Talk:Wikimania 2013 bids/Manila

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Me and Sky Harbor discussed this bid at Wikimania 2011, and so I am doing some follow-up reading. This would be a good country to host Wikimania the year after having it in Washington DC given how distant the two places are from each other and the desire to move Wikimania around each year.

I was surprised by the flight cost quoted. For example it claims that a return flight to Manila via Doha from London with Qatar Airways will cost $1,124. Yet according to the Wikimania 2011 flights page, a return flight from London to Washington DC will cost $1,153 with Delta, and from what I have looked at this is about right for most airlines. These prices are almost identical, despite the Washington flight being about a third of the distance compared to the Manila flight. Why is this? CT Cooper · talk 22:49, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

(Yes, this is my aviation fanboy self talking, so excuse me if I begin dabbling in aviation jargon. :P)
The reason why tickets are so cheap is a major reason why the Philippines is considered to be a low-yielding destination for airlines. A lot of the people who fly to Europe from the Philippines (and vice-versa) are either married to Europeans, are overseas Filipino workers (usually seamen working on European cruise ships, domestic helpers and caregivers), or are European tourists. There's not a lot of business traffic to Europe from the Philippines, which of course is what makes a route profitable to begin with (a business class cabin full of paid passengers means that the route is high-yielding enough to sustain the route even with lots of passengers taking on discounted economy fares). Consequently, the airlines have to tailor their ticket prices to match the market otherwise they lose market share: Filipinos, like the Thais, Vietnamese and Indonesians, are usually on the lookout for the cheapest tickets when flying long-haul, and so the airlines provide that to them, hoping to offset losses made by those people via bookings in business and first class. I'm not sure this is the case for the cash-rich Gulf airlines, but it is for a lot of others, and it's a reason why so many European airlines (British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France and Swiss are some of them) have pulled out of the Philippines in the last 10-15 years. --Sky Harbor (talk) 00:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I've always been interested in aviation, so don't worry I can handle the jargon! I'm more concerned with the cost of the fare than I am the flight time so I do find it attractive that the fares to the Philippines are low, even if for me it would require at least one stopover. CT Cooper · talk 13:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Ramadan 2013[edit]

Hi, based on discussions on foundation-l, several people think avoiding Ramadan will encourage participation from the middle east and other muslim regions since a lot of practicing muslims will not travel during Ramadan, Ramadan 2013 will happen between July 9 and August 7, are you planning to take that into account? --Shipmaster 22:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

If we do get to bid, I hope Ramadan will be put into consideration. Eid al-Fitr however is a national holiday in the Philippines, and there is a significant Muslim minority in Manila, so we hope that if in the event Wikimania will be hosted during Ramadan, we can accommodate practicing Muslims. It's tricky finding a suitable date for a Wikimania in Manila because our paramount concern right now is the weather: like the Ramadan period, Wikimania falls during the rainy season (even more so typhoon season), and I hope we can find a date which is not only conducive to hosting a conference, but also allows as many attendees to come as possible. --Sky Harbor (talk) 02:05, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikimedia Philippines[edit]

We would like to state that Wikimedia Philippines has not given any decision nor endorsement to this personal initiative of Sky Harbor. Our organization would be able to submit an endorsement once we have enough awareness, linkages, volunteers and support from the general membership. At this time we are focused on small scale outreach, localized forums, discussions and talks to other like minded organizations to be able to get support for our projects. --Exec8 04:34, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I believe I have made this clear in the page that this is not endorsed by the chapter, but I would like to see the chapter consider the project. If other chapters which are in the same boat as we are right now can do something like this, why is it that we can't? --Sky Harbor (talk) 09:43, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
True. The next hosts of Wikimania, Wikimedia District of Columbia, were only recognised as a chapter a month ago. CT Cooper · talk 10:27, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
If I may add, Wikimania 2005, 2007 and 2009 were organized by chapters which at the time were established between 6 and 18 months ago. I'm inclined to believe that Wikimania gives good press coverage, so I'd certainly like to see the chapter consider the project. I don't see why we have to be so defeatist on the issue. --Sky Harbor (talk) 11:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Being the Treasurer and Trustee of the Board, I would say that the chapter's hand is full at the moment, trying to meet regulatory requirements and implementing other projects. Winning the 2013 bid, will be very ideal and nostalgic in some sense as it also coincides with the 10th year of the Tagalog Wikipedia, it's just not really among the chapter's priorities at the moment. The personal crusade of the proponent, if successful would ultimately launch the entire chapter into guaranteeing its success, as this is not a one man show. The work it will entail would distract the chapter from what it intends to focus on, and in an enormous undertaking such as Wikimania, the work should commence in earnest, at least 1 year before it's implemented. Also, Wikipedia has not achieved any foothold yet in any university which could potentially host the event. I'm sure you know 2013 is an election year, and it would be much harder to corner corporate sponsorship as they would have been sucked dry by political parties by that time and without an NGO certification which takes around 6 months to 18 months from the time of submission (probably around mid-2012), it will be hard to convince donors to funnel their money to us, lest they be assessed by the now aggressive Bureau of Internal Revenue with Donor's Tax. To add to it, a Wikimania would just be a few months after election period, Manila would still be plastered with campaign posters. Certainly it's not the best year to host the event, which I would like to see Manila or other Philippine city host one day. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 16:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think NGO certification is necessary to host a Wikimania, though it does sound good on our résumé. At the same time, I can agree that the chapter has a lot of work ahead of it particularly after Asaf's visit last month. However, I am inclined to believe in two things: one, the quality of our volunteers; and two, the possibility of us being able to recruit volunteers for such an undertaking. Inasmuch as I would like us to take things slowly, I would believe that taking things too slowly merely reduces our potential, and I have never considered this as a one-man show. I have always wanted the chapter to avail of the benefits that such an undertaking grants us in terms of media coverage, organizational capacity and scaling, public support and the like, and should we get to bid (and IF we win such a bid), this can well be a guarantor of the chapter's success and the years of effort we poured into making this organization a reality.
Also, on a side note, Surakarta is bidding. Bennylin is not even affiliated with WMID, yet such a proposal is floating. I just think it would be wise for us to test the waters before we jump into any conclusions, and win or lose, at least we know what we're doing. I'll gladly accept any outcome to that effect if we get the chance to bid, or even if the membership body will even consider bidding as a possibility for expanding our projects. Besides, if we organize this, then at the very least there should be some assurance that we can organize anything. --Sky Harbor (talk) 18:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Wow... you're fast :). Bennylin 21:19, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
I follow Meta's Recent Changes feed. ;) --Sky Harbor (talk) 21:26, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Based on my best understanding, as of January 04, 2012 (PH Time) no other Wikipedian nor WMPH member nor Wikipedia reader residing in the Philippines has expressed willingness to pursue a 2013 bid. --Exec8 22:07, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
I and key members would personally express our willingness to the lone proponent's bid if he was able to meet the following:
1. Prepare a detailed, SMART Project Plan that will include
a. Persons who will comprise the Bid committee and their roles and responsibilities during the bidding process. Indicate first choice and second choice (should lone proponent failed to muster support from WMPH)
b. Financial requirement - (1) where to get the money and how legally raise money should a foundation grant is not given or at most 50% is given. (2) Budget Plan. Allocation for leased items and venues, services, food, emergency fund, honoraria, ad space, souvenirs, information and promotional materials
c. Marketing component - who will promote and how will Filipinos get awareness on during the bid and after if the Manila wins the bid (not just Social media sites)
d. Manpower - where and how to get volunteers, solicitors, committee members handling event, safety, information, accommodation and logistics. Recruitment plan of increasing project members from 1 person to a sufficient figure to handle a worldwide event.
e. Timelines - Things humanly possible (which include GANTT chart) to do during Bid, Event preparation time, week before the pre-event, pre-event activities, event proper, sidelines to the event, post-event activities, evaluation period, closing period
2. Bid endorsements from academe, tech industry, non-profits, government, popular figures, Wikipedia readers, Wikipedians in the Philippines and members of WMPH
3. Quick Guidebook for bid evaluators and potential delegates
4. Contingency plan - should Natural, man-made unnecessary situations happen, ready-made answers for those who have second thoughts of going to the Philippines because of the cultural indifference, political situation.
5. Social Awareness - Manila bid should be a trending topic in social media and is being discussed by popular figures in the Philippines.
If he is serious with this, its time that the proponent should draw the blueprint and not compose an oratorical piece and a travel book --Exec8 23:05, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
I have yet to see a bid for Wikimania 2013 with all of that. Even the in-draft UK bids, which are serious ones, don't do that much. Personally I think this is getting the order of events wrong. For the UK bid proposals, some support was put together first, then the details were put together in a group effort. At the end of the day, anyone can propose to host Wikimania, and it is quite obvious that many of these bids, like some that have been seen for the Olympics, are just testing the water. I think it would be unwise for Wikimedia Philippines to put down contributors with aspirations for their chapter. CT Cooper · talk 13:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Given recent events on this matter, I am extremely inclined at the moment to push through for a 2014 bid rather than a 2013 bid. --Sky Harbor (talk) 09:35, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
2014 is a bit of a wildcard until the 2013 location is known, due to the desire to rotate Wikimania around the world. However, most of the current proposed locations would allow a 2014 Wikimania in Manila, if there is support for it. The Bristol draft bid for the UK seems to be really getting traction now, with collaboration already arranged with local organizations and businesses. Early on there were calls for the UK to hold-off to 2014, but the decision seems to have been made to go for 2013. CT Cooper · talk 19:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)