Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Upper Saxon German

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main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Upper Saxon German
submitted verification final decision
Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved.

  • Check that the project does not already exist (see list).
  • Obtain an ISO 639 code
  • Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki.
  • Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code sxu (SILGlottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Upper Saxon German Language name in English
Language name Säggsch Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q699284 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Upper Saxon German
  • native label (P1705) =
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = language, modern language / Thuringian-Upper Saxon dialect group
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) =
  • writing system (P282) = Latin script
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 2,000,000
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name Wiggipedscha "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Europe/Chemnitz "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)


Proposal[edit]

One of the most important German sublanguages with >2 million speakers, it has such a unique writing style and pronunciation, that speakers of usual High German (Hochdeutsch) are not able to understand. Many many books, children books, dictionaries, versions of other books, and Upper Saxon German-only books having been and still are being published. It is a living language with more speakers than many other Wikipedias, which already have their languages represented. --Tecumseh*1301 (talk) 16:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

w:en:Upper Saxon German says

The literary theorist Johann Christoph Gottsched (1700–1766), who spent most of his adult life in Leipzig, considered Saxony's upper-class speech as the guiding form of standard German. When Johann Christoph Adelung (1732–1806) published his High German dictionary (Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch der hochdeutschen Mundart), he made clear that "High German"—to him—meant the parlance of educated Upper Saxons.

and

According to linguist Beat Siebenhaar, Upper Saxon dialect—defined as a cohesive linguistic system with its own, clear rules for pronunciation, word formation and syntax—became largely extinct during the second half of the 19th to early 20th century. Since then, (Upper) Saxon merely refers to a colloquial, regional variety of Standard German and not a dialect in the proper sense."

There is an incubator project: [1]. It has nine pages, most with one editor, and two edits by one editor in the last month. I suspect it will just sit permanently in the "we don't have to come to a decision on an inactive project" pile instead of anyone deciding on the linguistic issues.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

There does not need to be a discussion about that. ISO 639-3 defines the code "sxu" as a living language; therefore it can only refer to the current dialect. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 07:00, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
ISO 639-3 also defines the code "cnr" (Montenegrin) as a living language, which hasn't stopped discussions about whether it's distinct enough for a Wikipedia. I'm not going to fight sxu, but it certainly seems questionable.--Prosfilaes (talk) 08:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I think it's a general movement of local language to become more similar to the Dachsprache. The degree of conservatism is up to the local community. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 06:44, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
There are books constantly being published in sxu (200+ on German Amazon alone) like „Säk'sche Glassiger“ by Lene Voigt, Asterix and even The Simpsons Comic strip Adaptions, Goethes Faust and of course, old fairy tales. It very much is a living language and it will keep existing for a long time. I live in the region and I'm more than happy to help improve the language's Wikipedia when it is being created. Wikipedia + sxu = my pastime. --Tecumseh*1301 (talk) 20:55, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
Also, the status about Montenegrin is complex than this topic, and hence doesn't related to this at all. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:20, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Like I wrote, there are constantly books being published in Upper Saxon German and many old and young people speak it. In written form it is so far off High German like its equivalents Bavarian and its likes which already have existing Wikipedias.

So, when will the discussion get to the next step, that SXU is going to be verified as eligible? --Tecumseh*1301 (talk) 20:20, 19 April 2021 (UTC)