. Low levels of activity that the project had earlier is explained by low levels of internet usage in the rural regions of Eastern Europe but this is likely to change in the near future. 68.157.65.137 14:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Will you contribute there if it will be unblocked? A.M.D.F. 18:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The Moldovan Wikipedia was closed as a result of community discussion, not by decision of the language subcommittee. The language subcommittee does not have jurisdiction over project closures. Please discuss this on the Foundation-l mailing list. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:22:23, 08 May 2008 (UTC)

Continue waiting...

The following discussion is closed.

Hi all! Well... i write this message because the last approved batch of wikis is not yet created, and nobody say anything in the bugzilla... :S

The extremaduran wiki was approved two months ago, and the Hungarian wikinews has already 100 days approved, so... what happened with the "GFDL 1.3"? Anybody can tell us when the wikis will be moved? How will they be moved? We will have to change all the links, articles, categories... with the prefix "Wp/ext"? Thank you! Better 09:53, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

PD.- I know the language subcommittee is not guilty of this delay, but well... if somebody could answer me those questions... Better 09:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• It was decided not to wait for GFDL 1.3 and create the batch; the rest in with developers according to my understanding.--Yaroslav Blanter 13:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
• Pages will move automatically. A.M.D.F. 16:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Any news? --HalanTul 21:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Anybody knows if there are news? Could anybody say a date? Better 16:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

• It does not depend on any of us. --Yaroslav Blanter 06:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I know, but well... nobody knows anything new? Better 14:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

All the wikis has been created. 83.178.158.148 11:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you :) --OosWesThoesBes 13:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

You have to copy the content over there manually yourself though, because these wikis are under a dual license, which the Incubator content isn't. You must not copy content you haven't made yourself; everyone will have to copy their own content. It is inconvenient, I know, but it's the simplest way of going through that license change. Jon Harald Søby 16:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll move the content over. See the Foundation-l thread for a discussion of the licensing issues. —{admin} Pathoschild 17:36:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand... have we (the users of the approved wikis) got to do anything? At the momment we are waiting. On the other hand, some people started copying articles at ext wikipedia, so i think they would have to be deleted, isn't it? Thank you! Better 18:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a problem with interwiki links too, an aragonese sysop made a interwiki link to the new extwiki in anwiki, but it doesn't work, anybody know how to fix it? Thanks! Better 09:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It's fixed now. Thak you! Better 18:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)