Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Surzhyk 2

Surzhyk Wikipedia

submitted	verification	final decision

	This proposal has been rejected. This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page. The closing committee member provided the following comment: No ISO-639 code

Proposal summary
Language details: w:Surzhyk (суржик, surzh, uk-surzh (based on ISO 639-1 plus unofficial variant code conforming to RFC 4646 syntax)) Editing community: Mikolasz (NP), Dmitry Nikitin, Riwnodennyk List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language. Relevant pages: development wiki project, Old request Wikipedia article: cs, en, de, eo, fr, ko, hr, nl, pl, ru, ru-sib, sr, sh, fi, uk External links: surzhyk.org.ua
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Support

(N) It's my native language. Mikolasz 20:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Mikolasz[reply]
It's a native language of my ancestors from Southern Russia. I want to see it on Wikipedia and i will write in Wikipedia on this langugage --Dmitry Nikitin 20:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Southern Russia" or Ukraine? Who are you? Do you origin from a Surzhyk nation? :) --91.124.184.39 21:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you are expected at least to tell who YOU are when asking questions like this :) Indeed, there is no Surzhyk nation, but there is an official Ukrainian language, which is rarely spoken by the majority of population, and the Surzhyk, widely spoken in East and North Ukraine. My vote is 'yes', but I would really insist on using a different name than the rather derogative 'Surzhyk' — e.g. 'East Ukrainian' or 'Slobozhan Ukrainian'… or maybe 'Living' or 'Spoken Ukrainian'??? — Lozman 23:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What are these people descendants from and how many people do speak this language? Darko Maksimović (Serb) 82.117.192.154 18:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

[1] --Riwnodennyk 01:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)--195.189.47.11 01:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

imho every language has the right to exist. if someone thinks it exists, therefore it exists :) --Riwnodennyk 01:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Es haet vielen Seiten. Ich kann sie nicht allen counten. Deutschlehrer 14:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Oppose It is not a language, it is an ignorant jargon based on the mechanical mixture of two languages - Ukrainian and Russian. This is a product of Ukraine russification in the twentieth century.--Leonst 14:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. Surzhyk has no established rules, it is a simple mixture. E.g. the same frase "What are you telling me? Surzhyk is not a language!" can be said as follows

"Та шо ви мені тут гаваріте? Суржик – эта не мова!"

and as follows

"Та шо ви мнє здєсь кажете? Суржик – це не язик!"

Both variants are in Surzhyk, but in the first one 6-th and 8-th words are Russian (bold), 4-th, 5-th and 10-th - Ukrainian (italic), while in the second variant - vice versa. Don Alessandro 16:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose until there's more substantial proof that the language has a real community of speakers and until there's at least one true, published grammar book (sorry, not a WikiBook). As much as i'd like to see Slavic dialects flourish and develop, the Siberian fiasco must not be repeated. --Amir E. Aharoni 22:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It is not a language, it is a type of communication between people who can't speek correctly nither ukrainian nor russian. --A1 20:40, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree that this is not a language or even a dialect, as it does not have a stable form, a requirement for a language, the words and grammatical rules used vary from person to person. It can eventually develop into a creole language, but that has not happened yet and will not happen any time soon. The "language" is somewhat similar to "Spanglish", "Portunhol", and other similar mixtures that frequently emerge in the areas with mixed population.--Oleksii0 21:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

General discussion

The following comment was added by User:81.200.20.92 to Talk:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Surzhyk on 17 Oct. 2007, 11:34:

Очень интересно найти Википедию на суржике. Однако возникает ряд вопросов: кто это дело начал и кто его продолжает? Какими правилами пользуется пишущий, если у суржика нет никакой грамматики, если он у каждого человека свой? И по каким критериям проводится правка текстов? Кстати, русско-суржиковый словарь почему-то не отражает всего лексического многообразия, имеющегося в текстах статей... а грамматические таблицы как-то уж больно похожи на те, что в учебниках по украинскому языку, что опять же не находит своего отражения в самих текстах. Уважаемые составители, чем вы руководствуетесь при правке и дополнении энциклопедии на суржике? Очень интересно, и хотелось бы увидеть продолжение...