Grants talk:PEG/WM UA/Wiki Loves Earth

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This is a project that looks worthy of support. However, I've quite a few comments and queries.

I want to start with two issues in the application form.

  • First, I had to hunt down what "UA" means ... I'm still guessing, but it's increasingly evident as your read through that it is the Ukrainian chapter. The form doesn't even ask for this information, but does ask whether it's an organisation. Um ....
    erm... there was that issue, but it seemed that all 'legal' details were included into our previous grant applications and we had all the category Category:Grants:WM UA to ourselves --アンタナナ 06:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    Not much good to GAC members who are reading this application. Tony (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    i am sorry. would it be better like this? [1] --アンタナナ 15:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Second, it says "We have already negotiated with the partners about strong media support and the main prizes" without first explaining that you have a partner in the first place, and who it is. I'm still wondering.
    there was a question:
    Are there additional sources of revenue that will fund any part of this project? List them here.
    and we did the listing there:
    Charitable donations by partners (Vadym Stolar, KPMG-Ukraine, Prosvita, Fashion House Rito and others)[1] --アンタナナ 06:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    OK, I'm wondering who/what they are, and who "and others" is. How much are they giving? Is it in cash or in kind? I feel I shouldn't have to drag this information out. Tony (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    some are giving cash (so the prizes are to be bought), some in kind (we've mentioned it in the submission (books (Prosvita is providing), vyshyvanka from Fashion House Rito) and there is a list of prizes we do have below. the 'etc' is updated page here. at the moment of the grant request submission only the listed ones were sure of the support they would provide us with. the rest was less certain (they joined only AFTER the contest have started) --アンタナナ 15:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    vadym stolar is a benefactor, KPMG-Ukraine is an audit company, en:Prosvita is an organization that was founded for preserving and developing Ukrainian culture and education among population. i've explained about SanomaMedia[2] and RegioNews[3] below, Fashion House Rito is a fashion house[4], National Ecological Centre of Ukraine (NECU) is a non-governmental not-for-profit organization, IBCentre (Innovative Business Centre) is a research and consulting organization, National Society of Photo Artists of Ukraine (NSPAU) is a photo artists' organisation and has centers in every region of Ukraine[5], National Society of Regional Ethnographers of Ukraine is a regional ethnographers' organisation[5] --アンタナナ 15:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Further queries:

  • How will you promote participants, and how will you promote attendance at the prize-giving awards? How many of each category would you be pleased with?
    winning prizes as means to drive them to participate and to contribute. to reach the participants that are willing to share (or can be made willing to share) we are using a sitenotice asking to contribute (it goes like this Wiki Loves Earth: Photograph a natural monument, help Wikipedia and win!), and we have been spreading the info about the contest - press-conferences[6], press-releases, social networks (facebook, vkontakte), Ukrainian wikinews. we are going to held the Awards Ceremony on World Environment Day on June 5, 2013, prize-winners will be invited, jury, our partners and media. up to 40 people we are expecting to be present there --アンタナナ 06:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    Excellent. Getting more Ukrainian-speakers involved on a longer-term basis would be great. Tony (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Any chance of a press release or engagement with journalists in Ukraine upon the announcement of winners?
    yes, there is. RegioNews (Ukrainian Information Agency) is one of our partners and also SanomaMedia (one of the leading publishing houses in Ukraine, they are publishing National Geographic Ukraine[7]) --アンタナナ 06:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I wouldn't mind seeing the actual prize money at this stage; surely that is an important motivational factor for participants, so presumably you'll work it out soon for promotional purposes (?).
    at the moment we do have:
    e-books Wexler Book T7008W Black;
    universal solar powered mobile phones and electronic gadgets rechargers from Іbcentre;
    National Geographic Ukraine subscriptions;
    vyshyvanka from Fashion House Rito;
    books from 'Prosvita';
    sweets from Konfael.
    we want the main prizes to be a photo camera, tablet PC. but it will depends on whether our grant request is funded --アンタナナ 06:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    OK, I'd assumed prizes would be monetary. Tony (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Measures of success:

Rather than just "number of participants", will you consider defining that more closely? Number of photographers whose work is uploaded to Commons? And rather than "number of newly registered editors", perhaps "number of these photographers whose work is uploaded to Commons for the first time"?

  • "number of participants" → "number of photographers whose work is uploaded to Commons" is okay (that's what we had in mind). "number of these photographers whose work is uploaded to Commons for the first time" (aka "number of newly registered editors") is a bit too descriptive. they are to be registered to be able to upload. if they are uploading for the first time, they are "newly registered editors", aren't they? --アンタナナ 06:49, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

What does "number of publications" mean?

"Number of newly illustrated articles about the natural heritage sites". This is a bit ambiguous: do you mean the number of newly created articles that deal with sites for which a photograph is submitted in the competition (mostly on the Ukrainian Wikipedia, I guess ... it would be nice to know in terms of likely impact)? Or the number of newly used photographs in existing and new articles (which might be a better guide of impact, since some existing articles lack a photograph).

  • the number of newly used photographs in existing and new articles --アンタナナ 06:49, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Always stronger to give the GAC numbers that would please you if attained or exceeded ... more solid application then, and we can judge the report better. May I suggest a prize for the best contribution to documentation and categorisation on Commons up to time of the judgement decisions?

  • yes, you may. we are going to have small giveaways for all volunteers that helped. why not to thank the most fruitful one in working behind the curtain? thus we are to discuss it, i believe --アンタナナ 06:49, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    Cool. Tony (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Who will judge the photographs? Will there be a short-list?
    our jury consists of scientists (ecologists and regional ethnographists), wikipedians and professional photographers. and yes, we are going to have a short-list --アンタナナ 06:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Will the chapter organise volunteers and/or staff to create adequate description pages for at least the short-list, and to categorise as many of the photographs as possible, within, say, a month or two? That would be a great service to the movement and beyond.
    we are working on this, we have files with wrong IDs to correct, this category with known IDs will be used to add categories to the files still lacking them (it will be done by bots, we believe) --アンタナナ 06:49, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    Your experiences will be important for us to learn from in the report. Tony (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Will the competition page provide basic advice for photographers about documentation, article use, and some tips on how to take good photographs? [The last one would be a first, I know ... but we're still waiting for Wiki Loves Monuments to work out how to reduce the high proportion of garbage that's uploaded every October.]
    yeah, it does provide all the basic info for photographers, WLE uploader was developed, to help with files description pages --アンタナナ 06:49, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • As an aside: Tell us about Ukrainian Wikipedia—when there's time, it would be great to see more information there in the interests of "lessons learned" by the rest of the Wikimedia movement, and understanding your proposed project! For example, does the WP have a featured picture process?
    oh, a lovely page. we'll try ;) --アンタナナ 06:49, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Tony (talk) 13:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC) ---

  1. Here is the link to the page with our partners
  2. National Geographic subscription AND (we hope) publishing the results of the contest in July issue
  3. media coverage, the first press-conference was held at their place for free
  4. here's the link to their new collection Rito Fashion House presents its Ukrainian-style collection
  5. a b taking part as jury members
  6. on the 30th of January and the 10th of April
  7. just in case: Sanoma Media Ukraine to Launch Local-Language Edition of National Geographic Magazine in April (in English)

No Comments[edit]

I've no comments, It works for me, the only thing I would like to see is a column that shows the amounts 'valued' but not charged to the project, because is hard to mentally discount them. Despiste that, it's ok for me. --3BRBS (talk) 13:52, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

thanks. d'you mean like this?
Number Category Item description Unit Number of units Cost per unit Total cost WMF contribution Other sources Currency Notes
1 Main Prizes TBD (to be determined) [1] Per (main) nomination / per place 4.00[2] 300.00 1200.00 600.00 600.00 USD A half of this budget line will be provided by partners
2 Hall Rent Hall Rent for the Awards Ceremony Per hour 3.00 50.00 150.00 150.00 USD
3 Food & Beverages Stand-up party Per person 40.00 7.50 300.00 300.00 USD We are going to buy snacks (products) ourselves (it will be cheaper this way, as most firms charge for serving additionally)
4 Travel and post expenses Two way train/bus tickets or post expenses Per person 10.00 20.00 200.00 200.00 USD This money will be used to compensate prizewinners and jury members travel expenses (or post expenses)
5 Additional Prizes & Awards Souvenirs (cactus, cups etc.), the finishing touches are to be put to the contest logo[3] Per person 25.00 10.00 250.00 250.00 USD We shall hand them out as "green certificates"
6 Publishing Postcards and Wall calendars with the best pictures from the contest Per postcard set (10 pictures each) /
per wall calendar (with 12 pages) /
per wall calendar (a poster)
100.00 /
50.00 /
50.00
0.84 /
5.25 /
0.63
84.00 /
262.50 /
31.50
378.00 USD We are going to print them out on the recycled paper
7 Bank fees and exchange gain/loss Exchange fees, Bank Account fees and exchange gain/loss Per project 1.00 37.50 37.50 37.50 USD
8 http://wle.org.ua website support Domain name registration and website hosting Per year 5.00 20.00 100.00 80.00 20.00 USD The current year was funded by volunteers
9 Technical support List conversion computer program and uploading tools development Per hour 40.00 5.00[4] 200.00 200.00 USD It was done on a volunteer basis by Ilya
Total 2815.50 1995.50 820.00 USD
--アンタナナ 07:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

  1. We believe that it will be a photo camera, tablet PC, books (Prosvita is providing), vyshyvanka from Fashion House Rito etc.
  2. Pretty much the same as WLM ones: 1) the authors of the best pictures (top 10); 2) the authors that took pictures of the largest number of different objects (10 as well); 3) the authors of the best pictures of the region (27 at the most); 4) the users that uploaded the most pictures. It[the number of nominations] will greatly depend on quantity and quality of the works submitted. And on the prizes the partners will donate.
  3. The logo used was just a trial one and done on a volunteer basis, but as there was no other drawn, we have decided to keep it for the time being, but it needs to be redrawn if we are to use it for printing.
  4. The average net salary of a junior software engineer in Kyiv was USD 800.00 (December 2012). Thus we have approximately USD 5 per hour. There are also taxes to be calculated, but it shall complicate estimating greatly, as if this junior software engineer is a private entrepreneur, 5% are only to be added, and if s(he) is not - approximately USD 85.00 are to be paid as taxes additionally.

I've no comments, too. I find this request moderate and adequate; I hope it will be only the first year of this competition. --Packa (talk) 17:54, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Exactly, thanks a lot! It's way much easier to understand now :)--3BRBS (talk) 15:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Some comments[edit]

Thanks for the submission. I have to admit that the idea is great and the project seems to be very well conceived. My only questions are the following:

  1. What are the criteria to consider something an eligible object to take photographs from? Do you use only the list of natural heritage or the participants will be free to choose whatever they wish to photograph?
    the basic info for photographers provides them with the main guidelines (better to take picture of some rare plants that are growing only in the given botanic garden, than take picture(s) of some beautiful stones there). we have prepared the lists of natural heritage for the participants to choose from. there is an uploader for the contest (WLE uploader) and the participants are supposed to find the object in the list, copy its ID and to insert this ID while uploading file(s) with the help of WLE uploader --アンタナナ 16:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  2. Can you provide some realistic estimations about the number of photographs taken, illustrations and publications provided?
    we had a really successful WLM 2012 contest in Ukraine (648 participants have uploaded 33 177 files), thus, proportionally, we have estimated that 7000-8000 files would be uploaded, and at least 200 participants will take part. at this moment we have a bit over 5000 files uploaded and already 255 participants. it seems we can expect up to 10 000 files uploaded. there are a lot of new users, thus there are some wrong IDs and out-of-scope files uploaded, but we are going (at least i am) to write to these users and ask them (warm and nice, of course) to take part in the contest seriously (as there is still some time) or maybe contribute to the projects in some other way (writing articles, f.ex.). as for the publications in media - we expect the results will be published at least in the same sources (thus around 20-30 publications are granted) --アンタナナ 16:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  3. Do you have any notion of whether similar Wikimedia-driven projects are organised anywhere else in the world? This seems to be a really good starting point to develop a new global project.
    there are wikiprojects that can be starting points for doing the contest worlwide: cs:Wikipedie:WikiProjekt Chráněná území[1][2], en:Wikipedia:WikiProject_Protected_areas, it:Progetto:Aree_protette, de:Portal:Umwelt-_und_Naturschutz/Projekt, pl:Wikiprojekt:Ochrona_przyrody, fr:Projet:Conservation_de_la_nature, ro:Proiect:Rezervații_naturale --アンタナナ 16:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

thank you --アンタナナ 16:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your answers. Now I think this should be funded.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:38, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  1. I support this application as well. Polimerek (talk) 22:42, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  2. In case it's unclear at the top, I support it. Tony (talk) 07:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)