Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Sichuanese Mandarin

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submitted verification final decision

This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

A committee member provided the following comment:

No ISO 639-3 code. --MF-W 08:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Language code  (SILGlottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Sichuanese Mandarin Language name in English
Language name 四川话 Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q2278732 - item has currently the following values: Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality no indication Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links development wiki project, 四川话基本概况 Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.

Project name 维基百科 "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Asia/Chengdu "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit Phabricator task. It will include everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings. After creating the task, add a link to the comment.


This project has entered Wikimedia incubator. Here it is.

Arguments in favour (支持者)[edit]

  1. Support 支持四川话版本的存在!!虽然它没有ISO-639码!!粤语、吴语、赣语等什么语言版本维基百科上都都有,为什么没有四川话!若说四川话是方言,那难道粤语、吴语、赣语不是方言?强烈要求申请!!!

::According to Sichuanese is dialects but Cantonese, Min and so on aren't.C933103 08:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Although it hasn't ISO-639 code,I support the existence of Sichuanese Mandarin version.Cantonese, Wuu Chinese and Gan Chinese version are all in Wikipedia, why haven't we got version of Sichuanese Mandarin? Strongly urged to apply!
    The problem is the Sichuanese Mandarin hasn't ISO-639 code. That's a big problem. 坏坏的中华小天鱼 (留言) 11:46, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    以上翻译者 The translator of these sentences:Park1996 11:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support,四川话也算是独立的语言了,从语法等方面来讲和普通话有很大的差别。
    At least, Sichuanese is a langauage. Its grammer and more are different from Mandarin.Park1996 11:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support 四川话是属于明代官话的孑遗,语法方面与现行的「现代汉语」有显著不同,却和四大名著中不少的语法非常相近。现在缺少的就是正式的、书面的四川话表记,创立四川话版本,也是为了恢复这一富有古代白话风格的书面语言,让大家知道四川话并非只是一种口语,并且将之发扬光大,真正的让四川话使用者做到「我手写我口」!
    Sichuanese Mandarin(In fact,I prefer to call it "Sicuanese")is the relict of the Mandarin of the Ming Dynasty,and its grammar is significantly different from Modern Chinese (Mandarin).But its grammar is similar to the grammar of ancient vernacular.What's lack now is to establish the Sichuan Mandarin version to make Sichuan Mandarin,the ancient style language,more formal. With this,people who speak Sichuan Mandarin will truly achieve the goal —— "Write my language with my hands"!Keepout2010 12:46, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support,Sichuanese does not have an ISO-639 code (Mandarin does), however, I'd like to put some arguments here. The huge internal diversity of "Mandarin" is always ignored by many people intentionally or unintentionally. The divergence between some varieties of Mandarin can be far larger than that of several languages which have their own ISO-639 codes. Sometimes to be a language or a dialect is merely a political game: a branch of Lan-Yin Mandarin used by Dungans is considered as Dungan language and has its ISO-639 code. However, Lan-Yin Mandarin itself does not have that code, ironically.
    Because of the difference of vacabulary and grammer between Sichuanese and the Standard Mandarin, Sichuanese has developed its own written system since Ming Dynasty. What's more, Sichuanese is one of the only three Chinese dialects which has their own special written characters (see Sichuanese Character, and the other two varieties are Cantonese and Wu). And here is an simple example of the grammer difference between Sichuanese and standard Mandarin: standard/你吃饭没有呢?;Sichuanese/你饭吃没有喃?;English/Have you(你) had(吃) dinner(饭)?--本本一世 06:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support 四川话尽管被归为官话,但在台湾西南官话和江淮官话一起被认为南方官话以和北方话区别。四川话发音和北方话显著不同,词汇和北方话差异巨大。Szecwanese Wikipedia用汉字书写,可以很好地与中文维基百科区别开来。
    Although Szecwanese is recognized as Mandarin in China, it is separated from Northern Mandarin by Taiwanese professors as South Madarin with Jianghuai Mandarin because of the noticeable difference. Both pronouncing and vocabulary of Szecwanese are totally different from Northern Dialect and the. As Szecwanese Wikipedia is written in Chinese Characters, it presents the distinction easily.
  6. Support Unlike Siberia or California where most of the inhabitants were recent immigrants to the area for only a few generations, the history of the Sichuan people can be traced back to the Ancient Kingdom of Shu.
The Sichuanese participants have been applying to SIL International for an ISO-693 Code scm since early last month. They have even created a test version of their language at Sichuan Wikia which now has 106 articles as of this date. They also included a Romanized version to show the differences with standard mandarin. I myself have heard the conversations of a native Sichuanese speakers and its variation from standard mandarin is relatively high - sometimes to the point of near unintelligiblity. Here is a sample video of a Sichuanese speaker. --Jose77 04:46, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Support as mis-scm -- 01:13, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against (反对者)[edit]


Attention, following sentences are all write in Chinese! If you can't read Chinese, please try to use Google Translate to translate, or ask any Chinese Wikipedian who appear in this talk to translate.





(2)闽南话的书写法有权威 中华民国教育部国语推广委员会 作的“台湾闽南语推荐用字”。暂不问其完与美,但“中华民国国语委”这块牌子已经可以担“创用字法”之责。敢问维基本物,你有何权威与权利,敢“自创书面语”“自创用字法”?





⒋同属官话的四川话和普通话,其书面语极为接近,特别是在国语教育已然普及的情况下,就维基的读者而言,根本、断然、绝对不存在看不懂国语版的问题。从功能的角度来讲,实在是重复得了足。徒增维基负担,不利维基的长远发展。 故:


2.同时我也再将首问反复:维基何以敢以世间并不存在的“书面语”写作?维基何定位而至敢“自创”一门书面语出来? 此致。


  • 您好,我是四川话维基百科的活跃用户,我想用一些说辞,来表达我的观点:
谢谢您的提醒,我们会努力的! --坏坏的中华小天鱼 (留言) 09:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 其实我说……如果是这样的话那索性ZHWP也不必存在……既然ZHWP维基人大都懂英文,那索性都跑到ENWP去好啦!不过,以我的大致意思来说,就算是还没有四川话白话文,我们还是可以通过WP的方式让外地人(呃……比如我……)了解四川话,有一定的语言学价值 Park Talk 23:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 我是一名对语言文字学有少许了解的四川人,我也想借此就您所提出的几个问题一一解释:
--Keepout2010 (留言) 12:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

#Oppose. As indicated from its name, Sichuanese Mandarin, It is just a dialects of Mandarin, but Cantonese are belived as a individual language most of the time (at least to western people) C933103 04:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other discussion (中立者)[edit]

  • 语言提议方针需要ISO 639-2/3代码。 如果四川话没有ISO 639-2/3代码,我觉得这个维基百科不可以继续。 你们有没有四川话的ISO 639-3提议? (The language proposal policy requires an ISO 639-2/3 code. If Sichuanese does not have an ISO 639-2/3 code, I think this Wikipedia won't be able to go on [as in, to become a Wikipedia]. Do you have an existing ISO 639-3 proposal?) --Sky Harbor (talk) 06:49, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 这点在下正在和keepout2010筹划中,请稍等。这个需要联名签署,请大家在我的讨论页注明,并写上您的用户名和您的用户页网址,谢谢合作。(I'm now trying to apply a ISO 639-3 code with keepout2010, but this may take a while. If you are interested in this application, don't hesitate to contact me. I need your help to carry on a joint signature. --translated by 本本一世) -坏坏的中华小天鱼 (留言) 11:50, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is an existing code for Mandarin which is left unused now. Since standard Mandarin, as a variety of Chinese, took the code for Chinese (zho) to make the standard Mandarin version of wikipedia, I wonder technically if we can start the Sichuanese vision (as a variety of Mandarin) with the code of Mandarin (cmn).
BTW, How to make a ISO 639-3 proposal?--本本一世 07:48, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You may file a request with SIL International. More information on ISO 639-3 can be found here: [1]. --Sky Harbor (talk) 12:04, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't strongly approve or disapprove for following reasons. Firstly, despite that Szecwanese has a separate speaking and writing system, even original residents in Sichuan may not be capable to use them correctly, especially some special characters; Furthermore, dialects of Szecwanese varie in different regions, and as far as I am concerned, Szecwanese-speaking users in zh.wikipedia come from different areas of Sichuan, there is potential dispute among them in using this language; Another reason for my attitude is that, I have not seen zh-yue or zh-woo wikipedia succeed in both quality and quantity, I am afraid that after the new wikipedia is created, very few users really come to help it grow up. But I would say if it is really created, I will take time to contribute it. AlexHe34 02:21, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I partly agree with you. So far as I know, all languages in China exept for standard Mandarin suffers from the lack of standardization and inroduction as you mentioned. And zh-woo or zh-gan is not so successful as expected. But please consider that Sichuanese has one of the most uniform dialects and more speakers (120 million) than any other varieties of Chinese (except for standard Mandarin of course), there could be a chance. P.S. If you are interested in written Sichuanese, I highly recomend you to read Jichuntai (跻春台)Here is its Brief introduction, which is the most distinguished novel in written Sichuanese .--本本一世 07:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Until the outcome of the ISO 693 application is made known, this proposal is unable to proceed any further and should temporarily be placed on hold. --Jose77 04:46, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 希望它能不被拒绝吧,支持者跟我一起祈祷!

opinion about the section heading[edit]

"other discussion" does not necessarily mean no stand. Would it be better to remove/change the Chinese translation for this section heading? C933103 (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]