Wikireference

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This page is a proposal for a new Wikimedia Foundation Sister Project.
Status Under discussion
Prompt Response
What is the proposed name for the project? Wikireference *
Proposed project tagline (if available) en: The free directory of references.

nl: De vrije referentiemap
pt: O diretório de referências livre.
es: El directorio de referencias libre.

Project description
What is the project purpose? What will be its scope? How would it benefit to be part of Wikimedia?
en: All Wikipedias need references. All articles need reliable references, sometimes refereces unrelated to current language. However, provide them has been a problem for many authors.

pt: Todas as Wikipédias necessitam de referências. Todos os artigos necessitam de referências fiáveis, por vezes não disponíveis na lingua corrente. Contudo, provê-las tem sido um problema para muitos autores.

How many wikis?
Will there be many language versions or just on one multilingual wiki?
en: Just one multilingual wiki.

pt: Apenas uma wiki multilingual.

es: Solo una wiki multilingüe

How many languages?
Is the project going to be in one language or in many?
en: The interface must be multilingual, configurable by user from his own preferences.

pt: A interface terá que ser multilingual, configurável às preferências do usuário

es: La interfaz deberá ser multilingüe, configurable por el usuario según sus propias preferencias.

Proposed project website address www.wikireference.org *
Proposed logo for the project (if available) en: I haven't chosen one yet!

pt: Não escolhi um ainda.

es: Aún no he escogido uno

Technical requirements
If the project requires any new features that the MediaWiki software currently doesn't have, please describe in detail. Are additional MediaWiki extensions needed for the project?
en: I think, the project will require new features that the MediaWiki software currently doesn't have. It will be like a "Commons" for reliable references. Like a database of a library about its contents. We will be able not only to search for references correlated to a given expression, but also use them in wikimedia projects. The interface (like we do with "Commons" content) will be standardized.

pt: Eu penso que o projeto irá requerer novas características que o software MediaWiki ainda não possui. Ele será algo parecido com o "commons" para referências fiáveis; algo como um banco de dados de uma biblioteca acerca de seu conteúdo. Poder-se-á não apenas pesquisar referências atreladas à uma expressão inserida, mas também usá-las nos projetos wikimedia. A interface (como ocorre com o conteudo no "Commons") será padronizada.

Development wiki
en: I don't know! Someone could help me?

pt: Não sei se já há algum projeto suporte para tal. Alguém poderia me ajudar?

es: No lo sé, ¿alguien podría ayudarme?

Interested Participants:
Lauro Chieza de Carvalho (talk) 19:55, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposal[edit]

en: I am proposing to build a database about references which could be used in any Wikimedia projects that requests reliable references. My native language is portuguese, so, I write on portuguese wikipedia. There, I face constantly two problems in my editions and consultations: to insert repeatedly the same reference in many articles; and find a lot of references, like online pages, that does not satisfy the needed criterias. Some users insist "blogs" are reliable references. Formatting of references is also a problem. The goal of project shall be, among others, to filter the reliable webpages able to correctly be used as references in wikimedia projects. Sites from recognized entities will be accepted, most will not. About books and periodics, ISBN and ISSN can be made compulsory for published documents, bringing reliability to registries. We can explore the international informations for catalogation (CIP) often present at prefaces of works. One can think also to make the project operates something like "Wikidata", but for translations of a works in one or more languages.

  • * Question: What is better: Wikireference or Wikireferences? One can also capitalize (uppercase): WikiReference(s).

pt: Estou propondo construir um banco de dados sobre referências que possa ser usado em qualquer dos projetos Wikimedia que requeira referências fiáveis. Minha língua materna é o português, e edito a Wikipédia nessa língua. Lá, tenho enfrentado constantemente dois problemas em minhas edições e consultas: inserir repetidamente a mesma referência em variados artigos; e encontrar um monte de referências, como páginas na internet, que não atende os critérios de fiabilidade exigidos. Alguns usuários insistem que "blogs" são referências fiáveis. A formatação das referências é também um problema. O objetivo do projeto será, entre outros, o de filtrar as páginas na rede capazes de corretamente serem usadas como referências nos projetos wikimédias. Páginas de entidades reconhecidas serão aceitas, a maioria, não. Quanto a livros e periódicos, ISBN e o ISSN podem ser feitos compulsórios, garantindo a credibilidade do registro. Podemos explorar as informações de catalogação internacional (CIP) usualmente encontradas nos prefácios das obras. Pode-se pensar em fazer o projeto também operar de forma similar ao "Wikidata", mas para as traduções de um trabalho em uma ou mais línguas.

(I beg pardon about my english. Be free to correct or improve it.)

Lauro Chieza de Carvalho (talk) 19:55, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Why do we need an extra project for this? We have already Wikidata as a database. Wikidata supports sources and has a system for storing information about references for works and editions. The informations from Wikidata can be included on every Wikipedia. --Pyfisch (talk) 07:36, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
  • I agree. We have Wikidata, Wikisource and in the Wikipedias there are supposed to be references though some articles have none, other a lot. I don't see much reason to collect them in a central place. If a majority agrees (so disagrees with Pyfish and me?) I suggest the name be just Wikiref (KISS).  Klaas|Z4␟V:  11:38, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
  • I agre too. All we need is to use Wikidata. Helder 18:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
    • would Wikidata allow to categorize references and make complex queries like "All refs on Subject X but not on Sub-subject XY and between 2005 and 2013 from author A"? If no, Wikireference is needed. --AS (talk) 06:06, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
I, too, would like to express my dissatisfaction with this idea. Wikidata provides the capacity for this. Furthermore, unless I am misunderstanding, this may produce a duplication of existing DOI, PMCID, PMID, ERIC, and other systems that are in place. While not all of these are free, DOI is, arguably, inexpensive and relatively comprehensive, and I am strongly opposed to fragmenting systems further, especially with the effort that would be required to implement this. --Jackson Peebles (talk) 02:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
  • One of the basic rationales for Wikidata was to do exactly this; if we did not have Wikidata, a database limited to this would be very desirable, but efforts to make one have been incorporated into the more general project, as they should. DGG (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Also unhappy with this - as Jackson Peebles says, we shouldn't be fragmenting systems - or information. The cost in money and time wouldn't be justified even if a parallel system was a bit cleverer. And - why is there this discussion section and below a new comment section? Dougweller (talk) 08:43, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
  • «Why not use Wikidata?» was my first thought as well.
    --Gryllida (talk) 07:32, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Comment[edit]

Ok! About reasons to collect references in a central place, you can argue we already have references in wikipedias articles - each one with its own (unpatrolled) references - so it is dispensable to have a central point to control them. Yes, it is not urgent; and exactly now the things are running without it, for sure. However, unlike inferred from first sight, it is not dispensable as a future project: it is a strategic point to be accomplished in near future in wikimedia projects; for reasons such as organization and reliability; as discussed before. And I do not need to remember, those are the Achilles' heel of Wikipedia; reliability and credibility. And it is also right to say, I am already personally feeling the absence of such a bank of references, nowadays.

About how to implement it, to be honest, I do not know the technical details. I didn't have until now any information about Wikidata already be able to execute such a function; so I didn't put Wikireference as derived from Wikidata in the proposal above. If there is no necessity to implement a new project to achieve the proposed goal; being possible to implement it directly in Wikidata, I would thank if someone could send me some guides or instruction material about how can I correctly insert references in Wikidata and how can I use them into reference sections ( <r e f> < / r e f > and { { R e f e r e nc e s } } ) on Wikipedia.

A good idea would be Visual Editor furnishes a box allowing us to choose - from ISBN, ISSN, or alike - the already inserted references on databank; doing the hard work automatically.

Thanks for attention.

Lauro Chieza de Carvalho (talk) 19:39, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Take a look at d:Wikidata:Books task force for examples of properties which are already being used on Books. Other properties can be proposed as needed. Helder 09:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

See also[edit]