Wikimedia Canada/Meetings/2008-02-06/Logs

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Feb 06 20:11:06 <OhanaUnited>	ok, shall we start?
Feb 06 20:11:08 <StephaneThibault>	Currently at work myself but following the discussion from the corner of the eye
Feb 06 20:11:13 <Alan_Ca>	I need a moment
Feb 06 20:11:17 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: you can just do /mode +v NICK
Feb 06 20:11:19 <coldacid>	also lurking tonight
Feb 06 20:11:21 <Alan_Ca>	as Mitchell is absent
Feb 06 20:11:30 <kibble>	and can do up to 4 at a time, like /mode +vvvv NICK NICK NICK NICK
Feb 06 20:11:48 <kibble>	hmm, you might need to do /mode #wikimedia-ca +vvvv NICK NICK NICK NICK actually ;-)
Feb 06 20:11:57 <coldacid>	i take it that logging is on, so i'll repeat what i said earlier, before everyone started showing up
Feb 06 20:12:16 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to coldacid
Feb 06 20:12:21 <coldacid>	i'm withdrawing my candidacy for being a steering committee member-at-large due to time constraints from other organizations
Feb 06 20:12:32 *	Alan_Ca removes voice from coldacid
Feb 06 20:12:34 <Alan_Ca>	:)
Feb 06 20:12:41 <coldacid>	i'll still keep track and offer advice when asked
Feb 06 20:12:43 <OhanaUnited>	i can be secretary for today's meeting
Feb 06 20:12:43 <OhanaUnited>	but someone needs to do log, cause i'm connecting on wireless and it isn't as stable as land line
Feb 06 20:12:56 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to HOTR
Feb 06 20:14:03 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to Ktsquare
Feb 06 20:14:07 *	Pathoschild (n=pathos@wikimedia/Pathoschild) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:14:14 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to Pathoschild
Feb 06 20:14:20 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to Ayelie
Feb 06 20:14:32 <Alan_Ca>	Did I miss anyone?
Feb 06 20:14:35 <kibble>	no
Feb 06 20:14:44 <Alan_Ca>	I'm putting +v for the steering committee members
Feb 06 20:14:45 <OhanaUnited>	lucky i'm not the chair, so i dont have to set modes lol
Feb 06 20:14:47 *	Shanel (n=Shanel@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:14:55 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to Shanel
Feb 06 20:14:55 *	ChanServ gives voice to Shanel
Feb 06 20:14:58 <Alan_Ca>	haha
Feb 06 20:15:07 <wknight8111>	i could probably set up a script to do it nexttime
Feb 06 20:15:07 <Alan_Ca>	usually, the secretary does this for me :)
Feb 06 20:15:15 <Alan_Ca>	No worries
Feb 06 20:15:18 <Pathoschild>	wknight8111: Or just set autovoice. :)
Feb 06 20:15:22 <Alan_Ca>	I don't mind starting late
Feb 06 20:15:22 <coldacid>	yeah
Feb 06 20:15:25 <kibble>	Pathoschild: yep
Feb 06 20:15:27 <Ktsquare>	:)
Feb 06 20:15:30 <kibble>	but we dont' need to ;-)
Feb 06 20:15:34 <Alan_Ca>	As we can see people are showing up late, probably due to the storm
Feb 06 20:15:41 <kibble>	and it would be better if they're not voiced all the time :-P
Feb 06 20:15:44 <OhanaUnited>	cause i'm not a big fan of IRC
Feb 06 20:15:47 <Shanel>	This storm sucks.
Feb 06 20:15:50 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: bang the gavel
Feb 06 20:15:53 *	Shanel is freezing.
Feb 06 20:15:53 <OhanaUnited>	and dont know commands
Feb 06 20:15:53 <Alan_Ca>	BANG
Feb 06 20:15:58 <kibble>	lol
Feb 06 20:15:58 *	OhanaUnited is shivering
Feb 06 20:16:13 *	kibble worms mummy Shanel up
Feb 06 20:16:19 <Shanel>	:DD
Feb 06 20:16:20 *	kibble gives OhanaUnited some hot chocolate
Feb 06 20:16:24 <Alan_Ca>	ok, this serves as our second official meeting
Feb 06 20:16:43 <Alan_Ca>	Good evening everyone, I'm pleased to see we have such a dedicated group
Feb 06 20:16:45 <kibble>	===	#wikimedia-ca: +Shanel +Pathoschild tawker3 +OhanaUnited +HOTR yanstheman @Alan_Ca coldacid StephaneThibault +wknight8111 +Ayelie +Ktsquare tawker kibble Az1568 idealites @ChanServ
Feb 06 20:16:46 <kibble>		---	#wikimedia-ca: End of /NAMES list.
Feb 06 20:17:00 *	OhanaUnited drinks the Tim Horton's chocolate and feels much better
Feb 06 20:17:01 *	kibble (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Cbrown1023) has left #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:17:03 *	kibble (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Cbrown1023) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:17:14 *	tawker has quit (Nick collision from services.)
Feb 06 20:17:18 *	tawker3 is now known as tawker
Feb 06 20:17:21 *	ChanServ removes channel operator status from Alan_Ca
Feb 06 20:17:33 <Alan_Ca>	First, I received news earlier that coldacid will be stepping down as a steering committee member
Feb 06 20:17:49 <Alan_Ca>	Any comments on that coldacid?
Feb 06 20:17:53 *	Topic for #wikimedia-ca is: Welcome to the Wikimedia Canada (WMC) IRC channel! | | There will be a meeting tonight at 20:00 EST (UTC -5) in this channel for anyone interested in the formation of WMC. For more info please see here:
Feb 06 20:17:53 *	Topic for #wikimedia-ca set by yanstheman at Wed Feb  6 15:26:10 2008
Feb 06 20:17:57 *	OhanaUnited has quit ()
Feb 06 20:18:20 <coldacid>	well, since its something thats just starting i felt my leaving as someone in such a position would be felt the least here rather than any of hte other orgs i work with
Feb 06 20:18:21 *	OhanaUnited ( has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:18:47 <coldacid>	my time and net connectivity is unfortunately limited
Feb 06 20:18:51 <Alan_Ca>	It's no problem, thank you for your interest.  Hopefully you will be able to stick around to provide input
Feb 06 20:18:57 <OhanaUnited>	grrr... my apologies
Feb 06 20:19:06 <coldacid>	i intend to be, at least through the mailing list
Feb 06 20:19:17 <OhanaUnited>	if it keeps connectin and disconnecting, i'll go back to my old computer (land line)
Feb 06 20:19:20 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Alan_Ca
Feb 06 20:19:30 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to OhanaUnited
Feb 06 20:19:33 <Ktsquare>	I agree with alan
Feb 06 20:19:37 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to Alan_Ca
Feb 06 20:19:53 *	Alan_Ca removes channel operator status from Alan_Ca
Feb 06 20:20:04 <OhanaUnited>	so... what are we going to do?
Feb 06 20:20:05 <Alan_Ca>	On what KTSquare?
Feb 06 20:20:16 <OhanaUnited>	since the 3rd place is tied (and no vote is casted)
Feb 06 20:20:46 <StephaneThibault>	May I join in?
Feb 06 20:20:47 <Ktsquare>	on appreciating coldacid's interest
Feb 06 20:20:47 <Alan_Ca>	From my perspective, I say we keep all 4
Feb 06 20:20:59 <Alan_Ca>	ok
Feb 06 20:21:09 <Alan_Ca>	Stephane, what would you like to say?
Feb 06 20:21:17 <Ktsquare>	May I join in?
Feb 06 20:21:24 <Alan_Ca>	yes kt
Feb 06 20:21:46 <Alan_Ca>	Ok
Feb 06 20:22:01 <Alan_Ca>	Anyone who is not voiced that wishes to participate please submit your questions to me by private msg
Feb 06 20:22:19 <StephaneThibault>	Well, as I was involved in setting up this project for the past two years and that I wasn't contacted for the first meetings I would like a little time to read the logs before the position is submitted to vote
Feb 06 20:22:19 <Alan_Ca>	I would like to have an open discussion on the idea of keeping all four members at large
Feb 06 20:22:52 <Alan_Ca>	Stephane, I assure you, if you have dedicated interest to getting this charity started we will find a spot for you
Feb 06 20:22:58 <Ayelie>	StephaneThibault are you interested in the Members-at-Large position?
Feb 06 20:23:17 <Alan_Ca>	Ok
Feb 06 20:23:19 <StephaneThibault>	This is why I need more time to see what work has been duplicated first
Feb 06 20:23:19 <Pathoschild>	More members means less workload per member, so I'm all for it (as one of those candidate members).
Feb 06 20:23:25 <Alan_Ca>	Let's bump this dicussion until 08:45ish
Feb 06 20:23:27 <OhanaUnited>	honestly, this is steering committee
Feb 06 20:23:27 <OhanaUnited>	it's NO BIG DEAL
Feb 06 20:23:43 <Alan_Ca>	But rest assured, if you want to help, we're not going to turn you away
Feb 06 20:23:45 <OhanaUnited>	second
Feb 06 20:23:51 <Alan_Ca>	ok moving on
Feb 06 20:23:53 <Ktsquare>	third
Feb 06 20:24:06 <Alan_Ca>	As to the bylaws, HOTR would you like to give the group a brief update?
Feb 06 20:24:41 *	OhanaUnited is now known as OhanaUnited|brb
Feb 06 20:25:02 <wknight8111>	I've gotten a good first review of the bylaws now, I can share some of my notes when it's time
Feb 06 20:25:10 <Alan_Ca>	ok
Feb 06 20:25:17 <Alan_Ca>	Wknight, would you share your thoughts on what we have?
Feb 06 20:25:38 <wknight8111>	okay
Feb 06 20:25:41 <Alan_Ca>	For those who are new to the meetings, wknight is representing chapcomm
Feb 06 20:26:24 <wknight8111>	This is a good first draft of the bylaws, but there are a few points that I think need to be expanded, clarified, or fixed
Feb 06 20:26:56 *	HOTR peeks back in (catching up on reading)
Feb 06 20:27:35 >Alan_Ca<	could you please post/ask about a link to the current draft under discussion?
Feb 06 20:27:40 <Alan_Ca>	Ok, what are those points generally?
Feb 06 20:27:42 <wknight8111>	"Statement of Purpose" needs to be expanded. Try to be more specific about what your goals are, what your ideals are, etc. Maybe be more general by saying "the WMF and like-minded organizations"
Feb 06 20:28:23 <Alan_Ca>	wknight, would it be possible for you to take the next week if needed and post your comments on the talk page for the bylaw page at
Feb 06 20:28:35 <wknight8111>	I could do that, if you don't want them all here
Feb 06 20:28:36 *	Monobi (n=User@unaffiliated/monobi) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:29:05 <Alan_Ca>	Yes, I think it would be best if the thoughts were posted
Feb 06 20:29:20 <wknight8111>	Okay, I'll do that then. I should have that done within a day or two
Feb 06 20:29:24 <Alan_Ca>	I know we intended to have some discussion for this meeting, but some soft deadlines were not met and I think we should push it 
Feb 06 20:29:29 <Alan_Ca>	Excellent
Feb 06 20:29:51 <wknight8111>	that's fair
Feb 06 20:29:57 *	OhanaUnited ( has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:29:59 <Alan_Ca>	I would like to talk about the project page
Feb 06 20:30:13 <HOTR>	Ok, I'm almost caught up, will provide an update/comments in a sec
Feb 06 20:30:14 <OhanaUnited>	back to main line, so my connection should be stable now
Feb 06 20:30:19 <Alan_Ca>	Do we have anyone interested that would like to revamp the main page?
Feb 06 20:30:31 <Ayelie>	define "revamp" ?
Feb 06 20:30:36 <StephaneThibault>	I may be able to anwser some questions on the project page if needed
Feb 06 20:30:48 <Alan_Ca>	Web dev is not my strength
Feb 06 20:30:53 <Ktsquare>	please define recamp?
Feb 06 20:30:55 <Ayelie>	and which main page?
Feb 06 20:30:56 <Alan_Ca>	But I know the current page is not easy to read or maintain
Feb 06 20:31:02 <kibble>	Ayelie: [[m:WMC]]
Feb 06 20:31:05 <Alan_Ca>
Feb 06 20:31:05 <Ayelie>	the one or the meta page?
Feb 06 20:31:19 <Ayelie>	ah
Feb 06 20:31:19 <Ayelie>	I can organize it neatly
Feb 06 20:31:23 <Ayelie>	is the information okay?
Feb 06 20:31:28 <StephaneThibault>	It was much easier to maintain [the Meta page] before another user broke the links
Feb 06 20:31:52 *	HOTR is now known as HistoryOnTheRoad
Feb 06 20:32:03 <Alan_Ca>	There are a few items that I would like clear at the top
Feb 06 20:32:05 <StephaneThibault>	There used to be an "Edit" link on each frame for easy access
Feb 06 20:32:08 <Alan_Ca>	1) The next meeting
Feb 06 20:32:20 <Alan_Ca>	2) A link to the steering committee page
Feb 06 20:32:36 <Alan_Ca>	3) A progress update of where we are active
Feb 06 20:32:37 <Ktsquare>	I suggest organizing [the Meta page] first
Feb 06 20:32:48 <Alan_Ca>	yes, the meta page at is what I"m talking about
Feb 06 20:33:07 <Ktsquare>	ok, alan. I am following you.
Feb 06 20:33:25 <Alan_Ca>	I just want it to be clear that we are working and here are the main contacts
Feb 06 20:33:41 <Alan_Ca>	The steering committee page will need defining as the roles of the volunteers becomes more clear
Feb 06 20:33:56 <Ayelie>	well, I can make it presentable - simple table layout to make things clearer, nothing fancy?
Feb 06 20:33:58 <Alan_Ca>	For now we can link to the vote page
Feb 06 20:34:06 <Alan_Ca>	I'm not looking for pretty
Feb 06 20:34:08 <StephaneThibault>	I am willing to volunteer to update it since I originally set it up
Feb 06 20:34:09 <Pathoschild>	Alan_Ca: I'll take a look at making a new design.
Feb 06 20:34:14 <Ayelie>	whoa, lag
Feb 06 20:34:15 <Ayelie>	sorry
Feb 06 20:34:16 <Alan_Ca>	The key idea is to make it easy to read and know that things are happening
Feb 06 20:34:18 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	StephaneThibault: As an aside, there were a few of us that got the bylaw stuff rolling last year ... it was all based on what was pre-existing on the Meta page. I even think I contacted you at some point, by your UserTalk page on Meta.
Feb 06 20:34:49 <OhanaUnited>	guys, let's not get technical here
Feb 06 20:34:57 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	StephaneThibault: You are in Montreal, correct?
Feb 06 20:34:59 <OhanaUnited>	we need as much help as possible to start WMC
Feb 06 20:35:09 <Alan_Ca>	Ok, I need a motion from one of the voiced members regarding who will be assigned to the meta page
Feb 06 20:35:42 *	Shanel votes Pathoschild, since he's good at such things. :)
Feb 06 20:36:01 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: We've had a few volunteers ... anyone have time in the next few days?
Feb 06 20:37:06 <Ktsquare>	anyone have time in the next few days?<-----may I know the purpose of it?
Feb 06 20:37:07 <StephaneThibault>	Would this include next week-end?
Feb 06 20:37:33 <Alan_Ca>	A timeline of 1 week is fine with me
Feb 06 20:37:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	StephaneThibault: Sure.
Feb 06 20:37:44 <Alan_Ca>	I would like to have a new format by the next meeting
Feb 06 20:37:54 <StephaneThibault>	Say what you need and I can do it this week-end
Feb 06 20:37:54 <Ktsquare>	Would this include next week-end? <-----I have the same question.
Feb 06 20:37:58 <Alan_Ca>	Which will be at least a week from now
Feb 06 20:38:10 <Ayelie>	I have nothing to do for the next two weeks or so, I'm stuck in Waterloo ;)
Feb 06 20:38:25 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	EOL: We'll find something for ya ;)
Feb 06 20:38:44 <StephaneThibault>	@Ktsquare: revamping the project page
Feb 06 20:38:44 <Alan_Ca>	I would like Ayelie and one other person
Feb 06 20:39:11 <OhanaUnited>	i would go for ktsquare
Feb 06 20:39:32 <Ktsquare>	me for revamping the project page
Feb 06 20:39:34 <Ayelie>	I will do the design part, I can whip that up tomorrow and be done
Feb 06 20:39:35 <Alan_Ca>	ok, KTSquare, please work with Ayelie to revamp the main project page by next week
Feb 06 20:39:48 <Ktsquare>	sry, a bit of lag here.
Feb 06 20:39:49 <Ayelie>	:)
Feb 06 20:39:56 *	Pathoschild is working on a design separately, so we can choose one next week or put them together. :)
Feb 06 20:40:07 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Ah ok
Feb 06 20:40:11 <Alan_Ca>	Mitchell (greaves) is a good contact for that as he is serving as secretary
Feb 06 20:40:15 <Alan_Ca>	ok, sounds good pathoschild
Feb 06 20:40:19 <Ayelie>	Pathoschild: no black backgrounds :P
Feb 06 20:40:23 <OhanaUnited>	lol
Feb 06 20:40:24 <Shanel>	XD
Feb 06 20:40:26 <Pathoschild>	Fine~. :P
Feb 06 20:40:38 <OhanaUnited>	and no pink!
Feb 06 20:40:38 <Alan_Ca>	Regardless, Ktsquare and ayelie, I will expect something by next wednesday
Feb 06 20:40:40 <Ktsquare>	So me, ayelie and pathoschild?
Feb 06 20:40:44 <StephaneThibault>	If I'm not involved in revamping the project, I at least insist the bilingual structure is kept the way it is
Feb 06 20:40:52 <Alan_Ca>	Pathos has stated they will work independently
Feb 06 20:41:02 <Ayelie>	well we can collaborate as well
Feb 06 20:41:03 <Shanel>	He. :)
Feb 06 20:41:07 <Alan_Ca>	Stephane, the bilingual structure does not work
Feb 06 20:41:11 <Ayelie>	help with links and stuff and then develop designs and choose at the end
Feb 06 20:41:19 <Alan_Ca>	As it stands right now
Feb 06 20:41:29 <Ktsquare>	well we can collaborate as well<-----I agree with this.
Feb 06 20:41:31 <StephaneThibault>	They all used to be there and can be fixed quite easily
Feb 06 20:41:34 <Alan_Ca>	I would prefer to have a link written in french to refer to a french version of the information
Feb 06 20:41:40 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	StephaneThibault: We don't currently have someone who is bilingual on the committee. Would you like to be involved in bilingual parts?
Feb 06 20:42:03 <Alan_Ca>	I don't want to go off on the tangent about that right now HOTR
Feb 06 20:42:04 <Pathoschild>	The design I'm working on is bilingual, but much less cluttered.
Feb 06 20:42:10 <Ayelie>	HistoryOnTheRoad Pathoschild  is bilingual ;)
Feb 06 20:42:20 *	Ayelie is aiming for a bilingual arrangement as well, for the main page
Feb 06 20:42:22 <OhanaUnited>	sweet, problem solved, case closed
Feb 06 20:42:27 <Alan_Ca>	Problem is not solved
Feb 06 20:42:29 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Right now, we are translating through volunteers, but it would be nice to have some real involvement (the volunteers aren't Canadian, so can't be part of WM Canada)
Feb 06 20:42:49 <Alan_Ca>	We decided our first language will be English
Feb 06 20:42:52 *	Pathoschild pokes HistoryOnTheRoad and points at himself.
Feb 06 20:43:11 <Alan_Ca>	I would love to have french translation, but I want any english speaking member to be able to update the main page
Feb 06 20:43:16 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Pathoschild: Ah, you are Canadian? 
Feb 06 20:43:21 <kibble>	yep
Feb 06 20:43:21 <Shanel>	He is.
Feb 06 20:43:22 *	HistoryOnTheRoad blushes
Feb 06 20:43:23 <Alan_Ca>	If it has more than a french link, this will be an issue
Feb 06 20:43:25 <kibble>	he lives in some place
Feb 06 20:43:27 <Shanel>	An evil Quebecois.
Feb 06 20:43:33 *	HistoryOnTheRoad apologizes to Pathoschild
Feb 06 20:43:47 <OhanaUnited>	but that means we double the pages
Feb 06 20:43:58 <StephaneThibault>	If there isn't more than a french link, we'll definitely have an issue...
Feb 06 20:43:59 <OhanaUnited>	because each page exist in English and French, surely it is hard to maintain eh?
Feb 06 20:44:14 <Alan_Ca>	Right now 100% of the people involved speak, read and write english
Feb 06 20:44:14 <kibble>	Shanel: sounds like a disease O_O
Feb 06 20:44:26 <Alan_Ca>	This is a steering committee to start a charity
Feb 06 20:44:29 <Alan_Ca>	Not the charity itself
Feb 06 20:44:44 <OhanaUnited>	i agree, we're not quite there yet
Feb 06 20:44:49 <Alan_Ca>	Most of the paper work will have to be done by a local group of people meeting face to face
Feb 06 20:44:57 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	We'll have to come up with something workable for French/English, the sooner the better.
Feb 06 20:44:59 <OhanaUnited>	this issue will be addressed later, not now though
Feb 06 20:45:21 <Alan_Ca>	We already decided this at a previous meeting
Feb 06 20:45:24 <OhanaUnited>	when we got other issues on hand already
Feb 06 20:45:45 <Alan_Ca>	Ktsquare, please make sure that your new version of the meta page is in english with a french link
Feb 06 20:45:48 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	While I agree that the corporate documents are going to be done in English, we definately have to have everything in both languages.
Feb 06 20:45:51 <Pathoschild>	:)
Feb 06 20:45:58 <Ktsquare>	Referring to meeting locally, it can be collaborated with revitalizing the meetup.
Feb 06 20:46:33 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR: We already decided previously the steering committee itself will proceed in english with french translations as possible
Feb 06 20:47:00 *	OhanaUnited|brb has quit (Connection timed out)
Feb 06 20:47:31 *	OhanaUnited has quit ()
Feb 06 20:47:35 <Alan_Ca>	Any other thoughts on the web page before we move on?
Feb 06 20:47:36 *	OhanaUnited ( has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:47:41 <StephaneThibault>	Be it noted on the record that I disagree with the single french link approach for the project page to make it easier on english speaking members only
Feb 06 20:47:50 <Alan_Ca>	noted
Feb 06 20:47:53 <StephaneThibault>	TY
Feb 06 20:47:57 <tawker>	yeah, at this stage, lets try and avoid lots of translations
Feb 06 20:48:03 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I agree with StephaneThibault in that regard. 
Feb 06 20:48:06 <Ayelie>	I agree with StephaneThibault
Feb 06 20:48:22 <Alan_Ca>	This issue was already decided previously
Feb 06 20:48:47 <Alan_Ca>	It may be revisited in the future, but at this point, the main page is to be english with a french link
Feb 06 20:49:02 *	bastique (n=NotSheep@wikimedia/Bastique) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:49:02 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	If we decided to do the Wiki in English only, then I misunderstood. Meetings and corporate documents, so we could start the charity, yes. But the web pages can't be done this way.
Feb 06 20:49:04 <bastique>	ooooh
Feb 06 20:49:07 *	kibble huggles bastique
Feb 06 20:49:07 <bastique>	I forgot
Feb 06 20:49:11 <kibble>	;-)
Feb 06 20:49:16 <bastique>	salut tlm
Feb 06 20:49:18 <bastique>	!!
Feb 06 20:49:26 <StephaneThibault>	Salut Bastique
Feb 06 20:49:27 <Shanel>	;D
Feb 06 20:49:28 *	bastique don un gross bisou a idealites
Feb 06 20:49:33 <Alan_Ca>	On wikipedia, any article which I read, can easily be translated by selecting a language
Feb 06 20:49:39 <Shanel>	A wild bastique appears.
Feb 06 20:49:47 <bastique>	La canal bilingue!
Feb 06 20:49:51 <Alan_Ca>	Why should we clutter any page with two languages in one article?
Feb 06 20:50:05 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Treating French as second class now will not go well for future things. We can simplify things and get everything translated, so we should.
Feb 06 20:50:12 <Alan_Ca>	It is not second class
Feb 06 20:50:21 <StephaneThibault>	Because this will set the direction of the whole project
Feb 06 20:50:24 <bastique>	*gasp*
Feb 06 20:50:26 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	bastique: Hi Cary
Feb 06 20:50:27 <Ayelie>	when and where was the monolingual page decided on? if we can have a clean bilingual page it's far better than a link to the French version. it's the best way. it's the Main Page, IT at least should be bilingual. 
Feb 06 20:50:38 <bastique>	here here!
Feb 06 20:51:05 <Ayelie>	it's not hard to have a clean bilingual version, and it's not hard to update. You change two links on ONE page instead of editing two pages to change said links.
Feb 06 20:51:07 <Alan_Ca>	I don't think everyone here understands the purpose of this steering committee
Feb 06 20:51:22 <Alan_Ca>	It is to operate efficiently to start the Wikimedia Canada charity
Feb 06 20:51:35 <Alan_Ca>	It will do this in the most time and cost effective fashion
Feb 06 20:51:48 <Alan_Ca>	This is not a venue for political statements, it is simply a working group to start a charity
Feb 06 20:51:50 <kibble>	bastique: you came in the middle of the not so fun drama
Feb 06 20:52:06 <Alan_Ca>	The charity itself will most likely be a bilingual charity, that is a bylaw issue
Feb 06 20:52:15 *	Maximr (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/maximr2) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:52:20 <Alan_Ca>	But in terms of this working group, it will work in english 
Feb 06 20:52:25 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: May I make a recommendation.  While you may have your goals, you're liable to find people willing to help out on all the processes.  If you start alienating others from the get-go, you'll suffer major setbacks
Feb 06 20:52:28 <kibble>	emphasis on this
Feb 06 20:52:48 <Ayelie>	a bilingual page IS time and cost effective. End of story, no issues. it isn't an article it's the main page.  Pathoschild  and I at least are creating bilingual versions and if they are clean and simple there is no reason to remove the French portion.
Feb 06 20:53:10 <Alan_Ca>	Ayelie, if I want to update the main page
Feb 06 20:53:11 <bastique>	If you have the willingness to do this from the start, then by all means, allow it.
Feb 06 20:53:14 <Alan_Ca>	I ahve to know french to do it
Feb 06 20:53:23 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca  you update the ENGLISH portion.
Feb 06 20:53:25 <Alan_Ca>	This is a barrier to me or any anglophone updating the page
Feb 06 20:53:33 <Ayelie>	and you let a French person update the French portion.
Feb 06 20:53:37 <Alan_Ca>	Then we have an english and french version, on the same page, that our out of synch
Feb 06 20:53:45 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: Never for very long
Feb 06 20:53:49 <StephaneThibault>	Again, both links used to be provided for simple editing purposes
Feb 06 20:53:52 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: you update the English version
Feb 06 20:53:54 <kibble>	I stab pathos
Feb 06 20:53:59 <kibble>	and he updates the fr version :-D
Feb 06 20:54:02 <bastique>	It gets done!
Feb 06 20:54:03 <Shanel>	:D
Feb 06 20:54:05 <bastique>	tout suite!
Feb 06 20:54:13 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca if you have separate pages the French version will be out of sync as well, just not visible
Feb 06 20:54:29 <Alan_Ca>	Right, so the french page will only suffer at the lack of volunteers to translate
Feb 06 20:54:33 <Ayelie>	this way it IS visible and more obvious. In your edit summary you write "French portion needs updating".
Feb 06 20:54:42 <wknight8111>	arguing about the language of the main page really isn't that productive right now. Let the web designers do their thing, and let's get back to business
Feb 06 20:54:42 *	Pathoschild has quit ("lagged out")
Feb 06 20:54:44 <Alan_Ca>	It will not impede the progress of the committee or its communications
Feb 06 20:54:55 <OhanaUnited>	thanks andrew
Feb 06 20:55:01 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca  how on earth do English speakers suffer if the French half of the page has a wrong link!?
Feb 06 20:55:03 <OhanaUnited>	i was going to say that
Feb 06 20:55:15 <Alan_Ca>	Ok, here is my proposal
Feb 06 20:55:20 <Ktsquare>	:)
Feb 06 20:55:22 <Alan_Ca>	We proceed with the bilingual page
Feb 06 20:55:28 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I'm not a great writer in French. But we've managed through great volunteers to keep the bilingual meta site pages up to date.
Feb 06 20:55:29 *	Pathoschild (n=pathos@wikimedia/Pathoschild) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:55:38 *	kibble huggles Pathoschild
Feb 06 20:55:47 <Alan_Ca>	But if it causes a problem as in... the english is not translated in a timely fashion or it makes the page difficult to maintain, it will be removed
Feb 06 20:55:50 <OhanaUnited>	don't let minor stuff or technicalities halts the project
Feb 06 20:56:00 <Alan_Ca>	The language issue is not minor
Feb 06 20:56:06 <StephaneThibault>	Agreed
Feb 06 20:56:07 <Alan_Ca>	There is a lot of concern over it
Feb 06 20:56:18 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca my thoughts as well. if it causes issues we can fix it. 
Feb 06 20:56:42 <Maximr>	Alan_Ca, do you seriously need to turn this into a language dispute?
Feb 06 20:56:52 <Alan_Ca>	Maximr, we are moving on
Feb 06 20:56:55 <Maximr>	the goal is to have a Wikimedia chapter in Canada
Feb 06 20:56:57 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I second your motion to have the main page bilingual.
Feb 06 20:57:05 <Pathoschild>	Sorry, I lagged out several minutes ago.
Feb 06 20:57:11 <Alan_Ca>	No problem
Feb 06 20:57:17 <Alan_Ca>	Debate and argument is healthy
Feb 06 20:57:24 <Alan_Ca>	That is how we will get this moving
Feb 06 20:57:30 <bastique>	Pathoschild: Slacker!
Feb 06 20:57:33 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Pathoschild: No problem, I think we are all in agreement again.
Feb 06 20:57:46 <Alan_Ca>	Ok
Feb 06 20:57:49 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: Would you like an update on the by-laws?
Feb 06 20:57:52 <kibble>	Pathoschild: we decided to use you as a translation slave :-)
Feb 06 20:57:58 <Alan_Ca>	sure Hotr, do tell
Feb 06 20:57:59 <Pathoschild>	Yay. >_>
Feb 06 20:58:11 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	By-law report.
Feb 06 20:58:28 *	bastique recommends all English sentences on the Main Page end in ", eh."
Feb 06 20:58:30 *	bastique ducks
Feb 06 20:58:36 <kibble>	hehe
Feb 06 20:58:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I've sat down and gone through and merged the two sets of bylaws together
Feb 06 20:58:46 <kibble>	bastique: ayup, I agree :-P
Feb 06 20:58:49 *	Ayelie seconds bastique's motion, eh?
Feb 06 20:59:07 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	They were of the same mindest, so in most cases it wasn't too difficult.
Feb 06 20:59:15 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Alan_Ca
Feb 06 20:59:21 <kibble>	did you get your model, HistoryOnTheRoad ?
Feb 06 20:59:24 *	Alan_Ca sets mode +m #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 20:59:25 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	"same spirit, different letter" in momst cases
Feb 06 20:59:42 *	Alan_Ca removes channel operator status from Alan_Ca
Feb 06 20:59:51 <Ktsquare>	brb
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Feb 06 20:59:57 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to kibble
Feb 06 21:00:02 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to coldacid
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Feb 06 21:00:19 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I did, but unfortunatly it had been promised to me last Thursday, and I only got a paper copy today, so I'm hoping to get a boilerplate by electronic means shortly.
Feb 06 21:00:31 <kibble>	:-(
Feb 06 21:00:40 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Alan_Ca
Feb 06 21:00:42 <kibble>	did you see my comment on the talk page? that thing that Ec brought up I think
Feb 06 21:00:45 *	Alan_Ca gives voice to OhanaUnited
Feb 06 21:01:08 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR, so you're saying the version on meta is not your version?
Feb 06 21:01:09 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I was hoping to consolidate and "legalise" it all in one swoop, but it will have to be two steps.
Feb 06 21:01:12 <OhanaUnited>	yah, i saw that
Feb 06 21:01:16 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: you can do /msg chanserv voice #wikimedia-ca NICK
Feb 06 21:01:16 <OhanaUnited>	was about to bring that up
Feb 06 21:01:27 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: it never was :-)
Feb 06 21:01:34 <kibble>	he just merged Ec's and Greeves'
Feb 06 21:01:35 <Alan_Ca>	sorry wknight
Feb 06 21:01:38 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Ec and Greeves authored the original drafts, I rectified and merged them
Feb 06 21:01:43 <Ktsquare>	back
Feb 06 21:01:45 <Alan_Ca>	wknight had just invested some time into review it
Feb 06 21:01:56 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I saw his comments
Feb 06 21:02:26 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	There definately needs to be some further review, some of the sections aren't perfectly clear as written.
Feb 06 21:02:33 <Alan_Ca>	excellent
Feb 06 21:02:41 <OhanaUnited>	his comments are thoughtful, but it's way too ahead of us
Feb 06 21:02:42 <Alan_Ca>	So in terms of moving forward with the bylaws, where do we stand?
Feb 06 21:02:45 <wknight8111>	Just let me know when you want me to review it\
Feb 06 21:02:53 <Alan_Ca>	Hotr, 
Feb 06 21:03:08 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: like 75% I'd say
Feb 06 21:03:12 <kibble>	ew have the base down
Feb 06 21:03:21 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	And we probably want to clarify things a bit more. I would propose we have a (limited) comment period, after which we can have them reviewed for legality.
Feb 06 21:03:22 <kibble>	HOTR is reviewing and is goign to get a boilerplate soon
Feb 06 21:03:40 <kibble>	but we have the basis down, just need to clarify some points and get them reviewed
Feb 06 21:03:59 *	coldacid has quit (Connection timed out)
Feb 06 21:04:12 <Alan_Ca>	I would like to get a basic version to build from
Feb 06 21:04:19 <Alan_Ca>	Do you know when you will have that posted HOTR?
Feb 06 21:04:46 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Yes. We should get wknight8111 to let us know if there is anything lacking from a WMF Chapters committee point of view, I haven't looked into what is required by WMF since we started the bylaw authoring some months back.
Feb 06 21:05:10 <kibble>	Just for the record, Cary_Bass (bastique) suggests that this channel not be moderated and you know I have said that in the past, Alan_Ca :-)
Feb 06 21:05:40 *	ChanServ removes channel operator status from Alan_Ca
Feb 06 21:05:57 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I think we have a solid base now -- we need to check for obvious legal oversight, and I'll either do that from the typed copy that I have, or hopefully an electronic one in the next day or so.
Feb 06 21:06:19 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR, can we proceed with the electronic version posted on meta as a base?
Feb 06 21:06:21 <wknight8111>	I have a few links that you all should definitely read:
Feb 06 21:06:22 <wknight8111>
Feb 06 21:06:25 <Alan_Ca>	and start working with wknight's feedback?
Feb 06 21:06:30 <wknight8111>
Feb 06 21:06:36 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: Yes
Feb 06 21:06:37 <wknight8111>
Feb 06 21:06:44 <kibble>	heh, I just published some translations of those earlier tonight, wknight8111 ;-)
Feb 06 21:06:46 <OhanaUnited>	haha, i remember those links...
Feb 06 21:06:59 <OhanaUnited>	i asked everyone to read those in the informal meeting
Feb 06 21:07:02 <wknight8111>	Yeah, they're not perfectly up-to-date, but their still important
Feb 06 21:07:03 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	wknight8111: I've read that, and I think we have those links on our Home page at meta
Feb 06 21:07:56 <Alan_Ca>	How do you guys want to proceed with the bylaws?
Feb 06 21:08:13 <Alan_Ca>	From what I recall the big issue is the membership fees
Feb 06 21:08:31 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Membership fees don't have to be in the bylaws.
Feb 06 21:08:31 <OhanaUnited>	that's the issue in email
Feb 06 21:08:44 <OhanaUnited>	i think they do
Feb 06 21:08:59 <Alan_Ca>	Hotr, you had legal advice on that point?
Feb 06 21:08:59 <OhanaUnited>	cause if there's membership, members are required to pay in order to maintain in good standing
Feb 06 21:09:07 <Alan_Ca>	good point ohana
Feb 06 21:09:24 <Alan_Ca>	I'm thinking we should start with $50.00
Feb 06 21:09:33 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: working person
Feb 06 21:09:39 <Alan_Ca>	but I'm sure there is going to be a lot of expression about this
Feb 06 21:09:39 <OhanaUnited>	$50 per person?
Feb 06 21:09:45 <Ktsquare>	cause if there's membership, members are required to pay in order to maintain in good standing<---how would one define good standing?
Feb 06 21:09:48 <kibble>	HistoryOnTheRoad: just add a clause that says something like "Membership fees defined by the Board?"
Feb 06 21:09:53 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I mean that we can use wording like "a fee, if any, shall be determined from time to time by the board, and shall be charged annually, if there is one in effect"
Feb 06 21:09:54 <kibble>	Ktsquare: voting?
Feb 06 21:09:55 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca if the bylaw report is done please -m the channel
Feb 06 21:10:14 <Alan_Ca>	Ayelie, this is part of the bylaw discussion
Feb 06 21:10:24 <kibble>	is it necessary to be +m though?
Feb 06 21:10:28 <Ayelie>	I think membership fees are something others should be able to discuss as well
Feb 06 21:10:31 <Alan_Ca>	yes, I want to wrap this up
Feb 06 21:10:35 <Alan_Ca>	It is
Feb 06 21:10:40 <kibble>	I think 50 is a bit high
Feb 06 21:10:42 <Alan_Ca>	That is what I want to discuss now
Feb 06 21:10:47 <Alan_Ca>	How do we proceed?
Feb 06 21:10:50 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Hang on all, for a sec
Feb 06 21:10:53 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	:D
Feb 06 21:11:05 <kibble>	and we should probably have something different for working vs. non-working (ie. student / senior) vs. group
Feb 06 21:11:21 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I think that the bylaw should refer to a possible membership fee. We don't want to tie the boards hands. 
Feb 06 21:11:42 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I think that fee should be determined in an open manner, and not attached to the bylaw discussion.
Feb 06 21:11:45 <Alan_Ca>	I agree HOTR in terms of not tying the hands, but I think we need to specify an ammount in a schedule
Feb 06 21:11:48 <Ayelie>	if you wish to discuss membership fees please -m the channel, HistoryOnTheRoad's main report is done. 
Feb 06 21:12:05 <Alan_Ca>	Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a binding discussion
Feb 06 21:12:06 <OhanaUnited>	$50 is definetely on the high side
Feb 06 21:12:09 <Alan_Ca>	This is a summary discussion
Feb 06 21:12:09 <Ktsquare>	Paying the membership fees define the good standing of a member. Am I understanding correctly from Ohana?
Feb 06 21:12:14 <OhanaUnited>	consider the fact that someone has to pay $50 each year
Feb 06 21:12:14 <Alan_Ca>	There will be public discussion
Feb 06 21:12:24 <OhanaUnited>	ktsquare: yes
Feb 06 21:12:44 <Alan_Ca>	In other words, if you want to have a say in how things are run, it costs you x / year
Feb 06 21:12:55 <Alan_Ca>	We can have non-voting members
Feb 06 21:13:19 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I have to obtain Legal advice as to what has to be in the bylaws, but I think a reference to the board determing a fee, if any, should suffice for the bylaw.
Feb 06 21:13:21 <Alan_Ca>	But I want to make sure that if people are deciding the direction of the budget or the people who direct it, they are committed financially to the project
Feb 06 21:13:40 *	ChanServ sets mode -m #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 21:13:42 <Ktsquare>	$50 is on the high side.
Feb 06 21:13:42 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR, I have seen that they refer to a schedule, a schedule that can change
Feb 06 21:14:28 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Alan_Ca
Feb 06 21:14:30 <Ktsquare>	In other words, if you want to have a say in how things are run, it costs you x / year<------:)
Feb 06 21:14:34 <Ktsquare>	:)
Feb 06 21:14:46 <OhanaUnited>	sounds good
Feb 06 21:14:48 *	Alan_Ca sets mode +m #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 21:14:55 <Ktsquare>	smiling at this idea.
Feb 06 21:14:57 *	Alan_Ca removes channel operator status from Alan_Ca
Feb 06 21:15:11 <Alan_Ca>	Anyway
Feb 06 21:15:24 <Alan_Ca>	My goal here tonight is to decide how we should discuss this matter
Feb 06 21:15:30 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I know there are nonprofits that don't have formal "members", so there must be a way to specify it is up to the discretion of the board. In any case, we have to find out what the legal wording(s) can be, so discussing dollar amount is premature.
Feb 06 21:15:44 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR: Agreed
Feb 06 21:16:12 <Alan_Ca>	To be clear, so no one feels that the public is left out, we will be having public discussion on these issues
Feb 06 21:16:18 <Ktsquare>	I agree with HOTR here.
Feb 06 21:16:22 <OhanaUnited>	can we pick up the pace of this meeting? it's almost 9:30
Feb 06 21:16:40 <Alan_Ca>	Unfortunately we are down mitchell tonight
Feb 06 21:16:51 <Alan_Ca>	So we will have to discuss the agenda for the next meeting by listserv
Feb 06 21:17:00 <Alan_Ca>	In respect to the next meeting
Feb 06 21:17:10 <Alan_Ca>	I propose we make it two weeks from today
Feb 06 21:17:12 <wknight8111>	it may be worth deciding what portion of this steering committee represents a quorum, for meetings like this
Feb 06 21:17:21 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Personally, I'd like input on the bylaws from wknight8111 (as ChapCom), and I will review it against the boiler plate. Once that is done, I think the board should review it, make any changes and then send it to a lawyer.
Feb 06 21:17:35 <Alan_Ca>	Agreed HOTR
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Feb 06 21:17:55 <Alan_Ca>	ok
Feb 06 21:18:01 <Alan_Ca>	This channel is obviously not the place for these meetings
Feb 06 21:18:11 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: I agree, if we won't let anyone speak
Feb 06 21:18:14 <bastique>	It is if you want input from the Public
Feb 06 21:18:19 <Ktsquare>	It may seems premature to solely define involvement within WMC by the dollar sign, though financial backing is an important issue.
Feb 06 21:18:22 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	After which, we can have public input and set up a timeline for formation.
Feb 06 21:18:22 <bastique>	or any other entity, like the Foundation
Feb 06 21:18:34 <kibble>	even when at least 4 people wanted everyone to be allowed to speak
Feb 06 21:18:47 <Alan_Ca>	*sigh*
Feb 06 21:18:50 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: could you just request that people stay on topic?
Feb 06 21:18:53 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: I was here to offer my suggestions and insight
Feb 06 21:18:57 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR: Please email me with your contact information
Feb 06 21:18:58 <OhanaUnited>	don't we have the rule estbalished last time in steering committee meeting that only the last 15 mins are open to public for discussion?
Feb 06 21:18:59 <kibble>	people are going to be excited, this is a happy occasion :-D
Feb 06 21:19:11 <Alan_Ca>	First of all
Feb 06 21:19:12 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: I encouraged people to attend
Feb 06 21:19:15 <Alan_Ca>	I am chair of this meeting
Feb 06 21:19:24 <Alan_Ca>	The meeting is over time
Feb 06 21:19:38 <Alan_Ca>	This will not happen if there is not organized structure
Feb 06 21:19:40 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	OhanaUnited: We started late tonight, there was a big storm in Toronto (and other spots, I'm sure)
Feb 06 21:19:44 <Alan_Ca>	We do not have time for there to be hours of open discussion at every meeting
Feb 06 21:19:49 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: we have things to discuss
Feb 06 21:19:49 <Ktsquare>	yes, over time.
Feb 06 21:19:53 <kibble>	that is a good thing, is it not?
Feb 06 21:20:05 <Alan_Ca>	We are discussing administrative items
Feb 06 21:20:12 <Alan_Ca>	In terms of work for the committee
Feb 06 21:20:23 <Alan_Ca>	We don't need public input during some discussions
Feb 06 21:20:31 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: the thing is
Feb 06 21:20:37 <Alan_Ca>	The bottom line is
Feb 06 21:20:41 <kibble>	the steering committee is not that big a deal
Feb 06 21:20:46 <Alan_Ca>	If the chair cannot control the venue, the venue is not useful
Feb 06 21:20:57 <kibble>	it is just who is ultimately responsible for getting things done
Feb 06 21:21:04 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: please do not use "control"
Feb 06 21:21:10 <Alan_Ca>	Control is the key word
Feb 06 21:21:12 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: Do you want an inclusive organization or a small club of elitists. 
Feb 06 21:21:13 <kibble>	it has a dictatorial feeling
Feb 06 21:21:13 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca  we wasted time arguing with you when you were the only one in favour of a monolingual page. That was not part of the agenda yet you persisted in arguing it. If you want things to move ahead, LISTEN to the people here. They wouldn't be here if they weren't interested.
Feb 06 21:21:16 <wknight8111>	kibble, this is a legal enterprise, not a wiki
Feb 06 21:21:16 <Alan_Ca>	Control is required for direction
Feb 06 21:21:26 <wknight8111>	things need to progress a little differently
Feb 06 21:21:28 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: where is your main userpage?
Feb 06 21:21:28 <Alan_Ca>	The web page was part of the agenda Ayelie
Feb 06 21:21:33 <bastique>	wknight8111: I agree on that
Feb 06 21:21:43 <bastique>	But it won't progress at all if you persist in silencing people
Feb 06 21:21:44 <kibble>	wknight8111: yes, but we need to listen to each other
Feb 06 21:21:54 <StephaneThibault>	And WMF is designed to be bottom up, not top down...
Feb 06 21:22:07 <kibble>	we all understand that Alan wnats to get things done and the ball rolling
Feb 06 21:22:15 <Ayelie>	yes, but arguing about the language it should be in was uproductive when everyone except you suggested we try going bilingual. We just need to let things go smoothly and not try to micromanage and shut people up when there's no need :)
Feb 06 21:22:18 <kibble>	but if we want WMC to actually be *for* its members and its people
Feb 06 21:22:24 <kibble>	we need it to be made *by* its people
Feb 06 21:22:27 <bastique>	I'm not here to inflict the Foundation's rules on Wikimedia Canada, but I am here to offer advice
Feb 06 21:22:47 <bastique>	from a unique perspective.  I fully support the creation of this chapter.  It is long overdue.
Feb 06 21:23:04 <bastique>	But you have to involve people.  
Feb 06 21:23:05 *	HistoryOnTheRoad cheers for bastique :)
Feb 06 21:23:18 <bastique>	Or else it's not going to be supported in the long run
Feb 06 21:23:37 <Alan_Ca>	There is a reason this project has never succeeded
Feb 06 21:23:38 <Ktsquare>	please move on. If there is an issue, deal with it. Time is precious for everyone.
Feb 06 21:23:39 <StephaneThibault>	Bastique: Second that 
Feb 06 21:23:41 <Alan_Ca>	It is becoming apparent
Feb 06 21:24:17 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	There is a cultural thing here, for sure. WM projects are inclusive. Sometimes, it takes longer to get things done that way. But Wikipedia wasn't built in one day, either. :)
Feb 06 21:24:18 <bastique>	There are ways to maintain order without creating resentment.
Feb 06 21:24:40 <Alan_Ca>	A wiki and a charity are of different structure
Feb 06 21:24:53 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: I work for the Wikimedia Foundation.
Feb 06 21:24:59 <Alan_Ca>	I serve as a board member for the housing corporation in Hamilton
Feb 06 21:25:02 <bastique>	I'm perfectly aware of how things are structured.
Feb 06 21:25:13 <bastique>	Especially in this environment.
Feb 06 21:25:13 <Alan_Ca>	I can tell you, order in meetings is essential
Feb 06 21:25:14 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: True enough. But we aren't going to be an ordinary charity, either.
Feb 06 21:25:32 <Alan_Ca>	The way the charity chooses to conduct itself is a different issue
Feb 06 21:25:41 <Alan_Ca>	I am trying to lead a focussed group to complete a task
Feb 06 21:26:05 <Alan_Ca>	Almost anything decided in this formation process can be changed by the charity board that is elected by the members
Feb 06 21:26:21 *	bastique wishes delphine were here
Feb 06 21:26:27 *	kibble seconds that
Feb 06 21:26:35 <Alan_Ca>	bastique do you represent WMF?
Feb 06 21:26:43 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: he already said
Feb 06 21:26:50 <kibble>	that he was here to offer ideas and comments
Feb 06 21:26:53 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: In an advisory capacity only.
Feb 06 21:26:59 <Pathoschild>	Alan_Ca: He's the Volunteer Coordinator. :)
Feb 06 21:27:00 <Alan_Ca>	What does that mean?
Feb 06 21:27:05 <bastique>	The chapters committee is already represented
Feb 06 21:27:07 <kibble>	not to shove rules down our throaths ;-)
Feb 06 21:27:21 <Alan_Ca>	We have a chap comm member voiced in all discussions
Feb 06 21:27:28 <Alan_Ca>	Are you now saying we cannot count on his guidance?
Feb 06 21:27:37 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: That's not what I said.
Feb 06 21:27:44 <Alan_Ca>	Then why are you speaking about WMF?
Feb 06 21:27:52 <Alan_Ca>	As in .. even mentioning your affiliation?
Feb 06 21:28:00 <Alan_Ca>	WMF is represented by wknight
Feb 06 21:28:06 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I think he's trying to illustrate a point
Feb 06 21:28:07 <kibble>	not really
Feb 06 21:28:17 <bastique>	wknight8111 represents the chapters committee
Feb 06 21:28:21 *	kibble nods
Feb 06 21:28:22 *	Pathoschild wanders back to his regular activities.
Feb 06 21:28:22 <Alan_Ca>	of the WMF?
Feb 06 21:28:27 <kibble>	the chapters committee advises the board
Feb 06 21:28:32 <Alan_Ca>	Right
Feb 06 21:28:37 <kibble>	the chapters committee's approval would not create a chapter
Feb 06 21:28:37 <Alan_Ca>	As such he represents WMF
Feb 06 21:28:58 <wknight8111>	no sense wasting time fighting about this all
Feb 06 21:29:08 <Alan_Ca>	right
Feb 06 21:29:08 <kibble>	wknight8111: I disagree
Feb 06 21:29:09 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	But WMF, and really WikiMedia projects, tend to run in a more open manner then typical projects run.
Feb 06 21:29:17 <kibble>	why would we want to just pent up all these comments?
Feb 06 21:29:20 <Alan_Ca>	I'm sorry guys
Feb 06 21:29:21 <bastique>	Wikimedia chapters do 
Feb 06 21:29:23 <Alan_Ca>	I don't have time for this
Feb 06 21:29:25 <bastique>	as well
Feb 06 21:29:36 <Alan_Ca>	Maybe I need to reconsider who is interested in working with me here
Feb 06 21:30:11 <bastique>	You mean working for you or working to get WM-CA going
Feb 06 21:30:25 <StephaneThibault>	Can we please remember the bottom up approach?
Feb 06 21:30:29 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca are you suggesting you are going to go off on your own and find one or two people willing to follow your rule, because all of us interested parties disagree with your silencing non-voiced members in the channel?
Feb 06 21:30:39 <Alan_Ca>	Ayelie
Feb 06 21:30:41 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: You work for the committee, not the other way around.
Feb 06 21:30:44 <Alan_Ca>	This has been decided
Feb 06 21:30:53 <Alan_Ca>	We have had 2 previous meetings
Feb 06 21:31:03 <Alan_Ca>	If there is no process to this, then every meeting is a free for all
Feb 06 21:31:30 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: There is a middle road
Feb 06 21:31:45 <Alan_Ca>	Anyway
Feb 06 21:31:48 <Alan_Ca>	Goodnight everyone
Feb 06 21:32:10 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Um, did we set a date for the next meeting?
Feb 06 21:32:18 <kibble>	HistoryOnTheRoad: same time / date next week?
Feb 06 21:32:31 <Alan_Ca>	No, becaue we ended up diverging
Feb 06 21:32:38 <Alan_Ca>	So a simple thing like that was not discussed
Feb 06 21:32:46 <Ayelie>	Someone had requested on the mailinglist that we change it from Wednesday
Feb 06 21:32:48 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I think I heard two weeks hence ... but we can have one next week.
Feb 06 21:32:53 <tawker>	well, truth be told, it might make sense to put a lot of this as a wiki style
Feb 06 21:32:56 <tawker>	irc is a little crazy
Feb 06 21:33:02 <tawker>	essentially, do everything as a written resolution
Feb 06 21:33:11 *	Ohana ( has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 21:33:22 *	ChanServ gives voice to Ohana
Feb 06 21:33:25 <Pathoschild>	Maybe we should decide how to structure the meetings separately. Free-for-all doesn't work well, but speakers-only is clearly unpopular.
Feb 06 21:33:26 <Ohana>	wtf... how come my name hasn't gone off?
Feb 06 21:33:32 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	tawker: When we get to board status, I agree. We have a while left to get there.
Feb 06 21:33:53 <bastique>	I have had my say.  Alan, I hope you take what I've mentioned under advisement.
Feb 06 21:33:55 <Pathoschild>	Ohana: It's a ghost; try typing /msg nickserv ghost OhanaUnited password_goes_here
Feb 06 21:34:16 <Alan_Ca>	bastique, this meeting was a mess
Feb 06 21:34:17 *	OhanaUnited has quit (Nick collision from services.)
Feb 06 21:34:26 <Ohana>	ah, thx
Feb 06 21:34:31 *	Ohana is now known as OhanaUnited
Feb 06 21:34:31 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: but we got out a lot onto the table
Feb 06 21:34:37 <Alan_Ca>	I can tell you right now
Feb 06 21:34:37 <tawker>	in any case, I hate to skip out early... but I've gotta go catch a bus
Feb 06 21:34:38 <tawker>	ttyl
Feb 06 21:34:43 <Ktsquare>	btw how can I chat privately on IRC?
Feb 06 21:34:46 <kibble>	later tawker 
Feb 06 21:34:46 <Alan_Ca>	I'm not going to serve as your chair person if I cannot have order in the meetings
Feb 06 21:34:46 *	tawker has quit ("gotta get a bus")
Feb 06 21:34:50 <kibble>	Ktsquare: /msg NICK MSG
Feb 06 21:35:01 <Ktsquare>	later tawker
Feb 06 21:35:05 <kibble>	like /msg kibble you're awesome :-)
Feb 06 21:35:30 <Alan_Ca>	I do'nt know who undermined the meeting with their chanserv commands, but it has proven this channel is not going to work for board meetings
Feb 06 21:35:44 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: This was not advertised as a "board meeting
Feb 06 21:35:50 <Alan_Ca>	yes it was
Feb 06 21:36:01 <bastique>	Who should attend: The Steering Committee and anyone interested in helping form Wikimedia Canada.
Feb 06 21:36:19 <Alan_Ca>	Possibly it wasn't posted on the web page properly
Feb 06 21:36:28 <Alan_Ca>	That is why an agenda item was moving the web page forward
Feb 06 21:36:40 <Alan_Ca>	Ayelie, the discussion about language was essential, I'm glad we had it
Feb 06 21:36:46 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: This is why I encouraged people to participate.  
Feb 06 21:36:52 <bastique>	Because of how it was advertised.
Feb 06 21:36:54 <Alan_Ca>	bastique
Feb 06 21:37:03 <Alan_Ca>	I'm not going to debate semantics here
Feb 06 21:37:05 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca it was, I'm glad we came to a conclusion :)
Feb 06 21:37:34 <Alan_Ca>	bastique, you and I had private msg communication about the channel
Feb 06 21:37:41 <Alan_Ca>	I asked you to be patient
Feb 06 21:37:44 <OhanaUnited>	i think we better move on to another topic, cause we still ahve a couple of things left to discuss
Feb 06 21:37:51 <OhanaUnited>	for example: member-at-large
Feb 06 21:37:52 <Alan_Ca>	There is nothing to discuss
Feb 06 21:37:56 <Alan_Ca>	This venue does not work
Feb 06 21:38:06 *	Shanel has quit (Nick collision from services.)
Feb 06 21:38:07 <bastique>	It works for every other chapter
Feb 06 21:38:16 <kibble>	Alan_Ca: well... let's have a discussion, who wants +m and who wants -m?
Feb 06 21:38:27 <Alan_Ca>	Kibble
Feb 06 21:38:28 <StephaneThibault>	Please, I believe it does work too
Feb 06 21:38:34 <Alan_Ca>	We discussed this in the last meeting
Feb 06 21:38:42 <Alan_Ca>	There is no respect here for the previous work of this committee
Feb 06 21:38:57 *	Shannie (n=Shanel@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 21:39:09 <Alan_Ca>	The fact that someone undermined the planned meeting because they didn't like it tells me this cannot be the venue for the discussion
Feb 06 21:39:27 <StephaneThibault>	As this committee had no respect for the work done prior to it's formation?
Feb 06 21:39:34 <yanstheman>	Alan: are you suggesting changing venues to a different medium?
Feb 06 21:39:38 <Alan_Ca>	Stephane, the meeting was posted for two weeks
Feb 06 21:39:41 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: That is not a compromise
Feb 06 21:39:43 <Alan_Ca>	The first meeting
Feb 06 21:40:01 <Alan_Ca>	The goal of the advanced notice was to get the interested parties at the meeting
Feb 06 21:40:03 <OhanaUnited>	Stephane, it's not our fault that you couldn't attend
Feb 06 21:40:13 <OhanaUnited>	or that you didn't know
Feb 06 21:40:18 <StephaneThibault>	Yes but 2 weeks in two years... You can understand that it might be easy to miss...
Feb 06 21:40:30 <OhanaUnited>	so?
Feb 06 21:40:33 <Alan_Ca>	And that is why we set time to have public discussion at the end of the meeting
Feb 06 21:40:34 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	A different medium will make it harder for many Wikimedians to participate, and I'd be against that.
Feb 06 21:40:39 *	ChanServ gives voice to Shannie
Feb 06 21:40:47 <StephaneThibault>	Granted and I'm taking things as is, as long as we get them done
Feb 06 21:40:49 *	Shannie is now known as Shanel
Feb 06 21:40:57 <OhanaUnited>	i signed up on the list for like a long time ago, i understand a thing call WATCHLIST
Feb 06 21:41:07 <Alan_Ca>	Let's not fight about it Ohana
Feb 06 21:41:13 <Alan_Ca>	Ohana are you from Toronto?
Feb 06 21:41:27 <OhanaUnited>	richmond hill (north of toronto by 20 min drive)
Feb 06 21:41:27 *	Shanel (n=Shanel@wikimedia/Shanel) has left #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 21:41:29 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	OhanaUnited: Some people take wikibreaks too. This is all beside the point.
Feb 06 21:41:38 <Alan_Ca>	Ohana, we should meet in person
Feb 06 21:41:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	We're all here right now to get this started.
Feb 06 21:41:45 <Alan_Ca>	In fact, I think that is where I am going to take this
Feb 06 21:41:50 <OhanaUnited>	the point i want to state is that while stephane made some good suggestions
Feb 06 21:41:58 <OhanaUnited>	it's a bit disruptive
Feb 06 21:42:07 <StephaneThibault>	Understood
Feb 06 21:42:19 <Alan_Ca>	Who abused the chanserv?
Feb 06 21:42:20 <OhanaUnited>	that's my personal comment and does not represent any other parties
Feb 06 21:42:39 <Alan_Ca>	who set everyone to +v?
Feb 06 21:42:40 *	Shanel (n=Shanel@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 21:42:42 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Fighting about who did what and who didn't do what doesn't advance the goal. The goal is to get this thing started. 
Feb 06 21:42:43 <bastique>	OhanaUnited: You have to take them under consideration.  It would be highly regrettable if you all decided to hold physical meetings.
Feb 06 21:42:59 <OhanaUnited>	oh really?
Feb 06 21:43:01 <Ayelie>	a lot of people would be left out if physical meetings were decided on.
Feb 06 21:43:03 <OhanaUnited>	how so? WMHK done it
Feb 06 21:43:10 <bastique>	OhanaUnited: THat would include Everyone in Toronto
Feb 06 21:43:15 <bastique>	and nobody in the rest of Canada
Feb 06 21:43:15 <yanstheman>	HongKong is a much smaller place than Canada
Feb 06 21:43:16 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	WMHK is a different animal.
Feb 06 21:43:16 <OhanaUnited>	bastique, i also helped at WMHK formation
Feb 06 21:43:21 <Ayelie>	OhanaUnited Canada is a TAD larger than Hong Kong ;)
Feb 06 21:43:22 <OhanaUnited>	i know HK is smaller
Feb 06 21:43:26 *	OhanaUnited nods
Feb 06 21:43:47 <bastique>	physical meetings work in Hong Kong and Taiwan
Feb 06 21:43:49 <Ayelie>	we can't have someone from Vancouver and someone from Charlottetown both flying in to Toronto every Wednesday.
Feb 06 21:43:52 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	We have mulitple timezones and multiple languages. It's not really practical to do physical meets all the time.
Feb 06 21:43:55 <Alan_Ca>	You know
Feb 06 21:44:00 <Alan_Ca>	I think this is what I know to be irony
Feb 06 21:44:19 <Alan_Ca>	The very people who are best represented by this format are disrupting it
Feb 06 21:44:22 <OhanaUnited>	we really should need provincial or local chapters (in Canada's perspective)
Feb 06 21:44:33 <OhanaUnited>	but the problem is, we dont have a national chapter
Feb 06 21:44:41 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: Accusing people of disruption is not helpful either.
Feb 06 21:44:47 *	ChanServ gives voice to Shanel
Feb 06 21:45:06 <Alan_Ca>	bastique, you have been disruptive
Feb 06 21:45:16 <Alan_Ca>	Very helpful
Feb 06 21:45:28 <Alan_Ca>	whoever voiced everyone
Feb 06 21:45:30 <Alan_Ca>	Disruptive
Feb 06 21:45:48 <Alan_Ca>	Regardless
Feb 06 21:45:52 <yanstheman>	I think we need to stop looking for people to blame, and get constructive ideas on how to proceed now
Feb 06 21:45:56 <Alan_Ca>	Maybe things go smoother with Mitchell around
Feb 06 21:46:01 *	ChanServ removes voice from kibble
Feb 06 21:46:03 <Alan_Ca>	How to proceed?
Feb 06 21:46:08 <Ktsquare>	msg OhanaUnited may I know about the things you have helped at WMHK?
Feb 06 21:46:08 <Alan_Ca>	New venue
Feb 06 21:46:25 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Ktsquare: You need a "/" first
Feb 06 21:46:34 <OhanaUnited>	or double click my name
Feb 06 21:47:00 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: I think any sort of exclusive venue will be harmful to your formation.
Feb 06 21:47:03 <yanstheman>	Alan: are you mainly thinking of a physical meet up? or would you be open to other virtual mediums?
Feb 06 21:47:11 <Alan_Ca>	bastique, I think this venue, nothing will get done
Feb 06 21:47:18 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: I disagree
Feb 06 21:47:21 <bastique>	I think we can get past this
Feb 06 21:47:27 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	I think so too.
Feb 06 21:47:29 <bastique>	I will apologize for myself
Feb 06 21:47:42 <Alan_Ca>	I am not comfortable using this venue until I can speak directly with the person who undermined the meeting by voicing everyone
Feb 06 21:47:56 <Alan_Ca>	I am open to having this discussion by private msg
Feb 06 21:47:58 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: I will encourage that person to apologize to you privately.
Feb 06 21:48:04 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	This is probably the best spot for online meetings for WikiMedia type projects.
Feb 06 21:48:07 <OhanaUnited>	bastique, i personally think IRC is not a good place to discuss important things
Feb 06 21:48:10 <bastique>	I believe it was impulsive.
Feb 06 21:48:15 <OhanaUnited>	a lot of drama spinned off IRC
Feb 06 21:48:32 <Alan_Ca>	I received a private msg
Feb 06 21:48:33 <OhanaUnited>	that's why i restrained myself from participating in any IRC discussions until WMC
Feb 06 21:49:21 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Ok, let's try to get back to the Agenda?
Feb 06 21:49:30 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Are there any other items left to discuss?
Feb 06 21:49:43 <yanstheman>	Logo?
Feb 06 21:50:03 <OhanaUnited>	need to "officially" instate me as vice-chair?
Feb 06 21:50:11 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	yanstheman: I think the proposed logo is on our Meta page. Has everyone seen it?
Feb 06 21:50:22 <OhanaUnited>	it changed recently
Feb 06 21:50:53 <yanstheman> is the logo we are referring to
Feb 06 21:51:10 <yanstheman>	i'm guessing
Feb 06 21:51:15 <bastique>	It meets the full logo guidelines
Feb 06 21:51:25 <Ayelie>	that isn't more than the wikimedia logo with "canada" added ;)
Feb 06 21:51:29 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	yanstheman: Yes
Feb 06 21:51:35 <bastique>	I know.  You should have seen the other one. 
Feb 06 21:51:39 <Ayelie>	bastique  are there rules for the chapter logos?
Feb 06 21:51:51 <bastique>	Ayelie: For the Wikimedia logo usage
Feb 06 21:52:25 <wknight8111>	Yes there are rules for the logo, I would have to track down the link
Feb 06 21:52:33 <Ayelie>	I can come up with a bunch of suggestions before the next meeting, if they all suck we can stick with the current one ;)
Feb 06 21:52:50 <Alan_Ca>	fyi, I'm having private discussions regarding tonight's issue
Feb 06 21:52:59 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	It's been up for a few years now, looks very similar to the one that notafish put up.
Feb 06 21:53:05 <bastique>	We loved this, in the office.  Unfortunately, it can't be used:
Feb 06 21:53:36 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Ayelie: Could you post them on Meta, and send the mailing list a message for feedback?
Feb 06 21:53:38 <Ayelie>	bastique  I was going to suggest something similar but then I realised we can't butcher the foundation logo like that ;)
Feb 06 21:53:44 <Ayelie>	HistoryOnTheRoad certainly :)
Feb 06 21:54:12 <Ayelie>	they'll be svgs so we can rescale them easily. And I'll keep them clean and not use the existing foundation logo, I know you can't butcher it like that :D
Feb 06 21:54:22 <Ayelie>	(though that maple leaf idea did come to mind)
Feb 06 21:54:41 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	bastique: Can we have it in the background, or somewhere around?
Feb 06 21:54:51 <bastique>	HistoryOnTheRoad: Unfortunately, no
Feb 06 21:55:16 <yanstheman>	there is some guidelines here:
Feb 06 21:55:20 <Ayelie>	HistoryOnTheRoad I'll work something out so it's recogniseable that we're a chapter of WMF
Feb 06 21:55:24 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	:P We'll just keep it transparent and fly the Flag behind it ;)
Feb 06 21:55:47 <OhanaUnited>	*psst* this logo is a secret
Feb 06 21:55:55 <OhanaUnited>	lol
Feb 06 21:56:08 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Ayelie: Thanks.
Feb 06 21:56:16 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Any more on the logo issue?
Feb 06 21:56:19 <wknight8111>	Logo guidelines:
Feb 06 21:56:28 <wknight8111>	read those before you do anything about a logo
Feb 06 21:56:32 <Ayelie>	thank you yanstheman and wknight8111 
Feb 06 21:56:41 <Ayelie>	I've read it before when doing other stuff, I'm familiar with the terms :)
Feb 06 21:56:45 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	We'll review what Ayelie's come up with in the next meeting, and figure out what we want to start out with.
Feb 06 21:56:47 <yanstheman>	so Ayelie, are you going to work on the logo?
Feb 06 21:56:52 <Ayelie>	Yes.
Feb 06 21:56:53 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR
Feb 06 21:57:03 <Alan_Ca>	We are not conducting board business at this time
Feb 06 21:57:08 <Ayelie>	I'll have a few suggestions by next meeting, and will post them on the mailing list as well.
Feb 06 21:57:23 <Ayelie>	Suggestions/examples
Feb 06 21:57:32 <Ayelie>	changes can be made after input from people :)
Feb 06 21:58:09 <yanstheman>	so, i think that's everything on the agenda
Feb 06 21:58:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: While we were late to start, I'd like to get this moving so I can do some other stuff. Do feel free to comment.
Feb 06 21:58:56 <Alan_Ca>	HOTR, the main goal at this juncture is two fold
Feb 06 21:58:59 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Did we do the "Who are the Members-at-Large?" bit
Feb 06 21:59:02 *	bastique is now known as bastique|phone
Feb 06 21:59:07 <Alan_Ca>	1) The bylaws need to be conslidated, reviewed and commented on
Feb 06 21:59:18 <Alan_Ca>	2) We need to organize the steering committee
Feb 06 21:59:31 <yanstheman>	hotr: no, not yet
Feb 06 21:59:31 <Alan_Ca>	3) The meta page needs to be revamped
Feb 06 21:59:40 *	Ktsquare is now known as Ktsquare|time
Feb 06 21:59:49 <OhanaUnited>	and speaking of point #2, please "officially" instate me as vice-chair
Feb 06 21:59:53 <OhanaUnited>	since that was from last meeting
Feb 06 22:00:01 <Alan_Ca>	ah yes
Feb 06 22:00:18 <Ayelie>	HistoryOnTheRoad  I believe we sort of abstractly decided we would let all four people on the page be members, as Alan_Ca  said the more there are the less work for individuals, four members isn't the end of the world
Feb 06 22:00:25 <Ayelie>	but there was no official decision on that point
Feb 06 22:00:25 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I think we've dealt with 1 and 3; do they need action items for next meeting?
Feb 06 22:00:43 <Alan_Ca>	I want to make this clear
Feb 06 22:00:52 <Alan_Ca>	I want to have a meeting with only the steering committee
Feb 06 22:01:08 <Alan_Ca>	I would like to have it in public, in a moderated mode
Feb 06 22:01:10 *	HistoryOnTheRoad nominates OhanaUnited as Vice Chair
Feb 06 22:02:05 *	Ktsquare|time is now known as Ktsquare|TimeIsP
Feb 06 22:02:12 <Alan_Ca>	I need to touch base with Mitchell
Feb 06 22:02:14 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: I don't have chanops in this channel, but I think that is doable if needed.
Feb 06 22:02:19 *	Ktsquare|TimeIsP is now known as Ktsquare
Feb 06 22:02:29 <Alan_Ca>	So here is the summary
Feb 06 22:02:32 <Alan_Ca>	This meeting is closed
Feb 06 22:02:47 <Alan_Ca>	I'm proud of our discussions regarding language and direction for bylaws
Feb 06 22:02:55 <OhanaUnited>	wow, over time by so much -.-
Feb 06 22:03:00 <Alan_Ca>	The IRC issue has been resolved
Feb 06 22:03:14 <Ayelie>	Alan_Ca perhaps we should have two meetings a week? one for steering committee only and one for general discussion
Feb 06 22:03:26 <Ayelie>	or have a closed discussion every other week.
Feb 06 22:03:33 <Ktsquare>	Ohana, how can I discuss with you about issue from WMHK?
Feb 06 22:03:34 <StephaneThibault>	Thanks for the language discussion Alan and I apologize for my lack of familiarity with IRC meetings
Feb 06 22:03:39 <Alan_Ca>	Right now, my goal is to organize a steering committee
Feb 06 22:03:55 <Alan_Ca>	Public input is not as important right now
Feb 06 22:04:00 <Alan_Ca>	It's mainly janitorial tasks
Feb 06 22:04:02 <OhanaUnited>	privately, kt
Feb 06 22:04:07 <Alan_Ca>	Assigning work
Feb 06 22:04:10 <OhanaUnited>	double click my name and chat like normal
Feb 06 22:04:15 <Alan_Ca>	and organizing process
Feb 06 22:04:39 <Alan_Ca>	I would like to have a moderated, committee meeting for next wednesday
Feb 06 22:04:47 <Ktsquare>	Can you read my typing?
Feb 06 22:05:09 *	bastique|phone is now known as bastique
Feb 06 22:05:16 <Alan_Ca>	As soon as the page is organized there will be a posting on the listserv
Feb 06 22:05:45 <bastique>	Alan_Ca: How is this suggestion?
Feb 06 22:05:48 <bastique>	Every other meeting be public
Feb 06 22:05:52 <bastique>	advertise them as such
Feb 06 22:05:54 <OhanaUnited>	kt: nope, me and ayelie dont think u registered ur nick
Feb 06 22:05:59 <Alan_Ca>	Bastique, we cannot committ to a schedule like that at this time
Feb 06 22:06:08 <Alan_Ca>	Please be patient
Feb 06 22:06:17 *	ChanServ gives voice to kibble
Feb 06 22:06:31 <bastique>	I know, but if people know about a public meeting, then they won't complain so much about not being part of a private one
Feb 06 22:06:31 <kibble>	Ktsquare: they're right, you didn't register your nick
Feb 06 22:06:38 <Alan_Ca>	ok, I have to get out of here
Feb 06 22:06:39 <Alan_Ca>	it's late
Feb 06 22:06:43 <Alan_Ca>	So anyway
Feb 06 22:06:44 <kibble>	the reason you could talk to me is because you can always message me even if you're not registered :-)
Feb 06 22:06:48 *	kibble huggles Alan_Ca
Feb 06 22:06:49 <kibble>	bye
Feb 06 22:06:51 <Alan_Ca>	The next meeting will be next wednesday and private
Feb 06 22:06:58 <Alan_Ca>	in the sense... moderated
Feb 06 22:07:05 <Alan_Ca>	Anyone from the public can show up to observe
Feb 06 22:07:13 <Alan_Ca>	and private msg me your thoughts
Feb 06 22:07:16 *	bastique suggests you advertise an informal, non-public meeting for a week hence
Feb 06 22:07:29 <Ktsquare>	hold on alan
Feb 06 22:07:31 <Alan_Ca>	Bastique, we can figure that out next wednesday
Feb 06 22:07:35 <OhanaUnited>	make it clear, alan
Feb 06 22:07:43 <Alan_Ca>	Make what clear ohana?
Feb 06 22:07:45 *	ChanServ removes voice from kibble
Feb 06 22:07:45 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	Alan_Ca: Can we have a bit of time at the conclusion of the meeting for public discussion?
Feb 06 22:07:47 <OhanaUnited>	state it outright that it's steering committee meeting
Feb 06 22:07:52 <Alan_Ca>	of course
Feb 06 22:07:54 <Ayelie>	Private meeting on Wednesday, then? at 8pm EST?
Feb 06 22:07:56 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	It doesn't have to be a part of the formal meeting.
Feb 06 22:07:59 <Ktsquare>	Have we decided about who is going to be among steering committee
Feb 06 22:08:00 <bastique>	HistoryOnTheRoad: That would go without saying when the meeting is over :)
Feb 06 22:08:19 <Alan_Ca>	In fact, you konw what
Feb 06 22:08:21 <Alan_Ca>	Come early too
Feb 06 22:08:25 <Ktsquare>	I move to move the meeting away from Wednesday
Feb 06 22:08:29 <Alan_Ca>	But generally from 8 to 9 pm EST
Feb 06 22:08:34 <Alan_Ca>	I want to have moderated discussion
Feb 06 22:08:44 <Alan_Ca>	If at 9 we are not finished our committee business it may run on
Feb 06 22:08:50 <bastique>	okay, good night all. 
Feb 06 22:08:52 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	"Steering committee Meeting @ 8pm. Committee discussion only during this time, but public discussion (before? and) after
Feb 06 22:08:54 <Alan_Ca>	During the meeting, pvt message me if you have any thoughts
Feb 06 22:08:56 *	ChanServ sets mode -m #wikimedia-ca
Feb 06 22:09:00 <bastique>	night
Feb 06 22:09:05 *	ChanServ removes voice from Shanel OhanaUnited Pathoschild bastique
Feb 06 22:09:05 *	ChanServ removes voice from Monobi HistoryOnTheRoad yanstheman Alan_Ca
Feb 06 22:09:05 *	ChanServ removes voice from StephaneThibault wknight8111 Ayelie Ktsquare
Feb 06 22:09:05 *	ChanServ removes voice from Az1568 idealites
Feb 06 22:09:09 <Alan_Ca>	yes
Feb 06 22:09:11 <Alan_Ca>	night
Feb 06 22:09:11 <StephaneThibault>	Can I suggest alternating one week moderated, one week open discussion?
Feb 06 22:09:12 <kibble>	(meeting was over)
Feb 06 22:09:15 <Ayelie>	goodnight all!
Feb 06 22:09:18 <kibble>	night all!
Feb 06 22:09:26 <OhanaUnited>	i would say AFTER the meeting
Feb 06 22:09:29 <Ayelie>	StephaneThibault I suggested that earlier as well :)
Feb 06 22:09:46 <OhanaUnited>	what i meant is steering committee first, public discussion afterwards
Feb 06 22:09:52 <Alan_Ca>	Sure
Feb 06 22:09:58 <Alan_Ca>	PUblice discussion after the meeting
Feb 06 22:10:17 <OhanaUnited>	alan, i think u hav to post the log
Feb 06 22:10:24 <Alan_Ca>	I don't have a log
Feb 06 22:10:27 <OhanaUnited>	since i dc for no less than 5 times =.=
Feb 06 22:10:29 <Alan_Ca>	Mitchell was not here
Feb 06 22:10:40 <OhanaUnited>	and post the summary (because u received some private msg)
Feb 06 22:10:43 <wknight8111>	i'll see you guys next week. goodnight
Feb 06 22:10:45 *	wknight8111 is now known as wknight-away
Feb 06 22:10:45 <OhanaUnited>	i'll do the attendance
Feb 06 22:10:50 <OhanaUnited>	bye andrew
Feb 06 22:10:54 <Alan_Ca>	That's good enough ohana
Feb 06 22:11:07 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	StephaneThibault: Still here?
Feb 06 22:11:08 <Alan_Ca>	I ask that everyone is patient while we work out the kinks
Feb 06 22:11:08 *	OhanaUnited is now known as Ohana|washroom
Feb 06 22:11:15 <Ohana|washroom>	washroom, brb
Feb 06 22:11:22 <Alan_Ca>	anyway
Feb 06 22:11:24 <Alan_Ca>	goodnight all
Feb 06 22:11:33 <StephaneThibault>	Yep still here but trying to figure out private/public...
Feb 06 22:11:38 *	Pathoschild waves.
Feb 06 22:12:11 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	StephaneThibault: Did you register your nick?
Feb 06 22:12:19 *	HistoryOnTheRoad waves to all that are leaving
Feb 06 22:12:39 <yanstheman>	does anyone have a log? I can paste mine...
Feb 06 22:12:40 *	Alan_Ca has quit ()
Feb 06 22:12:56 <kibble>	yanstheman: it's okay, I think we're just doing a summary and attendance
Feb 06 22:13:01 <HistoryOnTheRoad>	yanstheman: Please do :)