Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Northern Thai

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main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Northern Thai
submitted verification final decision
Applications-system.svg This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code nod (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Northern Thai Language name in English
Language name คำเมือง / ᨣᩴᩤᨾᩮᩥᩬᨦ Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q565110 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Northern Thai
  • native label (P1705) = ᨣᩴᩤᨾᩮᩥᩬᨦ
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = Tai languages /
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) = nod
  • writing system (P282) = Tai Tham alphabet, Thai alphabet
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 6,000,000, 6,029,500


Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name Wikipedia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Asia/Bangkok "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)


Arguments in favour[edit]

support Conservation is the home language--Sahayfont 02:49, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

support Like you sahayfont--Kammuang 06:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

support if use Lanna alphabet,it's too good.--Muanglanna 15:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

support Parintar (talk) 12:18, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Support from wikipedia thai Wikipedia language in thai. Sponsored:

1. mahatee

2. น้องท่าเหนือ(Nongtanae)

--Kammuang 02:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

support: However, Northern Thai is a tonal language, hence the uniqueness of the language can only be fully portrayed when the Tai Tham script is used. --Jose77 00:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

support However, we must first agree on which script to use: Tai Tham or Thai script. If we agree on using Thai script, I argue that we must use it as a transliteration of Tai Tham script. In other words, we should not use the Thai script to phonetically write Northern Thai. The Lanna-ists call sometimes this type of Thai script rup pariwat (รูปปริวรรต). The Thai transliteration of Tai Tham will preserve sound distinctions, including tonal distinctions, which otherwise would be lost if Northern Thai was phonetically transcribed with Thai script.--Alifshinobi (talk) 08:29, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I have changed my mind on the usage of just one script. I had not known that using two scripts was possible until looking at Serbian and Hakka Wikipedias in which two scripts are used. I now argue that both scripts must be used: Thai and Tai Tham. However, the Thai script must be a transliteration of Tai Tham.--Alifshinobi (talk) 08:58, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Support However I agree using Thai Tham Script. Now we can use it. --SARANPHONG YIMKLAN (talk) 16:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Arguments against[edit]

Other discussion[edit]

  • Due to ISO 639-3, the code of this language must be "nod". "nth" is not a valid code. (The code can be also "th-nod" like Chinese variants.) So I changed the code from "nth" to "nod". --Octahedron80 12:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I think if the requester would like to create the new language, it's a better idea to find the Native speaker of Northern Thai language to sign here as well to get attention from the Language committee, to make sure that the project is eligible for the requirement of the new language creation, and to show that there will be a contributors in the Wikipedia if this language has been created. The discussion at Thai Wikipedia might not enough for decision of the committee. --Harley Hartwell 14:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I think if they build language north thai wikipedia. Nui language be careful as his hometown. Because now Chiang Mai people who speak this language gradually lost as I thought She filed a request to create this language wikipedia so I support it because the article except help create a new language Conservation is also a language she hometown Therefore I support--Sahayfont 02:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
You can support for any reason, but there are something you need to finish to pass the requirement. The localization (Wikipedia interface) need to be translated to the Northern Thai Language. Some test page at Incubator can also prove the contributions before the Wikipedia can be established. Keep in mind in both of this task to make sure your project can be established. --Harley Hartwell 14:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
According to the page history, the {{Ls-header}} has been set to {{ls-header|eligible}} when created the page. However, it has not yet been verified by the Language committee that this wikipedia is eligible. I changed the {{ls-header}} to {{ls-header|open}}, to follow the correct instructions provided in the Language committee/Handbook (requesters) --Harley Hartwell 14:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Script used?[edit]

Will the Tai Tham script be used ? Thanks, GerardM 14:12, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Both scripts should be used. Lanna is not so widely used, while it is the part of cultural heritage. Thai script is more often used. We should think about conversion engine. --Millosh 00:54, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
I have just seen that Serbian Wikipedia, Hakka Wikipedia, and some other ones use two scripts. I had not known that this was possible. I now argue that both Tai Tham and Thai scripts should be used.--Alifshinobi (talk) 08:42, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to switch between writing systems in a Wikipedia? [[ping|Octahedron80] added a literal transliteration capability (Lanna script to Thai script), and I've built on it to provide one that puts the transliterated characters in the right order, using Wp/nod/xlit2. There are still a number of loose ends, and conversion cannot be completely automatic - some conversion mark-up is needed. However, appending a transliteration is not the same as having multiple writing systems - one can only edit the part in the original script, rather than working on a transliterated section.

At the current level of functionality, we also need to work on the reverse capability (Thai script to Lanna script).--RichardW57 (talk) 23:45, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

I think Tai Tham script should be used. Northern Thai has its own letter. The main problem of Thai alphabets for Lanna language is the incorrect tone. This should be solved by using Lanna or Tai Tham or what do you think?--Phenkawin (talk) 15:03, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I support to use Tai Tham script. --SARANPHONG YIMKLAN (talk) 12:08, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Locales[edit]

We need to support 2 or 3 locales. At a minimum we need:

nod-Lana: Lanna script. nod-Thai: Thai script, effectively a transliteration of the Lanna script, though with some reversibility issues - contracted forms transliterate the same as the contracted forms.

Actually, I think we need at least three locales - we need Thai script 'transliteration' (e.g. คำเมือง), and Thai script 'transcription' (e.g. กำเมือง). I think the latter system will have wider appeal, much as we may wish it didn't. (For one thing, transliterating to it is harder work, and back-transliteration will need mark-up to resolve the ambiguities.) I've started discussions on creating en:BCP 47 variants for the two systems. Are there Northern Thai or Thai names to distinguish the two? --RichardW57 (talk) 23:45, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

I've started populated the user interface messages - only to find that we had only one locale set up at translatewiki.net! --RichardW57 (talk) 21:59, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Localisation update[edit]

This Language has been used in the North of Thailand, Myanmar, Lao and China. It should be great if we have the wiki on Northern Thai Language--Phenkawin (talk) 14:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)