Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Traditional Greek

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Traditional Greek Wikipedia[edit]

main page Requests for new languages (Wikipedia Traditional Greek)
submitted verification final decision
Process-stop.svg This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

There is only one interested editor and no test project. Unfortunately, we do not believe that this wiki would be successful at this point. Note that this is not at all a rejection of the language itself. Feel free to work on the Wikimedia Incubator, attract a larger community, and make a new request in the future. If you need any help doing so, feel free to contact me.

For later discussion, note that 'traditional Greek' covers a number of versions, including Ancient (c. 500–300 BCE), Koine (c. 300BCE–300CE), and Medieval Greek (c. 300–1453). Generally, this presents two problems: conflict on the scope of the project and the version used in individual articles, and the splitting of the single unified project. An editor in the discussion pointed out that these variants are currently accepted in the unified project, so splitting the wiki may not be desirable. (However, this is only a factor to consider in the future, and is not the primary reason the request was rejected.) —{admin} Pathoschild 03:22:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposal summary
  • Language details: Traditional Greek (— ISO—)
  • Editing community: de-wp:Christos V. (NP)
    List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your
    name if you are a native speaker of this language.
  • Relevant pages: —
  • External links:
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

I want to start a discussion to open a Wikipedia in traditional Greek. It schould consist articles in all forms of traditional Greek, from Homeric Greek to classic Greek and Koine until the Katharevoussa. ChristosV unsigned by 84.252.65.220 22:32, 31 December 2006.

Arguments in favour[edit]

  • Until today traditional language forms are a vivid part of Greek society. It is very common to switch from modern Greek to older forms (e.g. in headlines of newspapers, adages and even in spoken language). For strangers it is hard to understand why somebody uses unknown words or changes in a speech to an other form of grammer. With a new wikipedia I will give a chance to readers to find articles written in traditional Greek. Because the only common source for readers is a daily newspaper ("Estia"). unsigned by 84.252.65.220 22:32, 31 December 2006.
  • Support I agree, it will also be a chance for the classical philologists to participate in this Wikipedia, as long as the proposal to create a pure ancient greek or attic greek Wikipedia has been denied, the Latin Wiki is quite successful as far as I know. de:Benutzer:Lefcant
  • Support I agree, there are many schools in Western Europe, especially in Italy, teaching Ancient Greek it:Utente:Thom
  • Support I agree too, there are many schools in Western Europe teaching Ancient Greek and I still do not understand why there’s a Latin wiki and not an Ancien Greek one. Many “dead” languages are present in Wikipedia. I think Ancien Greek is historically one of the most important in Europe. fr:Utilisateur:Patroklis
  • Support:I think we must limit the range of language forms. Almost nobody will be able to write in Homeric Greek. Classik to Koine is my suggestion. Nadja_von_Werner
  • Support: I believe in usability of Ancient Greek Wikipedia for outsiders and non-speakers - in which I can count myself. To read wikipedia (as any encyklopedia) in language I am not familiar with, proved to be very effective way how to learn the language (latin for me), while at the same time obtaining new informations. Well wikipedias are aimed to be just an encyklopedias and not to teach someone another languages. But I believe, that the usability of it for training in this language and being for this reason just attractive, is way how to search and understand information in different context. Context original for many classical scriptures wich are written in Anc-Greek and New testament too. Encyklopedia in cllasical language will help to conform/ameliorate/improve understanding of original classical sources for those readers, who will read them in original. --Reo On|+|+ 18:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
  • support-Absolutely agree with the proposal, since on the one hand it wil bring closer together the Greeks and the philellenes from around the globe, and on the other hand it will make accessible to a broad internet public the facts, the works and the traditional identity elements of the different groups comprising what nowadays we call ecoumenical hellenism. It would be a feast of local linguistic diversity. unsigned by Nginthehouse 19:53, 10 February 2007.
  • Support I think that an ancient greek wikipedia portal would be a great learning tool for people like me that prefer to learn using immersion and contructivist learning methods, ie using the language. A daily news section with a news feed would be especially good for learning. unsigned by Erceofrivendell 01:33, 18 February 2007.

Arguments against[edit]

  • The concept of "Traditional Greek" is far too broad, since it would include dialects which differ much more than the two Norwegian dialects too -- and those two split up into different Wikipedias due to severe problems. I support the other proposal, however. —Nightstallion (?) 16:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose--Absar 14:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose Ancient Greek Wikipedia is a different concept from Traditional Greek wikipedia; therefore all the arguments supporting Ancient Greek Wikipedia as of the above should first of all be considered invalid. My reason for opposition is that the Traditional Greek Wikipedia does not really serve a different purpose than the already existing Greek Wikipedia, plus perhaps the proposed Ancient Greek Wikipedia project; in reality, it will increase confusion for readers as to which wikipedia should be consulted, since the modern Greek is in fact a mixure of Traditional Greek and whatnot; not to mention the existing editors on the Greek Wikipedia are very needed and few, so there's no reason to split them up into two even smaller groups. In the end, most articles of the Greek Wikipedia and the Traditional Greek Wikipedia will end up being the same, as these languages are very similar, since spoken greek contains almost all elements of Traditional Greek. Thank you --Dionyziz 15:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

General discussion[edit]

From Homeric Greek all the way until Koine and Katharevoussa? The range of dialects is far too great; look at the controversy on en:wikipedia over whether colour should be spelt with a "u" (it should)! I think it would be better to restart the request for an ancient Greek wikipedia which was quite popular a couple of months ago and was closed as part of the implementsation of the new Language Proposal Policy.LeighvsOptimvsMaximvs 17:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Really? There was an ancient greek test Wikipedia? I didn't take note from, I support an ancient greek Wikipedia too and would have also participated (since I'm able to type greek directly with diacritics). Is it been completely deleted with all translations of the interface? What a pity... As I am relatively new here in the requests for new languages, could you tell me how long it usually lasts till a rejected language can be reproposed, and how long it takes for a proposal to be decided about? Σοὶ εὐχαριστῶ Lefcant
There was not a test wiki for classical/ancient Greek, but a proposal for one. The request was not rejected as such; it was just deleted as part of the new process. There was a test page for an ancient Greek wikisource which was deleted, and I am not sure where it is now. Regarding your question about how long it takes for a proposal to be accepted, the only thing I know is that no-one really knows (this is especially true for ancient languages). I would add my name to the list of potential contributors if the proposal was for C5th/4th BCE Greek, but "traditional" is far too broad. LeighvsOptimvsMaximvs 04:53, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
So there is a new proposal, just look below... The amount of dialects is truly far too big, we'd have to form sentences like Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε Μοῦσα σε παρακαλῶ... ;-) --Lefcant 21:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding my opposition, here is a link to the Ancient Greek proposal --Dionyziz 16:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC).