Talk:H.J.saga

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Response to Derek Ross H.J.Saga:

  • At Wikipedia the inmates are in charge of the asylum
  • GK (talk • contribs) leaving on 14 January 2005 with a note: "It took me way too long to realize the underlying facts about the way the Wikipedia works. In this libertarian anarchy, any process is only as functional as it's most dysfunctional participant. What that means is that in too many areas the inmates are in charge of the asylum."
  • Taw defacing article: 'I give up. Taw is willing to deface the page forever to support his view that the name of the city in 1944 was "Gdansk" even though the rulers called it something different. How he thinks this is NPOV is a mystery to me. GregLindahl

City was Gdansk up to 1939, when it was conquered by Nazis. --Taw

Proposal: $history_of_city =~ s/Gdansk|Danzig/the city/g --Taw

Taw -- i don't get the script, so I can't comment on that. But to an English speaker, the city wasn't Gdansk up till 1939. When we read English language history books dealing with that particular city up till 1945, they most often call the city Danzig. It doesn't mean anything as to who the city belonged to -- Most English speakers don't know or care (in the sense that they don't say to themselves "Danzig -- must be German"). Could you just quit for a while and maybe listen to people who know what they're talking about (i.e., native speakers with an education). This is not about Prussia/Poland -- it's about what title works best in an English language encyclopedia.

  • Taw's lie-calling attack [1]
  • Halibutt on using Polish name for German cities in Dresden discussion: [2]

Sca on Flaws and Kpalion on Communist Propaganda in Wikipedia:

  • I have debated at length with one of our Polish editors regarding the Polish view of city names in the context of the territorial changes and population expulsions of 1945. In the end one must conclude that Polish people of whatever political stripe tend to be acutely myopic on this issue. To argue that the city was not generally known by its German name for all the centuries it was inhabited (primarily) by Germans, simply because it was founded by Poles (or perhaps, West Slavs) a millenium ago, and because the Poles always have referred to it by its Polish name or some variant thereof, does not strike them as illogical, even though it does not correspond to historical reality. This seems to be the case even though, of course, they may be in general very congenial people in other ways.

I believe the English version of this article should be edited by neither Poles nor Germans, but by native English speakers with a strong background in the relevant historical periods. Failing that, I advise anyone who is interested in this topic to study the history books, not Wikipedia. Wiki is a noble experiment in the marketplace of ideas, but one which is intrinsically flawed by the absence of qualified, disinterested gatekeepers.

User:sca 24nov04'

'It's not myopia, I think. It's decades of Communist propaganda trying to justify the post-war border changes. Remember, according to the Commies, East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia were ancient Slavic, Piast lands, which were brutally occupied by those fascist Germans obsessed with their Drang nach Osten, and which were finally recovered and rejoined with the Motherland, for the sake of historical justice. I'm not trying to defend those of my compatriots who don't want to be taught anything else than they've been already taught at school, but it might be good if others try to understand why some Poles don't want to hear about Gdańsk or Wrocław ever being German cities. --Kpalion 01:49, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)'


Thanks Aphaia

from user talk:Aphaia

Request to Aphaia[edit]

Dear Aphaia, please take a look at H_J_saga&oldid=178033 and Response on Derek Ross talk. Derek Ross (and you) mistakenly started the full names article. Witkacy =[3] (seems to be Caius2ga plus others) has picked this up (see Witkacy /talk 'H.Boska' and multiply slandered H.J., who had stopped submitting to wikipedia a long time ago. 67.. changed all the 83.. #, who Wikacy had connected to full H.J. name and where he posted this Meta Wiki article( see histories).(Please look up the urls, the 83.. people, who are trying to revert Witkacies vandalisms are nowhere near California. Yet he posts them all as vandals on his page (see edit) and claims that they are H.J. (in his older version and on different talk pages. H.J. is the only version authorized by Jimbo Wales. 67.. changed the Meta article to H.J., posted the response to Derek after emailing JWales, but he is on a trip and Derek is gone since June. Therefore the request to you, please change the title of the article and the category from full names to initials. Thank You from 67.. Calif.

Hello Calif, thank you for your message. I was first surprised and wondered if such article could be allowed here, even if it was not on the exact project H.J. was banned from. Your information helps me to understand that situation. Just now I moved it and ... ah by accident deleted all revisions including yours ... I can't figure what happened. It was possibly from my carelessness. Or not. A Mediawiki bug perhaps. Or not. Please let me explain:
  • Fisrt I tried to move the article to H.J.saga. Then the server was very slow, and I got "sorry- we have a problem", so I used the browser "back" botton and tried to move it again. But the page was moved --- only it didn't appear on my browser, and I failed to find it in my second trial and "made a way to move" in the second move. It appeared .. because I am here an admin.
  • Then I got a self-redirect from H.J.sage to H.J.saga. In history there were 11 deleted revisions. I tried to undelete them. I made my second mistake perhaps then. The latest revision was my moving:
The page H.J.saga has been successfully restored. See meta:Deletion_log for a record of recent deletions and restorations.(The [[Hxxxx Jxxxx saga]] moved to [[H.J.saga]]). Prausibly I should have leave this revision and only should restore the rest 10 revisions. But then I tried to undelete all 11 revisions ... As a result I got a message
The page H.J.saga has been successfully restored. See meta:Deletion_log for a record of recent deletions and :*:restorations.
  • But none of them were restored. I got a self-redirect. And all. Still there is a message on its history "View or restore 11 deleted edits?" But they can't be accessed now. Instead of deleted revisions, now I get a message "There is no edit history for this page.". On deletion log, there is a message
20:28, 19 July 2005 Aphaia restored "H.J.saga" (11 revisions restored)
I found right now the version you had linked on my talk has been alive, and put it again as the current version. Other revisions can't be seen even as "older version" from diff. Thank you for giving a link. And sorry for deletion of your edits from history. --Aphaia++ 20:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Derek Ross, Elian and other anon editors for deletion your contribs from history. I make apologies to you all. --Aphaia++ 20:55, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's okay, Aphaia. These things happen. -- Derek Ross 20:34, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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