Talk:Teyora

Query

Hello Ed6767! I'm interested in Teyora, and had a query: is Teyora available for use? If so, how can I access it/request access? JavaHurricane 05:57, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi @JavaHurricane, it's currently in development and isn't functional at the moment, but development is highly active and ongoing - I'll keep this page updated with further information :) Ed6767 (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Browser AWB

Two similar tools are JWB and Bandersnatch. Qwerfjkl (talk) 19:17, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Language

Hello! So I was reading through the page and I noticed that it will start out with only being in "British English". May I ask why British English specifically and not English in general? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 13:19, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Blaze Wolf, everyone who speaks English speaks a dialect of English that whilst English may contain small differences like "colour" instead of "color". I'm British and speak British English, so write in British English. Ed6767 (talk) 20:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I understand that. I Just found it a bit odd you specified "British English" when it shouldn't make that big of a difference. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 12:47, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Teyora Workspaces

I am curious as to what settings you could apply to a workspace in the future, e.g filtering tagged edits or similar. I do really like RedWarn and the concept of Teyora and am looking forward to it. Kind regards, Zippybonzo (talk) 19:28, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Zippybonzo, workspaces can contain all configuration including different extensions and preferences like filters, feeds, watchlists, etc. You can set overrides for your current user, say if you prefer a setting and would like it to apply for all workspaces for your user too. It's easier to show in a demo than explain it in words so keep an eye on all development update videos coming :) Ed6767 (talk) 16:04, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Teyora Development

Given that you have a somewhat working prototype, I was wondering how far into development Teyora is, also, a suggestion on rights within Teyora is that it might be a good idea to give PCR auto-confirmation on Teyora as the right requires a similar amount of trust. Zippybonzo | talk

Hi Zippybonzo, Teyora is about a quarter way done but will probably not be ready for the public for another four to six months as it is a hobby project done in my own time. Regarding auto confirmation for PCR, as auto confirmation has to work on all Wikis so I think it'd be definitely something worth manual confirmation but not something I could implement automatically. Ed6767 (talk) 16:11, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Why not host it on github? Fizz fam (talk) 06:48, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

The foundation provide hosting on Wikimedia Toolforge, it is a lot better than GitHub as it runs on the same servers that Wikimedia projects run on. Zippybonzo (talk) 16:05, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

@Fizz fam, Teyora is hosted on GitLab, mainly for seemless migration to the WMF GitLab when it is ready. See https://gitlab.com/t5201/teyora. As for the actual service hosting, this is done with Wikimedia cloud services for privacy and expense reasons. Ed6767 (talk) 16:19, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Browser anti vandalism

Hi, I found User:Ingenuity/AntiVandal as an interesting enwiki userscript, for anti-vandalism. Qwerfjkl (talk) 12:18, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Inline-tag tool; wheat and chaff

TL;DR: Any chance of task T209797?

Proportion of good-faith new editors (as manually assessed by experienced editors) who are reverted using a tool.

Editors who get personal criticism/assistance, like having their edits inline-tagged or corrected, are more likely to stay (the editors learn and fix their own edits). Reverting, unsurprisingly, makes both vandals and potential new editors give up.

Hi, Ed6767. Thank you for doing all this work, and for being so encouraging of feedback. I have a request for a slightly strange feature I've not yet seen in a patrol tool. I don't know what Tayora will be like, and whether it would be sanely possible to include this sort of functionality, so apologies if my comments are unwittingly ill-considered and tangential.

There is demand for a tool that can make adding our inline cleanup tags as easy as reverting. Logically, tagging could be faster than writing a custom edit summary for a good-faith-edit revert or rollback (UI concepts at task T209797).

New editors are more likely to stick around if their work is inline-tagged and (constructively) criticized; they take it positively, and learn competence faster. They are much less likely to stick around if reverted, and specifically if all of their first edit session is reverted. Pinging Petrb and Enterprisey, devs interested in this functionality.

On a personal note, I'm really bad at making quick decisions about the value of an edit. Much as I value the work of counter-vandalism patrollers, I'm no good at it. I am good at perspective-taking, and copyediting poorly-written text; I somehow find it far easier to answer "How could this be improved?" than "Is this an improvement?". To have the best chance of prompting a topic-knowledgable but wikiclueless newcomer into becoming a competent editor, I need to act quickly, ideally during their first editing session. So I think an inline-tag-capable tool could be useful to me in a way that the patrol tools I've tried aren't. HLHJ (talk) 18:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi @HLHJ, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. This is totally something that I'm interested in, but I don't think it's something that'd be built in to Teyora as I have to keep in mind that each wiki has its own needs and don't want to put too much into Teyora's base unless it's necessary.

That being said, one thing that I kept in mind when redesigning Teyora from its original RedWarn base is that I want to add extensions that are not only as easy to write as user scripts but that can be called or implemented at any part of Teyora that they may be needed. For example, if you've used RedWarn you'd know that alongside having the options to rollback, you also have other options, and I think allowing extensions to add things there could be ideal in a situation like this. We already have a thriving user script ecosystem on enwiki that I would like to see implemented in Teyora and some of its features, and I think this is absolutely a case where an extension (installed from a free marketplace) would be great, and as there's demand for it and I'd need to get a few extensions going for default workspaces, like counter vandalism on enwiki that I'd like to see this in.

I think another great thing is that all your changes, extensions, watchlists and configs are grouped into "workspaces", which should make Teyora super flexible as in many ways you're given a clean slate that you build your workflow up from. Then, you can share these workspaces with your community, or invite people to them privately. So, if an enwiki counter vandalism workspace had an extension with this feature I think it'd be a big help, and stop people from just going straight to rollback, and also might be something to consider for users who haven't been rollback approved yet. Ed6767 (talk) 23:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Ed6767! This functionality would have to be at least somewhat wiki-specific, as inline templates are wiki-specific, so putting it in an extension makes a great deal of sense. I don't recall if RedWarn is one of the tools I tried; it was some years back, so might not have existed yet. I should probably have poked about in it before posting. Is Teyora going for the degree of backwards-compatibility that would allow it to run lightly-modified RedWarn scripts, or is this a too-soon feature req? I hadn't thought of the no-rollback prob, but that's a good point. HLHJ (talk) 16:17, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

@HLHJ, RedWarn doesn't have any scripts, but as for user scripts in general, I can try to provide an interface similar to the "mw" one that a lot of user scripts do use, but it'd be a big ask given everything would have to be sent through the Teyora API because of how the security works. If a script needed to do anything privileged like edit or block people, MediaWiki needs a token which in Teyora is encrypted and inaccessible to the client (to stop malicious scripts stealing your token and taking over your account). I'll try making converting scripts as easy as possible, but honestly I think that Teyora is so fundamentally different writing good documentation and building the new ecosystem from there is probably the way to go. Ed6767 (talk) 23:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you were saying that RedWarn had extensions also; I misunderstood. I wasn't trying to suggest converting mw userscripts to Teyora extensions, I was blithering about converting non-existent RedWarn extension to Teyora extensions. Teyora sounds as though it will be a sort of Swiss army knife of semi-automated editing tools, something you can build out of modular sub-tools to taste. I'll keep an eye on progress, read the future documentation on however Tayora extensions wind up working, and then figure out how it relates to my admittedly odd usecase. I am obviously far too ignorant to have a useful opinion on these design decisions, but I trust your experience and judgement. Best of luck with Teyora, and thank you for taking the time to explain it to me! HLHJ (talk) 02:46, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

References

Development update

Hi all, thanks for baring with. Teyora is still in active development! Pages are being loaded now, tabs work, and fingers crossed things will soon start to take shape for a public alpha :)

This is arguably the most complex project I've ever worked on and have already written thousands of lines of code, so I appreciate your patience. Ed6767 (talk) 16:55, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Development Update - November 2022

Hello all,

Teyora is still in active development! However, I have been extremely time constrained at the moment due to a change in personal circumstances (starting my own business) so am in the process of building websites, processes, policies, paperwork etc. I've also been spending this time improving my skillset so I can utilise better techniques in my project.

I am looking forward to return to work on Teyora soon. In the past year there has been considerable progress made towards the project and I am happy that a working project will be available soon. I will let you know when there's a new development update video.

- Ed Ed6767 (talk) 00:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

What’s happening now?

At the moment, all work on Teyora is paused. The main reason for this is that there is simply too much bloat and feature creep, and it was easier to return to the drawing board. That’s what I’ve done with OOZE. This takes many concepts and features from Teyora but makes them more simple and modular. The concepts and design of the Teyora project is likely to be reused in some places but at the moment developing a replacement to RedWarn and Twinkle is much more satisfying. If you have any questions, ideas or concerns, let me know. Ed6767 (talk) 20:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)