Grants talk:PEG/Esperanto kaj Libera Scio/Projects 2015-2016

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GAC members who support this request[edit]

GAC members who oppose this request[edit]

  1. Sorry, but I am still confused with the bi-annual plan here and I still think that it's out of PEG scope. If I am wrong, I let AWang (WMF) to ignore part of my arguments here. I am also not impressed with the impact of the project: I do understand that there are not too many speakers, you have high engagement rate compared to speakers but the impact is still not clear for me while we are gonna to spend ~20 ths USD rubin16 (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

GAC members who abstain from voting/comment[edit]

GAC comments[edit]

I am confused about this program. The first remark is the period. Is this a bi-annual plan? Second point I don't understand so huge cost about gadgets. Do you consider to distribute all of them? Another point is the use of qrcode in some institutions, do you mean linked to the esperanto articles? In general I don't see a strategy, there is a participation to some events, some edit-a-thons but not a real strategy. --Ilario (talk) 12:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

  • I want to join the comments of Ilario above: it seems too expensive for me to pay 20 ths USD for 10 new editors in 2 years. What is budgeted into travel? Who will travel and where? Haven't you thought about more challenging targets? rubin16 (talk) 19:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I would also like to ping @AWang (WMF): is the project eligible? It seems to be longer than 12 months... rubin16 (talk) 19:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
(sorry for late responde, a little bit ill last days...)
  • Ilario: This is bi-annual plan for basic activities of our user group (+ additional competitions). The program is based on our previous work where big part is taking lectures, presentations and trainings. We have in consideration additional projects, but this should be the basic for now (speaks, trainings etc) and for future (informational and outreach materials). We want to distribute the outreach ("gadgets" in your text, if I understand well) and informational materials during the whole project time and after it - it is considerable better prizes for pressing more leaflets than less. Materials like pens or stickers should be provided for promotion during speaks and trainings; cups and textile bags for some active participants of trainings, for winners of small contest during seminars on the end of speaks or for partners.
  • For using QR codes we will use w:QRpedia, which provides text from Wikipedia in the language of the phone / tablet / device independently from originally linked language. The originally linked language is only implementation detail and will depend on agreement between us and the partners.
  • rubin16, about Measures of success: 10 new editors was defined as measurement only for the (main) competitions - cost of competitions is only 1 200 EUR. Also, we estimate that most participants of the competitions will be already registered editors, because Esperanto Wikipedia has high rate of editors per speakers. Unfortunately, because of nature of informational and outreach materials, it is hardly to estimate and measure quantitative criteria, like new editors or active editors after X mounts, for significant parts of this project. So such criteria was elected only for the competitions; another parts use another criteria.
  • Travel: You can read about our previous work for better image. Big diaspora is problem in Esperanto world - we need to travel, often abroad, to attend meeting to make presentation or training. There are several meetings in plan (mentioned explicitly in the proposal and measures of success), we are open for new proposals from our nowadays and new activists (it was mentioned even by TPS team member the possibility to motivate more people). Into travel is budgeted only real travel costs. --KuboF (talk) 00:06, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Please take care that the reporting phase may be really hard and can be a strong condition for further requests of financial support. I don't have big concern except the case that you seem to don't have a clear picture about your activities, and this may be the big enemy about the realization of your deliveries. --Ilario (talk) 10:43, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Do you mean, that reporting phase may by hard for this particular request or in general?
This is subset of our activities, the ones that we are going to do but we need funding. Only the competitions are a little bit out of basic scope of this project but we decided to include them because 1) Ispire Grants's stop of another grants requests and 2) too small amount requested for individual grant request. I think that the only one not absolutely clear part is "travel" - we already know some meetings that are to be participated but another ones are not sure. As we ask funding only for travel, the other costs we need to cover from our personal pocket; and you need to calculate another time and effort for such participations. There are some examples in the request but they are only basic scope by core project team members (which is Central Europe based). Let me know if there is still something unclear. --KuboF (talk) 17:15, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Merchandising[edit]

Hello KuboF,

I am interested in more detailed breakdown of merchandising (category "press" in your budget). Due to having long-time experiences with merchandising and its pricing, I am quite concerned by the amount of money presented in the budget. I am also quite concerned about the amount of leaflets suggested.

Please elaborate this area more thoroughly. At the moment, unfortunatelly, for me this would be a reason to discourage WMF to participate on it, because I am pretty sure these items can be handled cheaper (feel free to contact me to discuss the details).

Also (ping AWang or whoever responsible from WMF) maybe WMF can provide some parts of merchandising directly, did you ask them?

Kind regards

Danny B. 00:20, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Community comments[edit]

Tony1 comments[edit]

Hi KuboF. I support the enthusiasm of the Esperanto community. A few critical points:

  1. Nearly $20,000 for six months is rather a lot, and would be related to the conduct of quite a number of different programmatic activities. This is why the WMF is usually cautious about large grants and multifarious programs first time, without a proven track-record of management. Best to start much smaller, and build up if it turns out well in terms of value for money for the WMF's sites and the Wikimedia (Esperanto) community.
  2. I like the prizes, and the monetary rewards could even be a little higher. The focus on human use of translation tools is good, especially if it builds skills in your community.
  3. I don't understand the focus on Commons, which is not intrinsically to do with Esperanto; nor on other-language Wikipedias. And the QR would also not be exlusively for the Esperanto sites? I'd be more comfortable in terms of focus and value for money if your language were the exclusive, or almost exclusive, domain for this application.
  4. I'm concerned that "talks, presentations and trainings during various meetings"—meetings that will be very expensive to run—are not yet substantively planned, nor their likely specific impact described, nor the personnel who will be responsible named.
  5. Let's ensure that there's a clear boundary between the WMF's priorities for its language communities, and the international Esperanto movement as a whole.
  6. I share Ilario's concerns above, and Alex Wang's concerns about press and merchandise (6), and endorse her suggestion concerning online training and workshops—at least as a first step in dealing with the dispersion of your community. Single physical meetups are unlikely to have measurable impact on our priority targets, in the WMF's experience.

Thanks, and I look forward to seeing an alternative, more appropriately sized first application, while not at all wanting to discourage your good work. Tony (talk) 12:44, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

WMF comments[edit]

Hi KuboF. Thank you for this grant request and your engagement in the discussion thus far. We are happy to see the Esperanto community and Wikipedia continues to grow. We have a number of questions/comments on the request and look forward to your responses:

  1. Rubin16's concerns about the duration of this request are correct. Grant requests should not exceed 12 months. Please update the activities and budget based on a 12-month plan. After one year, we can assess the impact and consider additional funding. For more info you can read about the eligibility requirements.
  2. We are happy to support article contests -- translation contests, themed contests, etc.
  3. We are not certain about the large volume of general outreach. We are willing to experiment with supporting participation in the biggest opportunities, such as the World Congress of Esperanto and International Youth Congress of Esperanto. These major events will certainly have a larger percentage of the target audience -- committed Esperanto speakers who want to support knowledge creation and consumption in Esperanto. Please significantly cut down the travel budget to these events.
  4. We are also happy to support editing workshops, but understand the challenging fact that the Esperanto-speaking community is very dispersed. Have you considered online trainings/workshops? Wikimedia Argentina has some experience with virtual trainings and may be a good resource for advice.
  5. We're happy to hear you have developed promising relationships with GLAM institutions focused on Esperanto. Can you please provide more detailed measures of success for these partnerships? Do you have a sense of how much content can/will be freed through these partnerships? If these GLAM's are excited about working with Wikimedia and want to invest in a QRpedia project, that's great, but we do not consider this a priority project. We are more concerned with content release and integration on wiki. Hosting editing workshops in partnership with these institutions is a great way to integrate newly released content on the projects.
  6. The amount of press and merchandise is very high. Printed materials should be used for targeted outreach and workshops. In general, we don't support general leaflets about the projects. This information can easily be found online. A leaflet about the user group, your strategy, activities, and contact is useful, as is printing the How-to-edit Wikipedia brochure for workshops. Based on the updated number of outreach events and workshops, please make adjustments to this line item. In terms of merchandise, stickers/buttons are ok for outreach events, while t-shirts or larger items should be reserved as rewards for the best participants in workshops or active volunteers. Please update the numbers.

Please let us know if you have questions about the above. Cheers, Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 00:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

(for record) Thanks for your comment, we are discussing changes internaly and publish them in near future. --KuboF (talk) 07:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)