Talk:Fundraising/WMF India fundraising campaign

Mobile large banner language question

Is "We request you, sincerely: don't skip this" idiomatic Indian English? It sounds awkward in NA English. Folly Mox (talk) 20:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Folly Mox,

Yes, it is localised to Indian English. We work with a native Indian to ensure our English is localised for the campaign. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 08:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I was hoping that was the case, but wanted to double check. Folly Mox (talk) 11:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm an Indian. I've heard that turn of phrase before, but I do not believe it's commonly used. It sounds more common in overly formal letters than regular parlance.

I generally very much dislike phrasals like "...it will soon be too late to help the nonprofit behind Wikipedia." This is very much misleading and will lead to long term harm to the goodwill of Wikipedia. I have strong personal opinions about Wikipedia banners being unskippable and instrusive; I believe that even if those are necessary to keep fundraising increased, the campaigns should not resort to weasel words. There are ways to highlight the importance of our campaigns without going "If you don't donate it'll be too late" or similar. Soni (talk) 23:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi JBrungs (WMF), thanks for the response. The phrase seems to be a literal translation from Hindi to English. As Soni rightly pointed out, the phrase is not used in daily interaction. Would recommend reframing it to: "Kindly don't skip this, join the 2% of readers who donate". Brahmavadini (talk) 10:42, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this phrasing, it's much more natural and common to Indian English. Soni (talk) 13:23, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Soni and Brahmavadini,

Thank you for your feedback. Do you have any suggestions on how we could specifically improve the banner text? Brahmavadini, thank you for your suggestion regarding ‘request’. We have updated the text per your suggestion

Soni, I just wanted to take a minute to clarify a few things around the banners (this is for the Desktop large banner specifically). There are several options to skip them. You can close the whole banner via the X on the top right hand corner, you can select ‘I already donated’ below the banner, or you can choose the ‘ Maybe later’ option in which case you get a reminder email later in the campaign. Impression wise readers see 1-2 large banners as well as several small banners.

As mentioned, I would love to hear your alternative wording thoughts for the messaging and we will try to find space to test them and get back to you with the results.

Best, Julia JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Julia. Did you want my inputs on something specific in the banner text? The feedback given below (the 4 points) captures the essence & the mobile large banner text is same. Any changes in the desktop large banner should be replicated in all the others. Brahmavadini (talk) 07:40, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

That clarification does not clarify anything. All it tells me is that banners are skippable, which does not remove my main concerns with fundraising and how they phrase things. But sure, let me give more exact suggestions (this is for Desktop Large)

• "Please don't scroll past this 1-minute read." -> This is a bit awkward, perhaps consider "This will take a minute, please don't scroll" or something similar?
• "We're sorry to interrupt, but it's Wednesday, 19 June," -> Again overly formal. I am not well versed with fundraising (Brahmavadini's link to ketto etc is more useful than I) but I suspect this is more the personal touch of your consultant than actual fundraising-speak.
• "and it will soon be too late to help us in our fundraiser." -> Misleading, and why I think Wikipedia fundraising violates our core values. Should be more direct and honest imho. WMF campaigns keep doomsaying instead of something like "and only a few days to go for our fundraiser" (not ideal wording)
• "We request you to reflect on the number of times you visited Wikipedia in the past year and if you're able to donate ₹ 25 to the Wikimedia Foundation." -> Again overly formal, and actually a confusing sentence. "Consider how many times this year you've visited Wikipedia; are you able to donate ₹ 25 to the Wikimedia Foundation?" (or "; is that worth ₹ 25?"
• 2nd paragraph, Brahmavadini already talked about AI. Rest of paragraph is good.
• "If Wikipedia is one of the websites you use most and if the knowledge you gain here is valuable" -> Another awkward turn of phrase. I think it's more impactful to pick either and use that. Knowledge you gain here could just be "The knowledge many gain from Wikipedia is invaluable" or something after the last para. The last line ("Every contribution..") is punchy and well-written, this one is too compound.

As for Desktop (small) -

• "We're sorry we've asked you a few times recently, but it's Wednesday, 19 June, and it will soon be too late to help the nonprofit behind Wikipedia." -> I don't know what the date is doing there. Is that supposed to help? If the fundraising is ending at a specific date, would a countdown not be better? Same concerns as before (First phrase is too formal and long, last is too misleading). Rest is good.

Overall, it feels clunky and formal, the sentences go for too long sometimes, and I would prefer an honest clear message more. Soni (talk) 07:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both for going through the banners and suggesting alternatives that you prefer. I have passed this on to our content team. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 08:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Fundraiser Headline

Wikipedia still can't be sold.

I would strongly recommend to reframe the fundraiser headline. The intended meaning does not match the actual meaning coming across to a general reader, who is a potential donor.

The meaning behind the headline reads like: "well, we have tried to sell Wikipedia innumerable times but we are unable to, that's why we are here to raise money to sustain the project because we are unable to sell it."

I know that is not the intention but the brand messaging is coming across that way. Brahmavadini (talk) 10:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

+1. I also do not understand what the "still" is referring to. Is there supposed to be some Wikipedia neutrality news that you're expecting the average reader to know about?

I'd recommend phrasing like "Wikipedia is still free for everyone" (or something similar). Or even adjacent ideas like "Knowledge should always be free". Indian news has an actual problem with being sold to non-neutral corporate entities, so avoiding "being sold" as a connotation is quite important. Soni (talk) 13:28, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your input here, the headline is based on a conversation that Jimmy Wales had with Elon Musk on X in late 2023. As Musk suggested that Wikipedia can be bought, Wales countered that it cannot. This headline shows our commitment to Wikipedia’s non-profit, non-saleable status and has resonated deeply with readers across the globe, highlighting the impact and importance of our mission. However, taking your feedback into consideration, we will be testing our best performing alternative headline:  “You might not see this message next time you're here” during the campaign. If this works for our audience in India, we will change the headline. We have, in the past, tested variants including “Wikipedia is still free”, “Wikipedia is yours” and many more along the same lines and they did not perform as well. We’re also taking your feedback (below) regarding AI messaging into consideration and will test other mission-driven variants during the campaign. JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

What specifically are you testing for? More donations? Because if the intent is just to maximise donations at all costs, you could always turn to clickbait. It's proven to work (Just see Youtube and other social media), but it will also end up compromising other core values. I'd personally value a Wikimedia that retains goodwill of all readers than one only focused on getting the maximum revenue possible.

As for the headline here, it's too convoluted. People would not be aware of the conversation, and the quote will not make sense without that. The alt headline (“You might not see this message next time you're here") is much better, though I suggest some simplification ("Next time, this message may be gone" maybe?). I can suggest other wordings, but someone else should probably workshop better ones - "Wikipedia will never be sold" or "You can keep Wikipedia free" (more direct) or "Can you keep Wikipedia free?" Soni (talk) 07:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@JBrungs (WMF): I am aware of the Twitter (X) context and it is unlikely for all the donors to be aware of that conversation, connect it with Wikipedia's core values (are readers and donors aware?!), and then donate. The headline would work fine for a closed door fundraising drive. Keeping the Twitter conversation aside and the potential mixed messaging, the headline is not Indian English. By including "still" in the headline, the messaging goes a different way, as stated in my first message. The alternative - “You might not see this message next time you're here” - is too generic and lacks context. Suggesting two simpler alternatives: "Help us keep Wikipedia free" and "Wikipedia won't be sold" (a variation of the current headline). Brahmavadini (talk) 07:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Desktop Large - Banner Language

The main page states that the process of localisation is ongoing. Kindly consider these inputs:

1. and it will soon be too late to help us in our fundraising - it would be good to remove the sense of urgency. Suggestion - "and we're fundraising for Wikipedia and its sister projects".

2. this gave ₹25 - the localised version would be this donated ₹25. Check out few India-based social cause donation/fundraiser websites for language clarity.

3. reconsider the second paragraph: "In the age of AI .... today and tomorrow". There is mixed messaging. "Wikipedia" is synonymous with "knowledge" and/or "encyclopaedia" - that's the brand identity. Avoid using terms and phrases like "heart of online information" as its generic (every other website is a source of online information) and dilutes the Wikipedia brand.

4. we'd reach our goal in a few hours - what is the goal? A financial goal is always mentioned in our donation/fundraising drives. Check out milaap.org, ketto.org or donatekart.com.

Hoping the inputs help. Brahmavadini (talk) 11:35, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

For 2, Gave is somewhat acceptable too. Agree with the general points. Soni (talk) 13:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for those suggestions. I have addressed point 3 in the answer above (at the end) and I have passed the others to our content team. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:59, 19 June 2024 (UTC)