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Latest comment: 7 months ago by Filipinayzd in topic Additional comment to the feedback

Odd number voting member[edit]

If the voting member is only 8 people, there will be a situation where the voting will be deadlock. I propose to add or decrease the voting member into 7 or 8 member to avoid this situation. If i can suggest, i prefer to increase finance office role with vice finance officer or decrease ordinary members. I also not agreeing that there are two chair, i propose vice chair and chair. There is also a void of supervision of eseap hub committee. i think rather than non voting member, i think we need to make something like board of trustee. That's all my suggesstion for today Agus Damanik (talk) 08:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

I agree with your opinion regarding the number of members of the Board. Having an odd number of members is a more common practice.-- Reke (talk) 09:38, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
As the drafter of the initial iteration that was created for the IHC build from, I followed the lessons I had learnt with WMAU over the years. Their rules and structure are based on best practices/model rules being used across Australia, 4 executive and 4 general members has served Australia well since it was expanded from 4 executive and 2 general members some years ago. I would think that if there was 4-4 split in votes that the committee/board would continue to collaborate together to address the impasse rather than have a vote by 1 one person tip the result either way. Even in the event of 7-1 outcome Wikimedians would first delve into the reasons why that 1 vote isnt in agreement anyway. Gnangarra (talk) 10:51, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
Though i aprreciate that's the best practice which happen in Australia. I still think to stick to the common practice to avoid future problem which will happen. Wikimedia Indonesia have odd number board for their board of trustee and board of executive. i think we need to discuss this if there is different form of best practice in different region Agus Damanik (talk) 22:16, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

The position of the chairman can be rotated[edit]

To express my opinion accurately, I wrote it down in my native language and add the machine translation under.




I suggest that the Chairperson of the Board should adopt a rotational system, where each member of the Board would have a designated period to serve as the Chairperson during their full term. This would ensure that the policy-making of the Hub is not influenced solely by the vision of the Chairperson. We understand that ESEAP is a region with diverse constituents, and it requires a variety of perspectives. Additionally, providing each representative with an opportunity to gain leadership experience would evenly enhance the governance skills of different communities within the region.

Furthermore, the Board should focus more on decision-making, while tasks such as grant applications and meeting records can be handled by hired staff, without the need for specific positions. Even if financial oversight is required, it can be assigned to a Board member designated by each Chairperson during their term. Reke (talk) 09:34, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes that is something IHC discussed, but until the ESEAP hub has defined staff roles, got a budget, and hired staff we need a step in between. Its important we do attract people to roles they are interested in and can support during this period of transition. IHC also caution against post vote assigning roles to people because that may make people reluctant to commit to the ESEAP or worse leave within the first few months. Gnangarra (talk) 10:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Personal feedback[edit]

@Athikhun.suw, BindiS, Dody Ismoyo, Reke, Filipinayzd, Buszmail, Robertsky, Agus Damanik, and Lady01v:

Here's my personal feedback on this chapter, especially to prepare the Hub leading toward next year's Wikimedia Summit. Please note that these are my personal thoughts as a long-time volunteer Wikimedian, based on the current Movement Charter draft chapter on Hubs, and does not represent the viewpoints of my employer, the Wikimedia Foundation.

Definition and categorization

  • This “Roles and Responsibilities Document” must be renamed into something more official, such as “ESEAP Hub Charter” or “ESEAP Hub Bylaws”. I would be inclined to use “Charter”, in line with the Movement Charter.
  • According to the current Hub chapter at Movement Charter, a Hub should be either a regional or a thematic Hub. However, this IMO does not neatly fit with the ESEAP context – we have country-based chapters and user groups, and then we have user groups that are thematic in nature (Wikipedia Asia Month), and a lot of chapters and user groups do thematic works. ESEAP Hub should strive to be representative for the ESEAP region and all thematic works within the region.


  • The ESEAP Hub must:
    • Provide services to its member entities, including but not limited to:
      • Organising the annual ESEAP Conference
      • Providing external advice on annual financial/grant reports of its member entities before submission to the Wikimedia Foundation or other funding source
      • Connecting its member entities with potential external partners in their work (e.g. governmental institutions, UN agencies, GLAM institutions, etc)
      • Showcasing and amplifying the works and projects (e.g. campaigns, contests, edit-a-thons, workshops) of its member entities to a more global audience
    • Develop the capacity of its members entities, including but not limited to:
      • Providing advice and training to its member entities that is applying for a fund to the Wikimedia Foundation or other funding source
      • Providing advice and training for the local fundraising campaigns that are organised by its member entities
      • Providing thematic training and capacity building of new Wikimedia technology products to its member entities, e.g. Wikidata, GLAM, tech trainings
      • Providing human resources and professional development training for professional staff and contractors of its member entities
    • Coordinate the ESEAP regional voice in global Wikimedia governance discussions, including but not limited to:
      • Representing its member entities in discussions related to Movement Charter and Global Council
      • Providing external strategic advice on Wikimedia Foundation’s fundraising campaign in any or several ESEAP countries
      • Providing external strategic advice to the Wikimedia Foundation’s Regional Grants Committee for ESEAP in dissemination of Foundation funds within the region
      • Ensuring and advocating for proportional ESEAP representation in the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees and its governance committees (Global Council, Affiliations Committee, UCoC Coordinating Committee, etc.)
    • Advocate and defend the Wikimedia movement in ESEAP, including but not limited to:
      • Monitoring and evaluating the development of government or international organisation policies that are anticipated to have an impact to the sustainability of the Wikimedia projects in ESEAP, such as policies related to access to knowledge and free expression
      • Providing training and capacity building for the member entities to counter disinformation and misinformation in the project environment
      • Collaborating with Wikimedia Foundation and other partners in advocating for public policies that are favourable for the Wikimedia movement in ESEAP
  • The ESEAP Hub should:
    • Collaborate with other Wikimedia organisations, including other hubs, informal groups, and individuals
    • Fulfil the standards of diversity, inclusion, accountability, and equity in decision-making in its day-to-day operations


  • While the current Hubs draft allows Hubs to fundraise, it would be best for the ESEAP Hub to not fundraise on its own and leave it to the hands of its member entities, which may have their own local fundraising campaigns from time to time. In order to fund the operations of the Hub, the following stream of funds should be considered:
    • Grants from Wikimedia Foundation
    • Grants from Wikimedia Endowment
    • Grants from other Wikimedia affiliates
    • Grants from other like-minded organisations in the ESEAP region
  • The current Hubs draft also provides for Hubs to allocate funds for its members, I would suggest the ESEAP Hub to build its internal organisational and financial capacity for the first 4-5 years before even considering having the power to give out grants. As proposed above, the ESEAP Hub could serve as a strategic partner for the Wikimedia Foundation’s Regional Grants Committee for ESEAP in dissemination Foundation grants to the region without having to do the dissemination themselves.

Membership and governance

  • The ESEAP Hub must be composed of the following entities as its members:
    • Affiliates (Chapter and User Group) in the ESEAP region, who becomes part of the Hub by signing into the Charter/Bylaws upon approval by their membership;
    • Language project communities in the ESEAP region, who becomes part of the Hub by signing into the Charter/Bylaws upon approval by their internal decision-making processes; and
    • External organisations that are working on free knowledge in the ESEAP region (e.g. local Creative Commons chapters, local OSM chapters, etc.), who become part of the Hub by signing into the Charter upon approval by their internal decision-making processes.
  • Therefore, ESEAP Hub should not be a membership organisation that has individual members; rather, it should be a confederation of entities, with representatives of the member entities responsible for its decision making and day-to-day operations.
  • The financial, administrative, and legal affairs of the ESEAP Hub necessitate a member entity to serve as its Host. Pending a standard set out by the Global Council for a Host, the member entity that serve as Host for the ESEAP Hub must be:
    • Secure approval from its membership through internal decision-making process to serve as Host
    • Legally registered and recognized in the country of its operations
    • Well-established, well-endowed, and has capacity to serve as Host
    • Has historically maintained good working relationship with the Wikimedia Foundation (e.g. always compliant with reporting requirements, never been suspended by the AffCom, etc)
  • Governance of the ESEAP Hub should be run by two separate bodies: a General Assembly, which is a permanent volunteer representative assembly that sets the policy and directives; and a Secretariat, which is a professional group of staff that implements policy and directives from the General Assembly and run day-to-day operations of the Hub.
  • The General Assembly must comprise representatives from all ESEAP Hub member entities. Its powers and responsibilities would include:
    • Amending the Charter;
    • Admitting or expelling the member entities;
    • Issuing policies and directives related to the Hub operations;
    • Hiring or firing professional staff of the Secretariat;
    • Approving or rejecting the annual budget and working plan of the Hub as proposed by the Secretariat.
  • The Secretariat will be a professional group of staff that are hired and fired by the General Assembly, led by a Secretary-General assisted by several other staff handling different areas of responsibilities (finance, services, policy, etc). Its powers and responsibilities would include:
    • Prepare an annual budget and working plan of the Hub for General Assembly’s approval;
    • Implement policies and directives related to the Hub operations as set by the General Assembly;
    • Implement the primary responsibilities of the Hub (providing service, capacity development, coordinating regional voice, policy advocacy, etc)
  • While the Hub Host may temporarily serve several functions of the Secretariat, it is important that the staff of member entities that serve as Host must, as much as possible, not also serve as staff of the Secretariat to avoid the conflicting interests and complications of employment. The Host may provide physical offices and mailing addresses, for example, but the Secretariat must hire its own professional staff as early as possible.

Happy to provide any clarifications on this feedback, you know where to find me :) Best, RamzyM (talk) 06:05, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Additional comment to the feedback[edit]

1. Charter. The Declaration Statement on the Creation of the Regional Hub, and the final version of Roles and Responsibilities Document can be merged as one document which will serve as the Charter / Bylaws.
In the comparison table I created, (looking at CEE as a successful regional cooperation which ESEAP wants to emulate) ESEAP which is composed of the Far East and the Pacific does not share some tradition and history unlike CEE. Geographically, the European region is a contagious area while ESEAP (the composition of the interim committee was based on the three sub-regional divisions – the blocs of East Asia, Southeast Asia, and Oceania) is archipelagic and quite dispersed unlike the latter which is compact. From the draft Movement Charter - Hubs: Regional hubs empower groups of Wikimedians to collaborate and coordinate... Regional hubs empower groups of Wikimedians to collaborate and coordinate, for example on capacity building and knowledge transfer. Thematic hubs allow for specialization and work across the Movement, where shared objectives benefit from coordinated solutions. The current geographic coverage of ESEAP is cross-regional (i.e. East Asia, Southeast Asia, and Oceania) and the communities have different ideas and levels of experience. One possible form of thematic hubs is linguistic hubs. Language is of utmost importance to guarantee diversity, inclusion and representation amongst dispersed communities (sharing the same language). Language is perhaps the most important cultural component of the movement. It often occurs that one country has multiple official languages, and one language is spoken in multiple countries. ESEAP is a linguistically diverse region. Different communities and affiliates have found Wikipedia Asian Month engaging. This initiative extends beyond Asian communities, involving various language-specific Wikipedias and Wikimedia projects. It also encourages local organizers to hold associated events. In 2018, Wikipedia Asian Month User Group was recognized as an affiliate. ESEAP Hub should focus more on building partnership than having projects which the Wikimedia communities and affiliates are already doing locally or regionally.
2. Responsibilities. The ESEAP Hub should stimulate growth for all Wikimedia projects of this region and aid in cooperation and understanding of individual projects which are part of the East Asia, Southeast Asia, and Oceania regions as with the main goal of CEE. Further, the proposed ESEAP Hub should strive to formalise the ongoing collaboration within the region and provide services for communities that support them in their work and enable them to grow how they see fit for them.
3. Membership. The ESEAP Hub must be composed both of affiliate representatives and individuals (from informal/unaffiliated communities of Wikimedians or project-based communities). Historically, only representatives from affiliates were able to participate in the discussions on the formation of the regional cooperation at Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference, hence the idea of confederation of entities as the EU or ASEAN. Looking at the ESEAP history, the regional cooperation started in a meeting of ESEA representatives at Wikimania 2014 who got a scholarship or sponsorship from their affiliates or individuals as WMF committee member. From 2015 to 2017 at Wikimanias and Wikimedia Conferences, meetings and meetups were participated by affiliates' representatives and individuals as either an affiliate-sponsored participant or a WMF committee member. The first conference of Wikimedians from the ESEA and the Pacific outside the annual Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference meetings only happened in 2018 in Bali, Indonesia. It was the first time that more countries were represented. The ESEAP Conference 2019 however would not be funded by WMF. Instead, a Movement Strategy Summit in Bangkok was held and it was attended by affiliate representatives and individuals from informal/unaffiliated communities.
4. Finance. There are affiliates within ESEAP which is more established than the ESEAP Hub in terms of structure, governance, and experience. From the draft Movement Charter - Hubs, Hubs can be initiated by a minimum of two Wikimedia affiliates as founding members. ESEAP as a group has set the foundation with the election of Interim Hub Committee (2022–23), and the current ESEAP Preparatory Council (2023-24) with seat from Affiliates based in Thailand (1), Australia (1), Malaysia (1) and Taiwan (1); and individuals (representing an informal/unaffiliated community or a project-based community, or otherwise) from the Philippines (3), Singapore (1) and Indonesia (1). As a starter, and not to complicate things, ESEAP Hub can choose among the established affiliates or an external organization such as Kiwix as the fiscal sponsor.
5. Governance. The suggested two (2) co-equal Chairpersons can be associated to the two (2) contact persons for Hubs as in affiliates. Contact persons have a specified task which is not the same and should not be confused with the role of the Chairperson and the Vice Chair. The ESEAP Interim Council, ESEAP Preparatory Council, and ESEAP Board must have a Chairperson, and a Vice Chair, like any board, committee or council composed of appointed or elected members.
-Filipinayzd (talk) 16:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply