Talk:2012-13 Fundraising Agreement (UK)

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Discussion[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This conversation precedes the final agreement of the document. Please begin new sections for future conversations. Thank you. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello Kelly. Jon Davies WMUK (talk) 12:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jon, welcome to the UK Fundraising Agreement. I just finished making the changes I emailed you about. You will see some clarifications on mutual obligations, a little bit more on the process for designing banner based upon feedback from DE and the WMF fundraising team, and clauses specific to the UK. Please feel free to leave comments here or email me if there is anything you have questions about. Cheers, Kkay (talk) 13:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
OK - so having been through the new version and compared it with the old one and the comments we made here are a few that may still be relevant. Some of them refer to the old numbering - apologies.
Dates
June 15th very tight - would appreciate another fortnight
September 1st very tricky for us - holidays and Board meeting on the 1st mean little time to come up with the numbers for ext year's draft budget. October 1st better.
Jon, I think the dates are some thing we definitely will need to address, and they will most certainly move, but I am going to keep them as they are until we get a better feel for how things are going. We will discuss on the call tonight. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Chapter Obligations:
The revenue sharing commitment - interested to know if you will be looking for a common cross fab four approach.
Para 2 Comply with the determination of... down to:
2. Meeting the guiding principles for fundraising
Can we ditch this seems superfluous?
I have removed some of the language that I agree is not necessary in the contract, but I think we need to retain the remainder for context. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
5. Comply with internal...
Amend to show identifiable financial stream, does not need a separate account.
You must have missed the change I made to 7b, I added a proviso that allowed for fund based accounting. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
7.2 'Daily Reports' isn't this a bit OTT? In practice there will be missed days. This should not jeopardise the agreement.
The daily reports are something designed to make the fundraising efforts more efficient and ensure the WMF team is aware of what is happening and adjust quickly. This section is one that was specifically requested by the fundraising team to allow them to almost real-time be able to get up to date numbers on the progress of the fundraiser worldwide. This is even more important with 4 chapters fundraising. I prefer to keep it the same for all chapters if you are ok with that. It is pretty important to the actual functioning of the fundraiser.Kkay (talk) 12:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The what was number 1.4.1 asking for legal review of all materials - surely you don't expect us to legal every banner or landing site variation?
Actually, the language is flexible and states "as necessary" you will have discretion on when you have legal review or not. I think if you utilize the ASA, you probably will not need to do this. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
We are happy to commit to running the general campaign over to the team at the Advertising Standards Authority.
This is up to you, but I think it is an excellent idea. We do not need to commit the Chapter to do it in the agreement. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
WMF obligations
There were thoughts that it should contain:
Provide documentation about the WMF's charitable status within the US, by
I made a change in the Master agreement based upon Michael Peel's request for more "symmetry" and have included information on our charitable/non-profit status. As well as a few other items he requested be mutual. I hope this works for you. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Ensure that geolocation of IP addresses is as accurate as possible, and to actively investigate the statistics of donors in the relevant geography that end up donating to the WMF but whom should have donated to a chapter.
I will save this for discussion on our call tonight. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
An explanation of the differences between the activities that funds donated to the WMF go towards (i.e. keeping the website projects going, and supporting international activities where chapters do not yet exist) compared to the activities that funds donated to the chapter go towards (i.e. supporting the global projects via a donation to the WMF, and supporting activities within the chapter's geography). This extends to all publicity about any donations received by the Wikimedia movement.
I am not certain what you are after here. Can you explain more or we can discuss on the call. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Provide accurate and complete subsequent monthly revenue reports within 30 days from the end of the previous month.
I think this is already done by WMF online. I will check with Megan. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Report, within 6 hours of becoming aware of the issue, any incidents that result in donations within the chapter's geographical region being redirected to the WMF rather than the chapter.
This includes any incoming link to the Wikimedia fundraiser, including all links on the Wikimedia projects and all links on any other websites, particularly including social media websites such as Facebook and Twitter.
I will check on our processes for outages/redirects and see what we can do. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Just to note: this was primarily aimed at significant outages/issues, rather than every minor detail. E.g. if the banners on the Wikimedia projects broke, or if the principle donation link(s) being used on facebook/twitter weren't redirecting correctly, rather than issues with links that are only seen by a small number of people or minor numbers of donors being redirected elsewhere (although it would still be good to resolve these, that's a smaller issue). Mea culpa for the bad phrasing of this point originally, sorry. Mike Peel (talk) 20:54, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
To publicly provide all necessary information and legal compliance documents required for the WMF to fundraise in all geographies where banners that direct donors to the WMF fundraising pages are displayed.
WMF is a US based non profit, we only fundraise from the US and all of our activities are currently subject to US law. All banners are on the US based websites. It is a little strange in the virtual world, and we can discuss on our call. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Other legal considerations
5, WMF may, in its discretion (Bring in the auditors) What would reasonable notice mean?
This is an excellent question and depends upon the situation. If it was a standard annual audit done for diligence purposes there would probably be a 30-60 day window of notice. If this was done because of suspected malfeasance, probably a week maximum. Our intention is to never need the clause. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Can the legal jurisdiction be that of the UK?
No, sorry, we really need to keep this governed by US law and consistent across the Chapters. Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
9 - Sue the final voice. We would like an appeal to the board to be added.
I will have to check on this one. :-) Kkay (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Jon, based upon your clarification in our meeting yesterday, I have added in a proviso that if the ED is unavailable, the Deputy Director would be able to step in and make the decision. I did not add the language "or successor" as if a successor is appointed, it will be the ED :-) so it was not really necessary. I think that wraps up our discussions. thanks Kkay (talk) 08:44, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
I think there's been a misunderstanding here, possibly with where this change should have been made. It shouldn't have been changed with regards termination of the agreement (which, when the ED isn't available, should be delayed until the ED becomes available again). Perhaps it was referring to somewhere else that the ED is responsible? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Jon Davies WMUK (talk) 14:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Conclusions[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This conversation precedes the final agreement of the document. Please begin new sections for future conversations. Thank you. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Jon, Thank you for the meeting yesterday. It was helpful to walk through the last few items with you and Simone. I made the final change we discussed and of you could take a last look through and propose to your board as soon as possible, We can wrap things up as soon as they give you approval. Once we know when we are likely to have that approval, we can go in and adjust the necessary dates. As mentioned, it would be great if we were able to sign late next week. Thanks again. Kkay (talk) 08:44, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

My concerns[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This conversation precedes the final agreement of the document. Please begin new sections for future conversations. Thank you. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I am glad to see progress is being made here. To briefly re-iterate my previously expressed concerns:

1) we need to clarify with Stone King that this agreement will be seen by the CC as preserving the independent discretion of WMUK to use their funds.

2) This appears to be the only agreement WMUK will have with WMF relating to our grants to them. It therefore needs to incorporate all the points the CC require for agreements with foreign charities ([1]: "What sort of things should a partnership agreement cover? ... A signed agreement with partners overseas should include:

agreement by the partner to provide regular donor reports - these should be of actual spend in a set format and signed off by a senior manager
agreement to apply funds only for the purposes given (a restricted fund)
the maintenance of appropriate accounting records
right of access at all times (announced or unannounced)
milestones and timetables
audit provisions (internal, external or both)"

- We don't I think need a restricted fund, & the main "milestones and timetables" are public, but the audit & access provisions should be reciprocal. The regulatory environment in the UK re fiduciary responsibility is somewhat tougher than in the US.

We also need to cover this with Stone King. Johnbod (talk) 00:24, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Having now seen their comments, the only thing I'd add is that if we need a WMF "grant agreement", as a different document, this one should briefly state that the other will be needed. Johnbod (talk) 23:10, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
I have added language to make it clear that an agreement of some sort will be entered into regarding the contribution of funds from WMUK to WMF. This agreement can contain the necessary language to address the above concerns from King Scott. Last year we used a Grant Request approach. Some version of this can be used again. Kkay (talk) 21:39, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Jon, I have made the changes requested by WMUK counsel via email. Please review with your board and let me know if there are any questions. I think the language went a long way to further clarifying independence which is great. Thanks! Kkay (talk) 22:02, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Extra column[edit]

Kelly, I've added an extra column to the bottom list, saying whether or not we have provided this to you, along with details. Please let me know if this is not OK, but it's better and easier than us having separate copies of this 'checklist'. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)