Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Message to small and medium sized wikis

Please don't

@AMtavangu (WMF): Presumably this message is intended to be sent to practically every single wiki, again. Every small wiki's village pump has already turned into a complete graveyard of English-language MassMessage spam, crippling everyone's ability to discuss anything of importance to the projects. (The last place I checked had 36 English MassMessages in the recent posts before a single one actually about the project that everyone's there to work on.) This message doesn't even try to be brief, instead assuming that a hundred volunteer translators should spend the time dealing with hundreds of unnecessary words that take forever to even get to the point.

This is messed up. --Yair rand (talk) 18:30, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

If something must be sent out, how about a message more like "A universal code of conduct is being developed, that is intended to apply to all Wikimedia volunteers and staff. Please give your opinions or feedback at [...]"? Every word matters, and translator resources are very limited. Seriously, lots of these projects don't even have their own interfaces completely translated; publicizing WMF's long messages should not be the highest priority. --Yair rand (talk) 18:40, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

This is likely not to be the text that gets sent out, and it's not going to every wiki. It may help to think about this kind of communications as "due notice": there isn't a different and/or better way to notify multiple communities at once, while the local communities are the ones that define where they get this kind of communications (some have in time indicated a page that is not their main VP for them). We aren't using this lightly and are fully aware of the limitations - consider reach, for instance: for en.wp, the VPM page has:

Number of page watchers: 2,416

Number of page watchers who visited recent edits: 302

Page views in the past 30 days: 2,728

Recent number of edits (within past 30 days): 123

Recent number of distinct authors: 54

Overall wiki stat - Active registered users (Users who have performed an action in the last 30 days): 130,943.

It should also be considered that in many cases, exactly for smaller wikis, wiki-related conversation isn't happening on wiki (and it wouldn't, even if all mass messages stopped). MM is one of the ways in which communities can be reached, and the UCoC teams, and others, tend to rely on a variety of them, including involving ambassadors and similar to more effectively rely messages where they can be acted upon - but keeping any community in the blind entirely is not an option. On a final note, I am hopeful that some teams this year may have a chance to do meaningful work around communications that involve the Movement. (FYIng User:Qgil-WMF for visibility). Best, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 19:28, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I am very skeptical that smaller wikis would not use the wiki for discussions even if the WMF weren't flooding them beyond the point of usability, but I would be interested in seeing evidence for that. I'm especially skeptical because I've seen first-hand discussion areas die as a result of the flooding. (Or at least, I've seen formerly active, healthy discussion areas that fell out of use at the same time as MassMessages made it difficult to use, and I'm making an assumption regarding the cause.)

I'm glad to hear that this is likely not going to be the text that gets sent out. Is there any page I could follow the various UCoC-related activities, including the drafting of the message (and preferably the various consultations and surveys that are sent out)? --Yair rand (talk) 06:12, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello Yair, we have tried to identify trusted users from as many wikis as possible to pass on the message to their communities in their preferred communication channels. We are also contacting affiliates where they exist. Do you have any suggestions for trusted users who could spread the message better than a mass message for projects that do not have an affiliate? --CSteigenberger (WMF) (talk) 07:22, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

We are aware about the risk of abusing MassMessage especially in smaller projects (task T130602). I'm personally not even happy about the assumption that a message in a Village Pump counts as a notification to a community because most volunteers don't check them regularly even when they are active and well maintained. Still, what is the alternative right here and right now? Not to communicate with entire projects at all, not even trying? We are being very selective using MassMessage for all VPs. It's just that these days there are many topics that affect especially the medium and small projects. The Brand program has emerging communities as primary target. Abstract Wikipedia is an opportunity especially for language communities who cannot even afford relying on human translation of articles in other languages. The Universal Code of Conduct will make a bigger difference in communities that haven't created their own arbitration committees. I understand the motivations of "Please don't" but can we work on a "Do this instead"? In the meantime, I still think that communicating with small and medium wikis is better that not communicating, considering all risks. Qgil-WMF (talk) 07:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

This message also could benefit from the addition of some linebreaks. The way it is now, it is just a block of text full of buzzwords, and (on my screen), somewhere in line 5 there start to be words which maybe could give away what the texts wants from you. --MF-W 13:45, 21 July 2020 (UTC)