Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Standard Zazaki 2

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Standard Zazaki Wikipedia[edit]

submitted verification final decision
This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

Zazaki is a macrolanguage with existing wikipedias in both of its daughter languages (although one still in incubator). --MF-W 21:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Proposal summary
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Keskin, Mesut. (2008) "Zur dialektalen Gliederung des Zazaki" Der Johann-Wolfgang-von-Goethe-Universität [1]
Paul, Ludwig. (1998) "The Position of Zazaki Among West Iranian languages" University of Hamburg,[2].
Paul, Ludwig. (1998) "Zazaki: Grammatik und Versuch einer Dialektologie" Georg August-Universität (Göttingen) [3]
Selcan, Zülfü. (1998) "Grammatik der Zaza-Sprache" Technische Universität Berlin, [4]
Lynn Todd, Terry. (1985) "A Grammar of Dimili" University of Michigan,[5].
Gippert, Jost. (1996) "Historical Development of Zazaki" Frankfurt University,[6].
Gajewski, Jon. (2003) "Evidentiality in Zazaki" Massachusetts Institute of Technology,[7].
Larson, Richard. and Yamakido, Hiroko. (2006) "Zazaki as Double Case-Marking" Stony Brook University and University of Arizona,[8].

Arguments in favour[edit]

  • Support : Developed by the Zazaki Institute[1] throughout years of research, taking into account all Zazaki dialects. This standardized Zazaki language is indispensable as the language of science and is very important for understanding among all Zazas. Standard Zazaki is a standardized written form of Zazaki as developed by the Zazaki Institute based on the common ground of all dialects. The Zazaki Institute is seated in Germany. The standard form is already written in diq .wikipedia and will be applied in the Zazaish periodical Miraz. The alphabet which Zazaki Institute uses is established since 1992 and acknowledged by many other periodicals, too. Until the early 90ies were all minority languages in Turkey officially banned, including the Zazaish language. Since the Zazas yet also don’t have their own television, the language heritage was orally transmitted. Albeit later by folk songs and some magazines the native language was more widespread, but it is not enough. Therefore the Internet offers a good opportunity to fill this gap. --Mirzali 23:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - I support wholeheartedly the wikipedia project for Standarized Zazaki language. --Erdemaslancan 11:45, 30 October 2011(UTC)
  • Support - I support wholeheartedly the wikipedia project for Standarized Zazaki language. --Zazabewran 11:23, 31 October 2011(UTC)
  • Support - I support it. In today's time no language can conserve itself without a standard writing. The Zazaki-Institute Frankfurt has created a common phonetic and grammer with the analaysing of Zazakis etymology (it was using 32 scientic sources, like Paul Horn, Cheung etc.). No region was preferred, it collected the most original variants of all regions.

As example, there are these variants for the word "tongue" in Zazaki: zıwan, zıwen, zıwon, jüan, jian, zan, zon, zun

Zazaki Institute has decided that "zıwan" is the most original version of the word and has taken it to the standard. --Omed Veşnosıpê 11:46, 1 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Arguments against[edit]

  • Oppose - If this project is accepted, it will be third wikipedia which is controlled by Mirzali. Same person creates what he wants. He is not linguist. Why should we support? There is no user (just Mirzali) even in diq: project. Because, it works as Mirzali's kingdom. I can speak zazaki but i cant contribute there. He can block us when he wants, as he did in the past. Btw, this proposal was rejected before. I dont believe that, this project will help zazaki language. it will be same as diq:

and kiu: projects.--Gomada (talk) 14:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

General discussion[edit]

Someone who allegedly speaks Zazaki, has so many contributes (See here!). A Kurd (Gomada) who claims, that he can't contribute because of my alleged hindrance. Isn't that ridiculous? However, he is an active contributor in the Kurdish Wikipedia (See here!). Isn't that funny! It is obvious that he is only bluffing. I myself am not a dictator. Because many people can't speak, write and read Zazaki well, they just blame me out of jealousy, that I stand up so eager for my mother tongue. Someone who would be good in Zazaki, why should I prevent him from contributing? On the contrary, I'm happy and I appreciate every good review. All other arguments against me are far fetched and are polemical, political disputes. Zazaki is an independent language and not a so-called Kurdish dialect. -- Mirzali (talk) 15:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You wanna see something funny? You have blocked me just for 3 contributions. Here is the proof. I will not contribute until you use correct Zazaki Alphabet. All zaza authors and linguists use that alphabet. But, Mirzali tries to divide zaza people and use some turkified alphabet. Why i should support your work? You are so funny that, you deny your people's reality. If you are a better zaza than Malmisanij, J. Îhsan Espar or Munzur Çem, then prove it! You will tell that, they betray to Zazaism? :) --Gomada (talk) 18:11, 1 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Someone who denies my ethnic identity and devalues my native language as a dialect, I can not take those seriously. The supposedly scientific evidence has been growing on your political crap. This includes the people you mentioned. Zazas are a separate ethnic group and Zazaki is an independent language, with its own dialects, vocabulary, grammar and alphabet. Everything else is just pushing politically, that's all behind it. The dream is of a large Kurdistan, so they want to count us Zazas also belong to it. I am talking here primarily about the language and culture rather than political debate. So everybody should mind his own business, instead of misleading the public with false statements. --Mirzali (talk) 00:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Funny old man (: You should answer to questions instead of imposing your own ideas. ;) By the way, there is a sentence at Zazas article. Almost all speakers of the Zaza language consider themselves as Kurds and they are often counted as such by international statistics and surveys as part of the Kurdish people. i think, thats enough. There is no need to waste my time with you.--Gomada (talk) 10:32, 10 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment: zza is a macrolanguage code. I do not see the purpose of creating a wiki with a macrolanguage code for two reasons. One, who would be the native speakers of this new "dialect" which according to comments here "had been developed" making it a semi-artificial language; two, its sub-dialects have wikis. I am aware that when the current zazaki wiki (diq) was proposed it was to have the language code zza instead of diq, but in the current state of the wikis I do not believe a rename of diq to zza would be helpful as kiu is growing in incubator and may split to be it's own wiki in the not so distant future. -- とある白い猫 chi? 15:42, 29 October 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment: As long as I know, Zazaki Wikipedia was started as a "mixed dialects" (Dimli, Kırmancki, etc.) project, and users had wanted zza code. However, in fact, diq code was provided. Today, most of all articles in Zazaki Wikipedia are written in "Standard" Zazaki. So I think that the Dimli Wikipedia (real diq) can be created for Dimli speakers. Wikimedia doesn't need another Standard Zazaki Wikipedia. I recommend the proposers to propose to change the code of diq.wikipedia to zza.wikipedia. It's much more realistic solution. By the way, articles of Wikipedias are not identifying reliable sources. Unfortunately the article Zaza people in English Wikipedia is not neutral. That article was written by some users who are under the influence of Kurdish nationalism. In fact, Kurdish speakers cannot understand Zazaki language without intentional study. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 16:53, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Its funny that, Takabeg joins each topic about Kurds and he always talks as he knows the best. I think, its better that you interested in Turkish wikipedia. You cant even speak Kurmanji or Zazaki. What are you talking about? You always try to prove/support your own ideas with Kurdish nationlism. You should be happy that, there is Kurdish nationlaism (: Thats all you can prove? Thats so miserable. You and Mirzali claim that im Kurdish nationalist and you say, Kurmanji speakers cant understand Zazaki. I have never had Kurmanji or Zazaki study in my life. But, im waiting for you, write what you want in Zazaki here and i will translate for you and Mirzali can check it. Oh yes, sorry i forgot, You cant even speak Zazaki :D Then why do you waste our time? and why do you think that you know our problems better than us? Btw, I wrote above the Zaza linguists and authors. If Mirzali thinks, he is a better Zaza than those people. He should say. Mirzali is the only person in Zazaki wikipedia, he cant decide for all Zazas.--Gomada (talk) 15:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Here we don't discuss whether User:Gomada is a Kurdish nationalist or not. As we known, the assimilationist propaganda of Kurdish nationalists' and the Kurdistan Workers' Party denies the existence of Zaza people. It's an adaptation of the assimilationist policy of the Turkish government in the 20th century. Unfortunately not only User:Gomada but also most of all users at the Kurdish Wikipedia are also under the influence of the Kurdish nationalism. For example ku:Kategorî:Şehîd (interwiki of en:Category:Martyrs) is one of the evidences to prove that the Kurdish Wikipedia is under the influence of the Kurdish nationalism and the Kurdistan Workers' Party. And we can understand their Kurdish ethnocentric approach to the Zaza people when we know the fact that ku:Kategorî:Zaza was deleted without good reason at the Kurdish Wikipedia. Anyway we have to discuss that whether the Wikipedia Standard Zazaki should be created or not, Dimli Wikipedia is necessary or not. Takabeg (talk) 06:49, 29 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You say that, we dont discuss whether User:Gomada is natonalist or not. But your all message is about nationalism. You really dont know what you should do. what a pity! People can check all of your work, just based on Kurdish nationalism. You could be a politician. But we dont need politicians in Wikipedia ;) And you started to attack all Kurdish users. That is really miserable! I dont need to waste my time with you. Thats my last message for you. ku:Kategorî:Zaza is deleted by a half kurmanj and half zaza user. As i said, you dont know us, but you try to decide for us. Thats annoying. If we create such a category, we should create categories of Soran, Kurmanj, Goran etc. But all of them are ethnic Kurds. So, we dont need to confuse people. Btw, there are not categories of Kurmanj, Soran, Goran etc in any wikipedia. Dont waste our time! As i said, you could be helpful for Turkish wikipedia.--Gomada (talk) 02:44, 31 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See also[edit]