Grants talk:PEG/WM PH/Philippine WikiCon 2013
- I support this proposal. Polimerek (talk) 17:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- i support this proposal. --3BRBS (talk) 22:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- After carefully reading the discussion with all the questions bellow, it seems like it's worth supporting. The only problematic thing to me was the excess number of scholarship planned, but Roel explained a very good point on it and now it seems reasonable to spend that money in order to reach out to many other Wikipedians.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
- --Ilario (talk) 09:25, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Comments and questions
I like the look of this project.
May I ask a few questions?
- The languages at issue: I see that Kapapangan, like Tagalog, is an Austronesian language. Are they close? How different from each other are those other languages listed? Will Tanvir's study into the problems of small WPs be useful?
- The second and third bullets under "Measures of success" don't really make sense. Each needs to be a threshold following the lead "if" ... if we do/achieve/get [number/quality etc]"
- Will the conference be conducted in English or Tagalog (or both)?
- Hiring of equipment: good move. The projector rental seems steep at $125; I'm surprised there's not a steep refundable deposit by the hirer instead. Oh well.
- Toner at $45 to print "several documents" ... if you've just run out, I don't mind paying for toner if the rest will be used well for chapter-related purposes, I suppose. Tsk, so those robber companies back-end their profit sourcing by way overcharging for toner (like men's shaving blades ... trust capitalism).
- Courier expenses regrettable ... let's hope it won't all be needed.
- Food: here's a tip—put the really important stuff where you need effort, concentration, cooperation, straight after food breaks, not before them.
- "a group of theater students"—I wouldn't mind a rough estimate of numbers and hours, since $250 is involved.
- Umbrellas and T-shirts: I presume the logo presents no WMF trademark issue. I'm not one personally for souvenirs, but if you think it would sufficiently promote the movement, ok.
- "open discussions about several inconsistent language and translation policies hounding the Tagalog Wikipedia"—Could I suggest that you make this structured and sharp, to get people thinking and talking about the central problems? If there are opposing viewpoints, perhaps an intro by an uninvolved but knowledgeable person, followed by short presentations by people who might not necessarily agree on solutions ... followed by a clear agenda treating prepared possible solutions?
- In your report this time could you cite "Actual expenses" in the same currency as the "Allotment" for easy auditing?
- Hi Tony, thanks for your inquiries and comments. I have answered them below according to how they were numbered above.
- Despite the proximity of the languages to each other (90 kms from its centers), Kapampangan and Tagalog are unintelligible. I can say this from personal experience (but I guess secondary sources would be reliable? They have a 39.2% shared vocabulary (Dyen, 1963)), I don't understand my father's language as he is a Kapampangan, since I was already born and grew up in Manila which is in the Tagalog region. I would like to apologize I may not have paid too much attention to Tanvir's study or I may have just been simply oblivious.
- Thanks for pointing that out, I got it revised.
- Our Wikiconferences are conducted in English. In the Philippines, English is treated like "the formal language", the language of the government (laws are crafted in English), the academe, business and commerce. Tagalog (Filipino) and other native languages are the vernacular language.
- Regrettably it's steep. We could earn a lot if we'd have our own projector rented out. :)
- I like your analogy :). As the Treasurer and general custodian at the same time, all supplies we buy are turned over to me. This is the reason why storage is very important in our other grant request Grants_talk:WM_PH/Admin operation 2013.
- I'm crossing our fingers that it wouldn't be necessary, it's added work, printing invitations, agenda and all and dropping all of it to the post office/courier.
- We'd have that in mind, otherwise we'd find some seriously sleepy participants, we have a siesta culture too.
- They have committed 15 (names have been submitted to me for the printing of their certificates), but it could be more. This is the same number of people we requested to cover just about every aspect of program implementation, without putting much burden on a person or two. There would be an overall a student program coordinator who would coordinate with the project lead.
- That's a great suggestion. We're planning to bring in (hopefully) the Chairman of the Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino (Commission on the Filipino Language) who's been very active in promoting and standardizing the orthography since has assumed his post. He has come up with three drafts for the revision of the orthography update released in 2009. Several contributors in the Tagalog Wikipedia recognize the authority of KWF to handle and provide guidance in the Tagalog/Filipino language.
- We'd just be printing the Wikipedia logo. I would really like to deviate from promotional materials that would hardly be used after the event, otherwise we would have just created grabage.
- I had always presented the allotments and actual expenses in the same currency. If I understand this suggestion correctly, their conversion to the US dollar is not that anymore necessary?
- Roel, I was referring to the report for the 2012 grant. Incidentally, if the WMF approves funding for this event, it would be great to see what strategies were discussed for overcoming the translation difficulties—this is one of the WMF Board's priorities that there be "lessons learned" from funded activities. And translation is a big issue for WMF sites. (We'd like to know, then, what are the unique hurdles, and how can they be overcome?) Also, a good way to engage the community in the medium term might be to update the page Tell_us_about_Tagalog_Wikipedia here on Meta, and to create pages on the other WPs you mention. Please make them better than the English WP page in this series, which is a bit strange! Tony (talk) 13:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
- Oh of course, that's why we would have video coverage, that will help us document the event. The plan is that this will be the precursor of a series of events or mini-conferences regarding the Tagalog Wikipedia before culminating in a bigger Tagalog/Filipino conference that will culminate in the 10th year anniversary of that language project in December or Q1 of next year. -- Roel (talk) 15:03, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, Thanks for this request. Having local meetings is good way to build internal relationship and capacity. I am interesting to know did you try to find some local partners or co-organizer. Having one is very good for crating partnership with local organisation and you can save money for another projects.--MikyM (talk) 19:29, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Hi MikyM, the concept of free and open knowledge is not that yet well entrenched locally. Though we have open communications with Creative Commons Philippines and other organizations, we haven't discussed yet to pool in our resources to come up with a conference and share costs. But that just simply opened a thought to perhaps come up with a multi-organizational conference that may even be for two days. As of now, to answer your question we haven't. -- Roel (talk) 23:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi, overall the request looks very good. I'm just wondering about the excess of scholarships. Why so many? In my very quick count, ~30% of the proposed budget goes to scholarships. That's A LOT. If, say, you would limit the number of scholarships to half the amount, what would be the impact on the number of attendees? NLIGuy (talk) 21:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- It may proportionally look to be a lot because travel in the Philippines is quite expensive, and sometimes airfare is cheaper if not the same if you go to Hong Kong or other Southeast Asian countries than other places in the Philippines. It's also a single day event, I'm sure had it been a two-day conference the percentage of scholarships against the total budget will be much lower. Despite having reached 107 members (a good number are active) we are still building our network and this is a good way of reaching out to them. -- Roel (talk) 00:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Please note that this grant request is only provisionally approved, since WMPH is currently not eligible to receive grants. See the eligibility requirements for the WMF Grants Program, and in particular:
- Grantees must be in compliance with all WMF Grants Program reporting requirements and FDC reporting requirements and the terms of the grant agreement signed by the grantee or the grantee's authorized representative. Grantees seeking additional funds while in non-compliance of existing grant terms will be required to come into compliance before their request for additional funds be considered.
Note also the discussion here outlining our requests for WMPH to complete the report and get back in compliance. This grant will not be fully approved until WMPH is back in compliance.
With questions, please contact grants at wikimedia dot org.
- This request is now confirmed as funded, since WMPH has submitted its past due grant reports for Chapter Start Up 2 and Wiki Loves Monuments and is now back in compliance with grants program requirements. Cheers, Winifred Olliff (Grants Administrator) talk 17:20, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Report past due
This report is now past due. Please complete so that WMPH may get back in compliance and we may move forward with Grants_talk:WM_PH/Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013. Please let us know if you have any questions about what is needed to complete the report. We see that you have already made progress on your draft report. Thank you, Winifred Olliff (Grants Administrator) talk 04:09, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hi Winifred. We have already submitted the grant report for review. Please do inform us of any questions regarding the report. --seav (talk) 17:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)