Requests for comment/Probleme in der Georgische Wikipedia

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Dialog-information on.svgThis is a subpage; for more information, see the Requests for comments page.


Probleme in der Georgische Wikipedia[edit]

ich bin Georgierin, lebe mehr als 20J ahre in Deutschland und deshalb schreibe ich auf Deutsch. Ich arbeite seit 2005, kurz nach ihrer Gründung, in der georgischen Wikipedia und war auch Administrator. Schwierige Bedingungen gibt es in der georgischen Wikipedia schon lange. Die georgische Wikipedia befindet sich seit 2015 in den Händen von nur drei Administratoren, die mittlesweile selbstherrlich handeln. (Der Rest der Administratoren wurde in kurzer Zeit entfernt. Es gab eine Zeit, in der wir 10 Administratoren waren), was auf eine speziell verabschiedete neue Regel zurückzuführen ist: Wenn der Administrator nicht innerhalb von 3 Monaten mindestens 500 allgemeine und 50 administrative Änderungen vorgenommen hat, wird dem Benutzer der Administratorstatus ohne Abstimmung entzogen. s.ka:ვიკიპედია:ადმინისტრატორები/ადმინისტრატორის სტატუსის მოხსნა.

Diese Regel gilt jedoch anscheinend seitdem nicht mehr für die verbliebenen Administratoren.Die beiden Administratoren Administrator David1010 und Administrator MIKHEIL haben zeitweilig keine ausreichende Anzahl von Beiträgen vorzuweisen. z.B. wurde mein Antrag, den Administrator Status von Administrator David1010 aufzuheben vom Administrator Administrator MIKHEIL so beantwortet:„Hallo. Ich kann bestätigen, dass David1010 in letzter Zeit ernsthafte Gesundheitsprobleme hatte. Folglich ist in diesem Zeitpunkt eine Diskussion darüber für ihn darüber nicht wichtig. Daher halte ich derzeit alle Maßnahmen in diese Richtung für unmoralisch und werde diese Diskussion ebenfalls abschließen. Ich wünsche David1010 gute Gesundheit!” s. ვიკიპედია:ადმინისტრატორები/სტატუსის მოხსნა. Das war bei weitem nicht der einzige Verstoß gegen diese Regel. Was sollte das sein? Ich bin sicher, dass dies in einer demokratischen Gesellschaft nicht passiert wäre.

Der Administrator MIKHEIL kandidierte ohne Erfolg 2016 auch für den Steward s. Stewards/Elections 2016/Votes/MIKHEIL. Sehen: Stewards/Elections 2016/Questions.

Vor kurzem hat Benutzer :Jaba1977 meine dauerhafte Sperrung beantragt (siehe Administrator:MIKHEIL Diskussion:ka:მომხმარებლის განხილვა:MIKHEIL/არქივი 19#ისევ ცანგალას ცრუ ბრალდებების შესახებ), letztendlich wurde ich für einen Monat blockiert (Vielen Dank an Administrator Otogi, weil er eine dauerhafte Blockierung verhindert hat), weil ich dem Benutzer die Wahrheit gesagt habe.

In der georgischen Wikipedia kommt es vor, dass jemand, der die Wahrheit sagt bestraft wird, zum Beispiel der ehemalige Administrator Benutzer:Rastrelli F wurde für einen Monat gesperrt und der ehemalige Administrator Benutzer:Deu (s. Requests for comment/Vote of confidence on sysops and unblock for user Deu on kawiki) hat ab dem 20. Januar 2019 einen permanenten Block von Administrator:MIKHEIL, weil beide ihm die Wahrheit gesagt haben.

Aktive Benutzer werden gelegentlich, wenn sie ihre Meinung äußern, von den Administratoren bedroht oder gleich blockiert Benutzer:Gobrona (wurde für drei Monat gesperrt). Das ist möglich, weil unsere Reglungen für Benutzersperrung seit 2015 nicht geändert würden, und damit Blockierungen ohne Aussprache möglich sind.

Zwei von drei Administratoren (David1010, MIKHEIL) sind Bürokraten, wir haben kein Schiedsverfahren. An wen kann man sich in georgischen Wikipedia wenden? Der Kreis ist geschlossen.

Sie, die Stewards, sind letzte Hoffnung der georgischen Wikipedia. Helfen sie uns bitte.

Eine schöne Weihnachten und guten Rutsch im Neue Jahr.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen --Zangala (talk) 11:27, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Translation

I am Georgian, I have been living in Germany for more than 20 years and therefore I write in German. I have been working in the Georgian Wikipedia since 2005 and I was also an administrator shortly after its creation. Difficult conditions have existed in the Georgian Wikipedia for a long time. Since 2015, the Georgian Wikipedia has been in the hands of only three administrators, who have since become autocratic. (The rest of the administrators were removed in a short time. There was a time when we were 10 administrators), which is due to a specially adopted new rule: if the administrator has not made at least 500 general and 50 administrative changes within 3 months, the user's administrator status is revoked without a vote. s.ka:ვიკიპედია:ადმინისტრატორები/ადმინისტრატორის სტატუსის მოხსნა.

However, it seems that this rule no longer applies to the remaining administrators.The two administrators Adminitor David1010 and Adminitor MIKHEIL temporarily failed to maintain a sufficient number of posts.For example, my request to remove the administrator status of Administrator David1010 was answered by Administrator Adminitor MIKHEIL as follows: "Hi. I can confirm that David1010 has had serious health problems recently. Consequently, at this time a discussion about it is not important for him about it. Therefore, I consider any action in this direction immoral at this time and will close this discussion as well. I wish David1010 good health!" s. ვიკიპედია:ადმინისტრატორები/სტატუსის მოხსნა. This wasnot the only one violation of this rule. What was it supposed to be? I am sure that in a democratic society this would not have happened.

Adminitor MIKHEIL also ran unsuccessfully for steward in 2016 s. Stewards/Elections 2016/Votes/MIKHEIL. See: Stewards/Elections 2016/Questions.

Recently User :Jaba1977 requested my permanent block (see Administrator:MIKHEIL Discussion:ka:მომხმარებლის განხილვა:MIKHEIL/არქივი 19#ისევ ცანგალას ცრუ ბრალდებების შესახებ),finally I was blocked for a month (Thanks to Administrator Administrator Otogi for preventing permanent block) for telling the user the truth.

In Georgian Wikipedia it happens that someone who tells the truth is punished, for example former administrator User:Rastrelli F was blocked for one month and former administrator User:Deu (see Requests for comment/Vote of confidence on sysops and unblock for user Deu on kawiki) has a permanent block from Administrator:MIKHEIL from January 20, 2019 because both told him the truth.

Active users are occasionally, threatened by the administrators or blocked right away when they express their opinion,User:Gobrona (was banned for three month). This is possible because our rules for user blocking would not be changed since 2015, and thus blocking without debate is possible.

Two out of three administrators (David1010, MIKHEIL) are bureaucrats, we have no arbitration. Who to turn to in Georgian Wikipedia? The circle is closed.

You, stewards, are last hope of Georgian Wikipedia. Please help us.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Best regards --Zangala (talk) 11:27, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment[edit]

comment by M.[edit]

user Zangala, who is most experienced user in Georgian Wikipedia and one of the persons, who started contributing it on its early days, is victim of personal attacks by sysops of Georgian wiki. On December 22 User Zangala received 1 month block just for nothing. Sysop, blocking Zanagala, mentioned that Zangala was blocked because of vandalism, but there is no evidence, that Zangala did any kind of vandalism, and even sysop had not provided any link and proof of that. Why I think that Zangala is victim of personal attacks? Zangala was blocked several times and none of the blocks were justified. On May 23 Zangala was blocked for a month and sysop explained this block was for (I quote here) "misusing the resources", which is very ridiculous reason. Right after that User Rastreli opened topic in Incidents section of the forum of kawiki, to discuss the necessity of blocking Zangala, but the topic was immediately closed by sysop and user Rastreli was blocked for one month and sysop even removed comment made by user Gagavaa which is against every rule of Wikipedia. I did not mention sysops by name, because there are 3 sysops who always back up each other and there is noone and nowhere to appeal, there is no mechanism in Georgian Wikipedia to resolve such disputes and problems I described above. I think (1) Zangala Should be unblocked, (2) vote of confidence of sysops should be held whit supervision of stewards, to rule out meatpuppetry and (3) arbitrate committee should be created --M. (talk) 18:20, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

comment by Zangala[edit]

Am 1. Januar 2021 beantragte der Benutzer:Jaba1977 für den Benutzer: M eine Sperrung wegen angeblicher Verstöße gegen die die Wikipedia-Regeln (Vandalismus und weitere Gründe ohne konkrete Angaben). Eine Sperrung für eine Woche wurde vom Administrator David1010 am 2. Januar mit der Begründung: "provokative Aktion und Vandalismus" ausgesprochen. ka:მომხმარებელი:M.Benutzer: M arbeitet seit 2009 in der georgischen Wikipedia.--Zangala (talk) 12:54, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Translation

On January 1, 2021, the User:Jaba1977 requested a block for the User: M because of alleged violations of the Wikipedia rules (vandalism and other reasons without concrete information). A block for one week was issued by administrator Administrator David1010 on January 2 with the reason: "provocative action and vandalism". User: M has been working in Georgian Wikipedia since 2009.--Zangala (talk) 12:54, 3 January 2021 (UTC)


comment by Deu[edit]

The problems reported by Zangala have a long history in the Georgian Wikipedia.
Until 01.09.2014 in the Georgian WIkipedia was the rule, according to which the administrator who within a five-month period does not perform 250 general and 15 administrative processing, would be warned because of inactivity. In the case of repeated one-month inactivity after the warning, the vote on the deletion of admin rights would take place.
In 2014, MIKHEIL and David1010 wanted to get rid of unwanted sysops. So they introduced a new strict rule through procedural violations that was specifically tailored to specific sysops: If an administrator within 3 months does not make 500 edits and 50 sysop actions, sysop rights will be removed without voting.
In the first half of 2018 MIKHEIL could not reach this self-imposed activity limit (January-March, February-April, March-May, April-June and 17th of April to 17th of June). Against the wiki-rule and will of the wiki community he held a vote. it was about clear meatpuppetry. By still an unlawful vote MIKHEIL retained his sysop+ rights (See details and links here, chapter four). Even after that, there were several cases when MIKHEIL could not reach the set limit. The second administrator, David1010, who is the main author of the above strict rule, also fails to comply with the mandatory amount set for the administrator (1, 2). While discussing the draft rule in 2014, David1010 (the author of the draft) said that the new rule replaced the old one only because earlier the "lazy" sysops could remain inactive for five months and achieve sufficient edits only in the sixth month. He wrote that removal of sysop rights should be done automatically: "If you do not have sufficient edits, it means that you are no longer an administrator."
But the current administrators of the Georgian Wikipedia do not apply the rule they have adopted to themselves.
It is noteworthy that two of the three sysops of the Georgian Wikipedia are bureaucrats at the same time. The same two sysops are at the same time board members of Wikimedia UG Georgia (By the way, not elected, but self-appointed). Such a concentration of power is accompanied by constant discredit and threats against unwanted users. Sysops also help to convince users that the administrator is an infallible and inviolable idol. they explain to all users that it is unacceptable to criticize an administrator. They do not respond when a user warns another user and tells them to blindly trust and obey the sysops just because they are sysops.
Added to all this is incompetence. MIKHEIL promotes plagiarism in KaWiki (see chapter three). MIKHEIL also contributes poor quality articles if they are written by his friends. He blocked me just because I objected to choosing an article full of grammatical errors as featured article.
All those who oppose all this are oppressed. Zangala is blocked, M. is blocked, I'm blocked. Many other users have also been blocked many times for no reason. It is impossible to discuss these problems in Georgian Wikipedia, because all initiatives are blocked from the very beginning. Zangala is threatened with a permanent block in the Georgian Wikipedia. Please help Georgian Wikipedia. Deu. 10:27, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

comment by გიო ოქრო[edit]

I am one of the examples of incompetent action of the administrators in Georgian Wikipedia. User OTOGI blocked me for an absurd and incomprehensible reason. The reason - "making the discussion absurd, destructive action, abuse of the status of reviwer". However he speaks below that it was my mistake and after the instruction by him I flouted (abused) the admin. There was no insult from me. It is clear from this that OTOGI is an incompetent and unworthy administrator. Georgian Wikipedia needs help from such administrator. გიო ოქრო (talk) 18:02, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Has the Georgian Wikipedia community been notified as per Requests for comment/Policy? Zoozaz1 (talk) 21:36, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, admins in KaWiki know about these Requests. These and these requests are also known to the Georgian society. But in the Georgian Wikipedia, the internal discussions on this topic are closed by the admins and the participants in the discussions are threatened with blocking. Users who write about the admins abuse on meta are also unjustifiably persecuted in Georgian Wikipedia. After I started talking about breaking the rules by the admin and encouraging plagiarism, I was blocked indefinitely. Although most of the users at that time did not agree with my blocking, I am still blocked. In addition, after Zangala opened this request on Meta, she was also blocked indefinitely. There is no significant basis for permanent blocking. Currently blocked is also user M., who participated in this discussion. User გიო ოქრო is also harassed. If you look at both the old requisites by me, those who oppose the actions of the admin are all persecuted either by constant threats or by periodic blocking. The Georgian Wikipedia community has tried several times to initiate unblocking procedure for me, Zangala and other users, but the administrators are closing these initiatives and threatening the initiators. Therefore, there are no free discussions on this topic in Georgian Wikipedia. Please read this discussion as well. Deu. 06:50, 1 May 2021 (UTC)