Talk:Wikimedia Foundation Community Affairs Committee/2022-02-17 Conversation with Trustees
Good Standing[edit]
What does Good Standing mean. When do I have no longer a Good Standing in the Community. Please try to explain what that means. After my understanding it happens for example if a user is banned from all Wikimedia projects.--Hogü-456 (talk) 16:58, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Hogü-456: That's right, any user without a community or Foundation ban is considered in good standing. --ELappen (WMF) (talk) 15:28, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- @ELappen (WMF): errr, this is extremely important to note here. Is this is a formal position from the Foundation of what "editor in good standing is" - we lost a candidate out of the MCDC elections who likely would have been selected if not for a radically different interpretation of "good standing" (which was basically that any sanction above a warning (i.e. an editing restriction) voided good standing). Now I fully understand that that would be way too onerous a standard for something like attending CAC meetings, but I would ask if Comms, MSG, and T&S (the groups that make most common references to it) could either agree a standard definition or spell out the specific restriction for the specific activity "e.g. no project-banned or WMF-banned editors" Nosebagbear (talk) 11:35, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Nosebagbear: fair point. And no, this is not an official Foundation blanket definition. While it makes sense to me that different projects would require and use a different definition of "good standing" depending on the task at hand--same goes for its usage in the rest of the movement--I also get a need for clarity. I'd be happy to spell out the criteria in the next announcement. I helped to massively trim down and simplify the announcement for this event (you can see the previous one, about three times as long) with, of course, an eye towards speaking human. The part referencing bans got consolidated like much of the rest of the messaging--my thinking was that if people had questions, they could ask. My only reservation about using "users without project or Foundation bans" other than it being verbose, is that it's a negative frame. Would there be a way to phrase it more positively while still being clear? If not, that's okay, just would be preferable. --ELappen (WMF) (talk) 18:14, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
- That's fair - if there's another positive term to "good standing" (even if its vague) that would be fine (the clarity matters less when the threshold is much lower) - it's more so it's not co-occupying the term.
- In regards to a positive term meaning non-sitebanned, perhaps something akin to "any editor permitted to edit all projects"? (I'd use "able" but I'm not sure we have anyone able to edit all 500+ projects) Nosebagbear (talk) 18:19, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Nosebagbear: fair point. And no, this is not an official Foundation blanket definition. While it makes sense to me that different projects would require and use a different definition of "good standing" depending on the task at hand--same goes for its usage in the rest of the movement--I also get a need for clarity. I'd be happy to spell out the criteria in the next announcement. I helped to massively trim down and simplify the announcement for this event (you can see the previous one, about three times as long) with, of course, an eye towards speaking human. The part referencing bans got consolidated like much of the rest of the messaging--my thinking was that if people had questions, they could ask. My only reservation about using "users without project or Foundation bans" other than it being verbose, is that it's a negative frame. Would there be a way to phrase it more positively while still being clear? If not, that's okay, just would be preferable. --ELappen (WMF) (talk) 18:14, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
Zoom[edit]
The usage of Zoom discriminates against those who believe in software freedom, hence this process is not inclusive nor fair. Nemo 13:46, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Nemo, the use of a Zoom room with a live YouTube stream was made based on a number of considerations around security, ease of access, and equitable access. As examples, Zoom provides an unparalleled experience for simultaneous language interpretation, as well as live subtitling, to make the event more accessible to speakers of different languages. YouTube allows for a low bandwidth stream, as well as good live subtitling, so that people from different regions of the world, as well as people not wanting to sign in to any platform, can easily tune in. The video will be uploaded to Commons after and there is an option to submit questions ahead of time, so anyone not wanting to use Zoom or YouTube can avoid those platforms and still participate. These decisions are not made lightly, and we strive to meet the needs of as many diverse community members as possible. --ELappen (WMF) (talk) 20:43, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I appreciate there are multiple considerations, but I'm dubious about extraordinary claims like "unparalleled experience": was there even an RfP to request such features from free software competitors?
- Running Zoom is too much of a risk and legal liability, I don't have resources to get into such a swamp for the sake of one call. As for YouTube live, it has undisclosed software requirements and just refuses to load on chromium (also, it requires to be logged in or to authenticate with cookies to get past their consent wall); it might work from an invidious instance like https://yewtu.be/watch?v=NCU7aObkG84 , and I encourage you to verify that's the case, but I may or may not manage to test in time.
- Commons recording are definitely useful. Nemo 10:03, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- For the sake of balance here, I'm going to note my strong personal preference of Zoom over the fairly broad selection of both other paid (e.g. google meet) and FOSS (e.g. jitsi) options, both of which are far inferior for core functionality such as mixed-internet quality handling, and key additional functionality such as breakout rooms and interpretation. Nosebagbear (talk) 11:29, 22 February 2022 (UTC)