WikiConference India 2016/Community and Team/IRC/October 31, 2015

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Date and Time
October 31, 2015, 9:30 pm

How to connect ?
IRC Channel at ##wikiconferenceindiaconnect

Topic
First Jury Discussion

Attendees

  • @ChanServ
  • Abhay
  • anirudh
  • AshLin
  • kalyan_
  • Netha
  • Niharika
  • Pmlineditor
  • ravidreams
  • Shanmugamp7
  • wm-bot5

IRC session log.


[21:26] <AshLin> Reached :)
[21:29] <Abhay> Ashwin, are you able to see my message?
[21:32] <AshLin> Hi Abhay, yes :)
[21:32] <Abhay> Great, ty
[21:38] * Netha slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large fishbot
[21:40] <kalyan> hi
[21:42] <AshLin> AshLin slaps everyone on the back with a large smelly
Rohu fish which he caught in the nearby lake ;)
[21:44] <kalyan> oh really
[21:45] <kalyan> must have had a grand dinner
[21:45] <AshLin> yes, come and eat fried Rohu with me :)
[21:45] <AshLin> in Pune
[21:46] <kalyan> :) would love to
[21:48] <AshLin> We are waiting for Vishwa & Anirudh, right?
[21:51] <AshLin> What say, we begin? Netha? Ravi? Abhay? Kalyan?
[21:58] <kalyan> yeah i guess so
[21:59] <Netha> Yep, let us begin
[21:59] <Netha> Not sure if Viswa can join, looks like he is ill.
[22:01] <AshLin> so, the first thing probably could be to decide what
are the criteria that would make a city suitable or not
[22:02] <AshLin> what are your views on this?
[22:05] <AshLin> Welcome Anirudh, we are yet to begin
[22:05] <anirudh> Thanks, AshLin.  Sorry about the delay.
[22:05] <AshLin> no issue, great that you can join :)
[22:06] <AshLin> the first question has just been poised...
[22:06] <AshLin> "so, the first thing probably could be to decide what
are the criteria that would make a city suitable or not"
[22:06] <AshLin> "what are your views on this?"
[22:06] <kalyan> city should have good communication - airport and
railhead very nearby
[22:07] <AshLin> Our contendors are Chandigarh, Nasik, Ahmednagar
[22:08] <kalyan> organizers should past experience in organizing
events of similar scale
[22:09] <anirudh> Should have a bunch of volunteers with some track
record to demonstrate that they will take the event through.
[22:09] <Ravidreams_> SMS reminders sent for viswa kalyan
[22:09] <AshLin> In this context, perhaps Chandigarh being a major
city of the North is best connected by rail. Nasik is on Central
Railway Mumbai-Agra route. Ahmednagar is on the Central Railway Daund
to Delhi route.
[22:10] <Abhay> What about Internet connectivity? 500 0
[22:10] <Abhay> 500 people online at the same time is a lot of
bandwidth requirement
[22:10] <anirudh> "city should have good communication" (kalyan)
[22:10] <Ravidreams_> The criteria already posted for bidding
emphasizes presence of domestic airport
[22:11] <kalyan> should have support from academic institutions if
possible a university.  this helps a lot imho.
[22:11] <Ravidreams_> No venue can support connectivity as is
[22:12] <Abhay> Yes, same for connectivity :-)
[22:12] <Abhay> So let's see if any of the cities have addressed each
requirement
[22:12] <Abhay> Which one do we want to tackle first?
[22:12] <Ravidreams_> Special arrangements shall be made through ISP
[22:12] <Abhay> Transportation perhaps?
[22:13] <Abhay> As Ashwin was saying,  Chandigarh seems the best candidate there
[22:13] <AshLin> Chandigarh is well connected by road & air and Delhi
serves as an international hub.
[22:13] <Abhay> Although Nashik is not too far behind
[22:14] <AshLin> Nashik has an airport airport but has few flights
[22:15] <Abhay> Yes.
[22:15] <Abhay> Railway connection is not too bad
[22:15] <AshLin> Ahmednagar has no airport, is much farther from
Mumbai, Pune is a nearby airport though smaller, rail connectivity is
satisfactory
[22:15] <Abhay> Better than Nagar but slightly worse than Chandigarh
[22:16] <anirudh> Cost is also another factor -- will the chapter be
funding airfare or railfare?  In what proportions?  If there is a
necessity to fund airfare for participants with scholarships, then an
airport with more traffic would make sense, as flight costs would tend
to be lower there.
[22:16] <AshLin> Imho, from aspect of connectivity only the rating
appears to be - Chandigarh, followed by Nashik, followed by Ahmednagar
[22:16] <Abhay> I agree
[22:17] <AshLin> Anirudh, that is a grey area, but your point is well
taken about the busier airport
[22:17] <Ravidreams_> Budget will be through direct PEG funding from WMF
[22:18] <AshLin> offline for a couple of minutes, please continue discussion..
[22:18] <Ravidreams_> WMIN won't be able to budget for a mega event like this
[22:18] <anirudh> Then again, these are secondary considerations, what
we must really focus on is the question of volunteer motivation.
Which team, do you think, has organisers who have a long-term
connection with Wikimedia projects and are the most motivated. :)
[22:19] <Ravidreams_> And hope WMF will fund all reasonable cost
[22:19] <anirudh> OK, that's understandable.  Still, the question
remains whether the organisers will seeking more funding for airfare
or railcar.
[22:21] <Ravidreams_> The usual normnis to give airfare only if
one-way travel is more than 24 hours
[22:21] <Ravidreams_> For a mega event like this
[22:22] <Abhay> I think funding part will be clear in round 2
[22:22] <Abhay> IMO, we should see if any or none or all the
candidates can be eliminated from going to round 2 at this point
[22:22] <anirudh> Yes, but the question matters when we discuss
connectivity... what are we in favour of... funding most participants
(w/ scholarships) to come over through rail or via air.  But
Ravidreams_ has now provided a certain standard.
[22:27] <Abhay> I believe all three are reachable from most parts of
India inside 24 hours by rail.
[22:27] <Abhay> Can someone corroborate that?
[22:27] <Abhay> "Most" being the keyword :-)
[22:29] <AshLin> am back
[22:30] <anirudh> Can't do Chennai to Chandigarh in 24 hours.
[22:30] <anirudh> 2.5 days?
[22:30] <anirudh> wb AshLin
[22:31] <AshLin> Nope, if Chandiugarh gets selected, then rail travel
WILL be a two day affair from South India, especially Kerala, Netha,
what say?
[22:32] <AshLin> Nashik & Nagar are roughly equidistant from North & South
[22:32] <kalyan> will logout and rejoin from pc
[22:33] <AshLin> Imho further discussion of fares, budgetting,
scholarship will better be postponed till later, what say?
[22:34] <kalyan_> agree
[22:34] <AshLin> Coming to community - two points came up
[22:34] <AshLin> first, does it have a strong volunteer community?
[22:35] <AshLin> second, does it have experience in organising a conference
[22:35] <AshLin> Lets consider each city, one by one
[22:36] <AshLin> Ravi, we need to know from your interaction about
your opinion about the community of these cities (considering the two
points previously mentioned)
[22:37] * AshLin slaps Ravidreams_ around a bit with a large fishbot
[22:37] <AshLin> :D
[22:38] <Netha> It takes 36 hours from kerala to new delhi
[22:40] <AshLin> ok, while we await Ravi's opinions - lets pool our
thoughts about community
[22:40] <AshLin> Chandigarh
[22:40] <Ravidreams_> Hi, I will give comments in 10 mins
[22:40] <AshLin>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiConference_India_2016/City/First_Bids#Chandigarh
[22:41] <kalyan_> On paper they have a 14 member local team
[22:42] <AshLin> yeah, I think these are basically Punjabi wikipedia guys
[22:42] <AshLin> I met Satdeep Gill at the Bangla Ten meetup at
Jadavpur University
[22:42] <kalyan_> Me too
[22:43] <AshLin> They appear to be enthusiastic - some activities have
been listed
[22:43] <AshLin> though, I really dont know ow active the supporters are
[22:43] <kalyan_> However, I'm quite sure if they have any experience
in organizing any kind of event
[22:44] <AshLin> Kalyan you are sure they dont have big meet experience?
[22:45] <kalyan_> Not sure
[22:45] <Abhay> I have not been to any offline events in India other
than Community Consultation in BLR last year, so I do not have a firm
opinion about the three teams listed.
[22:46] <kalyan_> They have listed only one offline event as their
past experience
[22:46] <AshLin> Lets move onto Nashik
[22:46] <AshLin>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiConference_India_2016/City/First_Bids#Nashik
[22:47] <AshLin> The community picture is nice but I only recognise
Abhi Suryawanshi there
[22:48] <kalyan_> But he is not listed in the local team
[22:48] <Abhay> He is not local
[22:48] <kalyan_> I know him from WCI 2011
[22:48] <Abhay> He is near Boston now
[22:49] <AshLin> There are about 14 signatures. There appears to be a
Nasik Wikipedia Club. They claim to have added value to Nashik article
during Kumbhathon
[22:49] <kalyan_> He is from Pune. I hope he can travel to Nashik and
support the event, in case he is India.
[22:50] <AshLin> But again, they do not appear to have a long track
record here either
[22:51] <kalyan_> Their track record seems to be better than Chandigarh
[22:51] <AshLin> Considering Ahmednagar
[22:51] <AshLin> Hardly any local supporters
[22:51] <kalyan_> Looks like a one man team
[22:52] <anirudh> gaga
[22:52] <AshLin> single local team guy listed, five supporters of
which four are members of other city communities
[22:53] <kalyan_> In my view we can eliminate Ahmednagar from the
contest straightaway
[22:53] <ravidreams> Back
[22:53] <AshLin> Wait, they have given a link about community support
[22:54] <AshLin>
https://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%A1%E0%A5%80/%E0%A4%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%B0_%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE#.E0.A4.B5.E0.A4.BF.E0.A4.95.E0.A4.BF.E0.A4.95.E0.A5.89.E0.A4.A8.E0.A5.8D.E0.A4.AB.E0.A4.B0.E0.A4.A8.E0.A5.8D.E0.A4.B8_.E0.A4.87.E0.A4.82.E0.A4.A1.E0.A4.BF.E0.A4.AF.E0.A4.BE_.E0.A5.A8.E0.A5.A6.E0.A5.A7.E0.A5.AC_.E0.A4.86.E0.A4.AF.
[22:54] <AshLin> wow, that os one long url
[22:55] <AshLin> four of the eight-nine supporters are Marathi
Wikipedians from outside
[22:56] <kalyan_> Sorry, unable to read
[22:56] <AshLin> Abhay, you have supported this. What is your view of
the community?
[22:58] <ravidreams> Please see
[22:58] <ravidreams>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2015-October/007030.html
[22:58] <AshLin> The mr wikipedia page translated here...
[22:59] <AshLin> https(colon)(slash)(slash)goo.gl(slash)photos(slash)dPJeFEHXzT15UidX9
[22:59] <Abhay> I believe that both Pune and Mumbai are ready to contribute
[23:00] <Abhay> Mumbai didn't put up a bid since they hosted in 2011
and are afraid their bid will be rejected outright for that reason
[23:00] <ravidreams> Travel connectivity by itself is good but can't
be weighted based on budget
[23:00] <ravidreams> Then none of the border areas of India can conduct WCI ever
[23:01] <ravidreams> It is the same like asia or any other country
opted out of wikimania becuase travel from US / Europe is costly
[23:01] <AshLin> There was some discussion on regarding Pune, but it
apparently has not borne fruit
[23:02] <AshLin> Ravi, that probably will hold true for going to
Northeast states in our context or beyond Jammu
[23:03] <AshLin> Why isn't Bangalore bidding? It has largest community
- multi-language community guys, both chapter & cis are there, best
connections
[23:04] <kalyan_> Very pertinent question
[23:04] <kalyan_> I'm surprised, Bengaluru has bid.
[23:04] <kalyan_> *hasn't
[23:04] <ravidreams> There is no active community vsiible here, sadly
[23:05] <AshLin> ok,
[23:05] <AshLin> lets get on with this aspect - community'
[23:06] <Abhay> No 2k volunteers in blr?
[23:06] <AshLin> Ravi, what is the state of community at each of these places?
[23:06] <AshLin> Bangalore had a humungous W10 celebration
[23:07] <AshLin> We'd appreciate any inputs you have
[23:07] <ravidreams> Held up in a official meet simulatenously
[23:07] <AshLin> ok
[23:07] <ravidreams> Apologies that I am unable to comment actively there
[23:07] <ravidreams> here
[23:07] <AshLin> its been an hour and a half plus
[23:08] <AshLin> continue or next time?
[23:08] <ravidreams> In my view, Punjabi bid has more clarity in terms
of budget and community support
[23:08] <anirudh> Its 0038hrs here and I am about to nod of
[23:08] <ravidreams> There is also a popular view that Wikimedia
movement in India is concentrated in the south
[23:08] <ravidreams> so, a conference in Punjab can help in lot of ways
[23:09] <AshLin> we have had an excellent conference in Kolkata this
Jan, so we could have a conference in the North
[23:10] <Abhay>  Here is my honest opinion on volunteers and
community.  The proof of pudding is in the eating. We need more proof
of past capability of each teams. At the very least, very clear plan
to tackle each aspect of the event. Without that, it is just
projections and promises. With all due respect to all volunteers,
organizing a 500 people meet is not trivial.
[23:10] <Abhay> Especially with out of town attendees.
[23:11] <AshLin> yeah, but the local community is any way incapable of
doing this meet on its own
[23:11] <AshLin> WCI 2011 we had about 50% involvement of out of
Mumbai-Pune members
[23:12] <Abhay> Fair enough Ashwin. But we need to see a plan that
addresses needs. Even if it involves outside hekp.
[23:12] <AshLin> the local aspects are their responsibility, other
facets, chapter/community at large can help with
[23:12] <AshLin> Point well taken, Abhay
[23:12] <Abhay> That will make me feel comfortable.  We do not want to
put the attendees and the organizING team through a lot of hardship
[23:13] <AshLin> so should we ask for a more details on these critical
aspects once again?
[23:13] <kalyan_> I think efficient manpower on ground matters most
[23:13] <Abhay> So here is what I propose.
[23:13] <kalyan_> I learnt it the hard way when we organized BN10
[23:13] <Abhay> Haha..Ashwin stole.my words :-)
[23:13] <AshLin> :) great minds think alike ;)
[23:16] <Abhay> Is it fair to say that all 3 are still in the running?
[23:16] <AshLin> okay, I think there is fatigue now. I plan to ask
these guys to improve their bids & details & cut out the tourist info
[23:17] <kalyan_> Abhay, can you elaborate on the community strength
of Ahmednagar?
[23:17] <AshLin> as of now, Chandigarh, Nashik, Ahmednagar seems to be
the ranking uptil now
[23:17] <kalyan_> Agreed
[23:18] <AshLin> let us see if the other two cities can come up with a
viable proposal so that we have more of a choice
[23:18] <AshLin> I'm yawning my head off
[23:18] <kalyan_> I guess both Nashik and Ahmednagar will have lot of
outside support from Mumbai & Pune
[23:18] <AshLin> True,
[23:19] <AshLin> but Chandigarh too can expect decent support from us
[23:19] <kalyan_> Would it be a good idea to ask the Marathi community
join hands and put up a viable bid from one of the cities?
[23:21] <Abhay> Kalyan, yes
[23:21] <AshLin> that's a thought, but artificially proppoing up a
city wont be right at this stage
[23:21] <AshLin> let the state of the community reveal itself
[23:21] <kalyan_> I'm not in favour of a 4th city putting up a bid
[23:21] <AshLin> then we can consider it
[23:22] <Abhay> I like Ashwin's idea of a round 1.1 where the cities
provide event related info and not touristy stff
[23:22] <kalyan_> But is it possible for either of Nashik or
Ahmednagar to support other and drop their own bid?
[23:22] <anirudh> (y)
[23:22] <Abhay> Kalyan, that is possible but I don't know for sure
[23:22] <kalyan_> Agree with Abhay
[23:23] <AshLin> If we change the rules so early in the game, nothing
will be sacrosanct. So let it be one of these three cities only - my
humble opinion also
[23:24] <Abhay> Ok. We made the following decisions then ... one of
these 3 only. We need concrete information about event organization
[23:24] <kalyan_> Agree with Ashwin's idea of a round 1.1 where the
cities provide event related info and not touristy stff.
[23:24] <Abhay> What else?
[23:25] <AshLin> okay friends, If you have no objection, I'll approach
all three cities for finer grain details. When we recieve that, we can
discuss again
[23:25] <kalyan_> Can we specifically ask them to provide more
information on the critical aspects that we discussed?
[23:25] <AshLin> absolutely,
[23:26] <Abhay> Including outside but documented support
[23:26] <AshLin> you can email me any other queries you have too. I'll
take 498 hours to make my post to them
[23:26] <Abhay> It is easy to say "oh yeah, I have 300 people supporting" :-)
[23:26] <kalyan_> True
[23:27] <AshLin> Oops *48
[23:27] <kalyan_> What matters is how many people are actually on ground
[23:28] <AshLin> I take it you guys have no objection to me putting up
our request to them
[23:29] <AshLin> okay then gn, I'm signing off
[23:29] <kalyan_> None from me either
[23:29] <anirudh> No objections from me.  Please go ahead!
[23:30] <AshLin> YAAAWN, :D gn
[23:30] <Abhay> 'Night all.