Wikimedia Canada/Meetings/2008-01-30/Logs

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[2008-01-30 19:04:29] <Alan_Ca> Good evening everyone, I announced tonight's meeting on the listserv about two weeks ago.
[2008-01-30 19:04:33] <kibble> okay, shall we start the meeting?
[2008-01-30 19:04:39] <Mitchell> I see it as a reminder to RSVP
[2008-01-30 19:04:43] <Mitchell> Let's go
[2008-01-30 19:04:47] <Zirland> kibble: it helps us feel comfortable here
[2008-01-30 19:04:48] <kibble> ===	#wikimedia-ca: Pathoschild +coldacid BDerksen SWATJester +Padraic Zirland +Ktsquare +Alan_Ca Mike2 +wknight8111 +Shanel_ +kibble +Mitchell @ChanServ +Az1568
[2008-01-30 19:04:49] <kibble> 	---	#wikimedia-ca: End of /NAMES list.
[2008-01-30 19:05:12] <kibble> brb
[2008-01-30 19:05:14] <--| kibble has left #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:05:16] -->| kibble (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Cbrown1023) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:05:28] <Alan_Ca> I originally found out about this project while trying to find a way to make a Canadian tax free donation to Wikipedia.
[2008-01-30 19:05:37] <Pathoschild> Aren't they already?
[2008-01-30 19:05:38] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v kibble  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 19:05:42] -->| yanstheman (n=yansthem@bas4-toronto63-1096807307.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:05:43] <kibble> they are, Pathoschild :-)
[2008-01-30 19:05:47] <Pathoschild> :)
[2008-01-30 19:05:59] <Alan_Ca> Is everyone here tonight familiar with the listserv?
[2008-01-30 19:06:06] <kibble> yes
[2008-01-30 19:06:07] <coldacid> kinda
[2008-01-30 19:06:08] <Mitchell> The mailing list?
[2008-01-30 19:06:09] <Padraic> yes
[2008-01-30 19:06:10] <Shanel_> Good ol' mailman.
[2008-01-30 19:06:18] <Shanel_> kibble is our mailing list master.
[2008-01-30 19:06:23] <kibble> :-D
[2008-01-30 19:06:26] <Alan_Ca> Or rather, is there anyone here tonight that is not familiar with the listserv mailing list
[2008-01-30 19:06:29] -->| HOTR (n=gerald@CPE0080c6f097c0-CM001ade8537c2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:06:55] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v HOTR  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 19:08:01] <Shanel_> Seems not.
[2008-01-30 19:08:04] <Alan_Ca> As a new person to this initiative I was hoping to tap into some of the pre-existing wisdom regarding the WIkimedia Canada project.  Is there anyone here in attendance tonight who has been part of trying to launch this charity in the past?
[2008-01-30 19:08:14] * Mitchell says I
[2008-01-30 19:08:17] <Mitchell> A little
[2008-01-30 19:08:25] <HOTR> yes
[2008-01-30 19:08:28] =-= Shanel_ is now known as Shanel
[2008-01-30 19:08:33] <Mitchell> When I tried reviving it a few months back, there was no interest
[2008-01-30 19:08:40] * kibble has been around since then
[2008-01-30 19:08:54] <Padraic> I've been following the various attempts on the mailing list, that's it.
[2008-01-30 19:09:06] <Shanel> Same.
[2008-01-30 19:09:17] *kibble* you're logging, right?
[2008-01-30 19:09:24] <coldacid> likewise
[2008-01-30 19:09:27] <Alan_Ca> So as far as anyone here tonight knows there has not been a real concerted effort to get this off the ground?
[2008-01-30 19:09:32] <coldacid> i was invited into taking part some time in the past
[2008-01-30 19:09:35] <HOTR> I tried to track down the original founders in the middle of last year
[2008-01-30 19:09:41] <Padraic> it seems every discussion ends with "so, now we just need to take this to a lawyer...."
[2008-01-30 19:10:01] <Alan_Ca> wknight are you here?
[2008-01-30 19:10:05] <wknight8111> I'm here
[2008-01-30 19:10:06] <kibble> he is
[2008-01-30 19:10:09] * BDerksen was asked to be a founding member of the board of directors about two months back, but I never heard anything more after that.
[2008-01-30 19:10:11] <wknight8111> just a fly on the wall
[2008-01-30 19:10:14] <Alan_Ca> right
[2008-01-30 19:10:17] <kibble> heh, wknight8111 ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:10:31] <HOTR> They seemed to have all gone on wikibreaks ... so I started by reaching out to many on the "participant list" and forming a group of 10 interested people to found the org.
[2008-01-30 19:10:36] <Alan_Ca> But what I would like to know, from your chapcomm perspective, do you believe this group is ready to move to the legal step?
[2008-01-30 19:10:41] <BDerksen> Possibly for the best considering I have no idea how to direct anything.
[2008-01-30 19:10:49] <coldacid> who is/was DarkEvil, btw?
[2008-01-30 19:10:52] <wknight8111> what is the status of your bylaws? 
[2008-01-30 19:10:53] <Mitchell> For those who don't know, wknight8111 is our ChapCom representative.
[2008-01-30 19:10:59] <wknight8111> last I looked, you had several drafts
[2008-01-30 19:11:02] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so we're on the same page
[2008-01-30 19:11:05] * kibble nods
[2008-01-30 19:11:08] <Padraic> there are several drafts of bylaws, no agreement on anything
[2008-01-30 19:11:15] <Alan_Ca> The next step to getting this moving is refining a draft of the bylaws
[2008-01-30 19:11:16] <kibble> wknight8111: HOTR is working on merging those for us
[2008-01-30 19:11:27] <wknight8111> Well, the first step is to pick a finalized version of the bylaws, and agree upon them yourselves
[2008-01-30 19:11:27] * Mitchell cheers for HOTR
[2008-01-30 19:11:40] <wknight8111> step 2: submit bylaws to the chapcom for approval
[2008-01-30 19:11:49] <HOTR> wknight8111: They are in 3rd draft. We have spoken (on an aside basis) to a legal person and I'm following up their suggestion.
[2008-01-30 19:12:01] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v BDerksen  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 19:12:23] <Alan_Ca> wknight8111, do you know if the WMF offers any funding for the legal costs associated with forming the non profit?
[2008-01-30 19:12:39] <yanstheman> are there any major difference between the bylaws we should be thinking about before sending them to lawyers? I read over them and they seemed quite similar for the most part...
[2008-01-30 19:12:43] <kibble> Alan_Ca: it is of the opinion that you don't necessarily need them, I believe
[2008-01-30 19:12:47] <wknight8111> The documentation does mention helping with "startup costs", but I've never seen them dispersed in practice
[2008-01-30 19:12:47] <HOTR> "several drafts" <-- well, there are some working differences, but I think there isn't fundamental disagreement in the spirit of these drafts
[2008-01-30 19:13:03] <kibble> Alan_Ca: for example, ChapCom will review your documents
[2008-01-30 19:13:09] <kibble> as will the members of your proposed chapter
[2008-01-30 19:13:12] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so it would be fair to say that this group has two immediate tasks:
[2008-01-30 19:13:19] <kibble> we can get some lawyer to look at them as a pro bono task if necessary
[2008-01-30 19:13:25] <Alan_Ca> 1) To draft a final of the bylaws for legal vetting
[2008-01-30 19:13:33] <Alan_Ca> 2) To raise funds to pay the legal costs
[2008-01-30 19:13:42] <kibble> but we have certain people who are already pretty good at bylaws (I think Ec is), so why do we need a lawyer?
[2008-01-30 19:13:44] <Padraic> there have been offers of pro bono assistance on the list in the past
[2008-01-30 19:13:54] * kibble nods
[2008-01-30 19:13:59] <coldacid> just dont ask me to look over them
[2008-01-30 19:14:05] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:14:07] * coldacid is sick of dealing with bylaws for other groups
[2008-01-30 19:14:07] <kibble> coldacid:  you can still look
[2008-01-30 19:14:08] <wknight8111> Keep in mind that you dont *need* to be a registered non-profit in order to become a chapter
[2008-01-30 19:14:17] <kibble> but it is helpful
[2008-01-30 19:14:33] <kibble> especially if like Alan_Ca says, they want something in Canada to make tax-deductible donations to
[2008-01-30 19:14:43] <Alan_Ca> I believe funding is a key element to running a successful chapter
[2008-01-30 19:14:44] <coldacid> its required in canada to be able to take charitable donations
[2008-01-30 19:14:48] <Padraic> I think that should be our #1 priority
[2008-01-30 19:14:52] <Alan_Ca> Agreed
[2008-01-30 19:14:54] <Padraic> (donations)
[2008-01-30 19:14:56] <coldacid> what, fundraising?
[2008-01-30 19:14:56] <wknight8111> WMF Hong Kong has been incorporated for several years now, and is still not a chapter. It just goes to show that the two are not related
[2008-01-30 19:15:11] <HOTR> kibble: We need a real lawyer to check things over. Even though we might think we're experts, we're not legal experts, and that is a big difference.
[2008-01-30 19:15:21] <Alan_Ca> Do we not need approval from the WMF to call our corporation Wikimedia Canada?
[2008-01-30 19:15:28] <kibble> you do
[2008-01-30 19:15:30] <wknight8111> you do
[2008-01-30 19:15:33] -->| carl (n=chatzill@cbl-66-102-80-212.wtccommunications.ca) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:15:41] <HOTR> wknight8111: True, but to be able to be viable we should persue that path
[2008-01-30 19:15:44] <kibble> HOTR: some are
[2008-01-30 19:15:48] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:15:51] <wknight8111> you need approval for the name "Wikimedia", and for use of an official logo
[2008-01-30 19:15:55] <kibble> and we can get some to do pro bono items
[2008-01-30 19:15:57] * kibble nods at wknight8111
[2008-01-30 19:16:04] <Zirland> and hong kong is approved to use the name, even when this is not a chapter?
[2008-01-30 19:16:08] <kibble> like trademarks andstuff
[2008-01-30 19:16:11] <Alan_Ca> Right
[2008-01-30 19:16:19] <kibble> Zirland: it's not really
[2008-01-30 19:16:23] <kibble> but their corporation is formed
[2008-01-30 19:16:33] <HOTR> I don't agree funding/donations should be our #1 priority as WM Canada ... but money is important to this thing.
[2008-01-30 19:16:34] <kibble> but they're not allowed to use the name and aren't an official chapter yet
[2008-01-30 19:16:41] <Alan_Ca> I believe we should focus on fund raising and becoming a non-profit
[2008-01-30 19:16:44] <Zirland> so they are formed, but they are not allowed to use the name, right?
[2008-01-30 19:16:55] <kibble> but this is getting more confusing because there are certain problems accosiated with HK that we shouldn't bring up :-)
[2008-01-30 19:17:11] <wknight8111> Right, they aren't a proper example to follow, or even to be concerned with
[2008-01-30 19:17:12] <Alan_Ca> This will enable us to acquire the permission for Wikimedia Canada and provide a venue for tax donations to further the goals of the foundation
[2008-01-30 19:17:12] <kibble> (confusing)
[2008-01-30 19:17:13] <carl> how do they incorporate without being able to use the name? as a numbered company?
[2008-01-30 19:17:20] <Padraic> Alan: fundraising for the chapter itself, or as a Canadian source for general Wikimedia funding?
[2008-01-30 19:17:27] <kibble> both
[2008-01-30 19:17:34] <kibble> but
[2008-01-30 19:17:36] <Alan_Ca> Fundraising for the chapter
[2008-01-30 19:17:45] <kibble> Canadians can donate tax-exempt to the WMF
[2008-01-30 19:17:47] <Alan_Ca> As far as I know we cannot transfer funds to WMF
[2008-01-30 19:17:55] <Padraic> kibble: really?
[2008-01-30 19:18:00] <Zirland> Alan_Ca: why?
[2008-01-30 19:18:01] <Mitchell> kibble: really?
[2008-01-30 19:18:02] <kibble> see http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Deductibility_of_donations
[2008-01-30 19:18:18] <kibble> "Because of the Wikimedia Foundation's 501(c)3 status in the United States, Canada's tax code will generally permit deductibility of donations to the WMF from the donor's US taxable income only. A useful reference may be Article XXI, Paragraph 6 of the US-Canada tax treaty. Please contact a tax professional for the details of deducting such a donation."
[2008-01-30 19:18:21] <Padraic> "from the donor's US taxable income only"
[2008-01-30 19:18:22] <HOTR> Ok, let's focus for a sec :)
[2008-01-30 19:18:25] <Mitchell> Oh yea, this was mentioned at the last meeting
[2008-01-30 19:18:37] <kibble> ahh, k, Padraic :-)
[2008-01-30 19:18:41] <Alan_Ca> Ok, that link
[2008-01-30 19:18:43] <Alan_Ca> I just read it
[2008-01-30 19:18:57] <Alan_Ca> It states that WMF donations for canadians are only tax deductible against their foreign US income
[2008-01-30 19:19:02] * kibble nods
[2008-01-30 19:19:06] <HOTR> I don't think deductability is the only reason that we should form WM Canada.
[2008-01-30 19:19:12] * kibble thinks our previous meeting was more organized
[2008-01-30 19:19:18] <kibble> HOTR: I don't think everyone feels that way either
[2008-01-30 19:19:24] <Alan_Ca> HOTR: It is not the only reason, but it is the means by which we achieve our goals
[2008-01-30 19:19:59] <Alan_Ca> So we understand the following:
[2008-01-30 19:20:07] <Alan_Ca> actually
[2008-01-30 19:20:17] <HOTR> Well, the strategic part is the important part. Some will donate for deductability, but if we're using the money to vacation in France then we won't be getting that for long. :)
[2008-01-30 19:20:24] <Alan_Ca> Wknight, does the chapter need to be a non-profit to get permission to use the Wikimedia name?
[2008-01-30 19:20:24] <kibble> heh
[2008-01-30 19:20:35] <kibble> Alan_Ca: no, it needs to be a chapter
[2008-01-30 19:20:43] * kibble thinks we need to view the agenda
[2008-01-30 19:20:44] <coldacid> does WMF have any costs for services provided in canada?
[2008-01-30 19:20:53] <wknight8111> Alan_Ca, no. you do not need to be a non-profit to become a chapter. but you must have intentions to become one eventually
[2008-01-30 19:21:06] <HOTR> wknight8111: Nod
[2008-01-30 19:21:10] <Alan_Ca> ok, so we can agree that becoming a non-profit is essential
[2008-01-30 19:21:15] <Mitchell> Yes
[2008-01-30 19:21:23] * BDerksen nods.
[2008-01-30 19:21:24] <yanstheman> i'd agree with that
[2008-01-30 19:21:30] <HOTR> Non profit with the end goal of being a charitable org.
[2008-01-30 19:21:32] <coldacid> unless WMF is paying to canadian businesses anything, what would the canada chapter need money for?
[2008-01-30 19:21:38] <carl> That was the whole point... otherwise we're as virtual as Uncyclomedia
[2008-01-30 19:21:51] <Alan_Ca> ok, let's try to move to the agenda now that we have some basic structure to what we are doing and why
[2008-01-30 19:21:55] <kibble> coldacid: it's own actions
[2008-01-30 19:22:05] <Mitchell> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Meetings/2008-01-30
[2008-01-30 19:22:06] <carl> I'd suspect most of Wikimedias funds go to server co-location?
[2008-01-30 19:22:08] <kibble> that pursue the goals of WMF
[2008-01-30 19:22:11] <HOTR> coldacid: We actually addressed some of the "why" in the last (informal) meeting
[2008-01-30 19:22:12] <coldacid> which actions? we'll be hosting events, etc?
[2008-01-30 19:22:16] <HOTR> Thanks for the link
[2008-01-30 19:22:18] * kibble nods at HOTR
[2008-01-30 19:22:42] <yanstheman> carl: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Planned_Spending_Distribution_2007-2008
[2008-01-30 19:22:43] <kibble> do we want to take a 5 minute break so that people can catch up from last meeting?
[2008-01-30 19:22:44] <kibble> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Meetings/2008-01-23
[2008-01-30 19:22:53] <Alan_Ca> Sure, let's talk a 5 minute break
[2008-01-30 19:22:56] <Alan_Ca> *take
[2008-01-30 19:22:56] <Mitchell> Good times...
[2008-01-30 19:23:04] <Padraic> unfortunately I have to catch a train...good night. I'll be on the mailing list..
[2008-01-30 19:23:05] <HOTR> "Creation and propogation of free content resources"
[2008-01-30 19:23:10] <BDerksen> One of the other major benefits of having a Wikimedia Canada would IMO be the "name recognition" and the fancy title we could use when going around to various organizations and trying to get them to release useful material and such.
[2008-01-30 19:23:16] <kibble> night Padraic 
[2008-01-30 19:23:17] * coldacid just doesn't see much use in providing a fundraising channel unless there's loopholes allowing the chapter to flow cash to WMF HQ
[2008-01-30 19:23:24] <Mitchell> Bye Padraic!
[2008-01-30 19:23:36] |<-- Padraic has left irc.freenode.net ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
[2008-01-30 19:23:51] <Mitchell> And why can't we transfer money to WMF?
[2008-01-30 19:23:53] <Alan_Ca> ok, this is derailing a bit here
[2008-01-30 19:24:03] <Alan_Ca> The flow of funds to WMF is not what this is about
[2008-01-30 19:24:10] <HOTR> coldacid: There isn't anything saying we can't send some money to WMF ... but that isn't going to be our _sole_ purpose.
[2008-01-30 19:24:17] <carl> The loophole to flow cash to WMF? Presumably, we take on some of the expenses which otherwise would have been paid by them - such as a few servers
[2008-01-30 19:24:30] <Alan_Ca> These are capital planning discussions
[2008-01-30 19:24:41] <Alan_Ca> As we have absolutely no capital, they are futile at this point
[2008-01-30 19:24:58] <Alan_Ca> I will be impressed if we can raise the money to form and maintain this corporation in 2008
[2008-01-30 19:25:19] <Alan_Ca> At a bare minimum this organization can serve to use funds to promote the Wikimedia projects in Canada
[2008-01-30 19:25:21] <kibble> okay, shall we start the meeting off with what we stated on the agenda?
[2008-01-30 19:25:31] <coldacid> the money to form shouldn't be much... if we do that ourselves, not using any agencies except for name search it should be about $300
[2008-01-30 19:25:32] <Alan_Ca> So to the first item on the agenda
[2008-01-30 19:25:33] <Mitchell> Introductions!
[2008-01-30 19:25:37] <Mitchell> Yay!
[2008-01-30 19:25:38] <kibble> introductions :-)
[2008-01-30 19:25:43] <kibble> okay, let's go around the room like last time
[2008-01-30 19:25:52] <Mitchell> Alan, you start
[2008-01-30 19:25:52] <kibble> basically just name, where you're from, and whatever else you want to say
[2008-01-30 19:25:52] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 19:25:56] <coldacid> alphabetical again, eh
[2008-01-30 19:25:59] <kibble> sure
[2008-01-30 19:26:03] <HOTR> Alan_Ca: I think coldacid is making a valid point -- but I think we've got a bunch of good "why should we do this" reasons, and somehow getting funds to WMF could be something we could look at ... in the future.
[2008-01-30 19:26:33] * kibble pokes Alan_Ca to start his intro
[2008-01-30 19:26:35] <Alan_Ca> I'm Alan Walker, I live in Hamilton, Ontario.  I am currently serving as a board member for the CityHousing Hamilton Corporation and the Provincial Transit Gas Tax Committee
[2008-01-30 19:26:41] -->| Ayelie (n=Ayelie@wikimedia/Editor-at-Large) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:26:54] <Alan_Ca> Az is next
[2008-01-30 19:26:55] <kibble> and Az1568 is unfortunately away, it seems, but he's from California ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:27:06] <HOTR> Ok, BDerksen is up then
[2008-01-30 19:27:06] <Alan_Ca> on to BDerkson
[2008-01-30 19:27:10] <coldacid> heh
[2008-01-30 19:27:24] <BDerksen> I'm Bryan Derksen, I'm from Edmonton. Very long-running editor of wiki.en who currently has a bad cold.
[2008-01-30 19:27:27] <kibble> last meeting we had this flowing really well ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:27:33] <kibble> coldacid :-)
[2008-01-30 19:27:56] * BDerksen hehs. My intro was longer in the previous meeting, too.
[2008-01-30 19:28:03] <Alan_Ca> Coldacid?
[2008-01-30 19:28:05] <coldacid> I'm Chris Charabaruk, from Pickering. I'm president of Toast IT Toastmasters, and one of the founders of the seemingly-defunct Toronto Independent Games Conference.
[2008-01-30 19:28:13] * coldacid isn't typing as fast as he used to
[2008-01-30 19:28:16] <kibble> heh
[2008-01-30 19:28:29] * kibble huggles Ayelie, btw, we're doing introductions right now
[2008-01-30 19:28:34] <Ayelie> :D
[2008-01-30 19:28:35] * Ayelie listens
[2008-01-30 19:28:37] <kibble> +v's are people who RSVP'ed
[2008-01-30 19:28:45] * carl (en:carlb, fr:carlb, uncyclopedia:carlb) is a computer engineer in Kingston, Ontario and has been playing a bit part on Wikipedia since 2004 or so.
[2008-01-30 19:28:49] <kibble> HOTR: ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:29:27] <Alan_Ca> Please enter your introduction before it's your turn so that when you're up you can just hit enter
[2008-01-30 19:29:37] <kibble> Alan_Ca: that's what I was thinking :-)
[2008-01-30 19:29:42] <kibble> let's just randomly go now
[2008-01-30 19:29:54] <Alan_Ca> agreed, everyone type their intro
[2008-01-30 19:29:54] * kibble is kibble, Cbrown1023, and Casey ;-) from the US
[2008-01-30 19:29:55] <Alan_Ca> :)
[2008-01-30 19:29:57] <kibble> next
[2008-01-30 19:29:59] <Ktsquare> bye padraic
[2008-01-30 19:30:13] <BDerksen> it;'s not too late to RSVP, I did it after the meeting began and I got a +V. :)
[2008-01-30 19:30:16] * HOTR is a Wikiversity and Meta contributor, has been involved in some of the Wikimanias (and the Toronto Wikimania bid) and tried to get this show going again in the middle of last year, which resulted in the drafts of the bylaws that we have at present
[2008-01-30 19:30:39] * kibble pokes Mitchell, Ktsquare, Shanel, and wknight8111 to introduce next ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:30:40] <HOTR> I'm from Toronto and I'm Gerald A
[2008-01-30 19:30:45] <kibble> then we'll get to the unvoiced'er
[2008-01-30 19:30:47] <Mitchell> Hi everyone! I'm Mitchell (Greeves on-wiki), a proud Winnipegger (it's really cold here right now, with wind chills of -50!). I've been an English Wikipedia administrator since June and a Wikipedian since November 2006. Lately I have been more active on Meta-Wiki than in the past. I've always been interested in helping form WMC and am happy that there is finally interest!
[2008-01-30 19:30:48] <kibble> s
[2008-01-30 19:31:00] <wknight8111> I'm Andrew Whitworth, ChapCom member and representative for WMF CA, organizer for WMF PA, Graduate Student in Philadelphia PA
[2008-01-30 19:31:17] <Shanel> I'm Shanel Kalicharan, admin on en-wiki, en-source, and meta, steward and ORTSer (a lazy one however). I'm originally from Trinidad and Tobago, but I moved to Canada when I was 9. I'm a proud holder of Canadian citizenship since Valentine's day last year. :)
[2008-01-30 19:31:23] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:31:32] <kibble> I think Ktsquare might be lagged
[2008-01-30 19:31:38] <Alan_Ca> indeed
[2008-01-30 19:31:39] <kibble> so Ayelie, carl Mike2, and Pathoschild ?
[2008-01-30 19:31:57] * Pathoschild looks in and gets his introduction from the logs.
[2008-01-30 19:32:06] <Shanel> Lazy.
[2008-01-30 19:32:06] <kibble> heh
[2008-01-30 19:32:10] <HOTR> Ayelie Mike2 and Pathoschild don't have voice
[2008-01-30 19:32:12] * kibble shares Shanel 's sentiment
[2008-01-30 19:32:20] <kibble> HOTR: they can still speak
[2008-01-30 19:32:21] * Shanel gives kibble a cookie.
[2008-01-30 19:32:22] <kibble> we're not +m
[2008-01-30 19:32:22] <HOTR> Ah ok
[2008-01-30 19:32:24] <HOTR> :)
[2008-01-30 19:32:25] <kibble> :-D
[2008-01-30 19:32:28] <Shanel> Good non-lazy son.
[2008-01-30 19:32:31] <Ayelie> I'm Ayelie, a.k.a. Editor at Large on wikimedia projects, and I'm from Ottawa - into photography and art/graphic design primarily, am planning a move to Texas soon (oh dear) but would really rather stay in Canada :D
[2008-01-30 19:32:33] * kibble gobbles it up
[2008-01-30 19:32:42] <Alan_Ca> Ok, is that everyone alive?
[2008-01-30 19:32:50] <Shanel> Pathoschild still.
[2008-01-30 19:32:50] <yanstheman> I'm Ian Bailey from Toronto. I'm a software engineer that has been contributing mainly to Wikipedia-en... I've been mainly listening on the mailing list, but I'd like to see Wikimedia goals extended in Canada
[2008-01-30 19:32:52] <HOTR> Ayelie: EOL? :) Hey again
[2008-01-30 19:32:53] <kibble> we didn't ask SWATJester, yanstheman or Zirland yet ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:32:56] <Pathoschild> Meh. :)
[2008-01-30 19:33:02] <Shanel> >>:|
[2008-01-30 19:33:04] <Shanel> >:|
[2008-01-30 19:33:05] <kibble> ohh, yanstheman, you're Ian? :-)
[2008-01-30 19:33:08] * Ayelie hugs HOTR  and everyone else she knows
[2008-01-30 19:33:08] <yanstheman> yesh
[2008-01-30 19:33:10] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v yanstheman  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 19:33:13] <SWATJester> Ask me what I want?
[2008-01-30 19:33:18] <yanstheman> ahh... that's why
[2008-01-30 19:33:19] <SWATJester> or who I am?
[2008-01-30 19:33:20] <yanstheman> :)
[2008-01-30 19:33:24] <kibble> SWATJester: who you are :-)
[2008-01-30 19:33:30] <kibble> Ayelie: am I included in that huggle? ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:33:38] <Ayelie> 'course you are :P
[2008-01-30 19:33:41] <kibble> :-DD
[2008-01-30 19:33:42] <Alan_Ca> Ok, it's 20:30 now we need to move on
[2008-01-30 19:33:49] <kibble> okay, next agenda item
[2008-01-30 19:33:52] <HOTR> Any other intros?
[2008-01-30 19:33:56] <Alan_Ca> First item of business is to discuss the formation of a steering committee
[2008-01-30 19:33:59] <kibble> we had steering committe as next
[2008-01-30 19:33:59] <SWATJester> I'm Swatjester, I was a legal intern for the foundation, I'm a OTRS member, and I'm a law student in Washington DC
[2008-01-30 19:34:01] <kibble> yep
[2008-01-30 19:34:03] <HOTR> Going once, twice...
[2008-01-30 19:34:08] <kibble> gone!
[2008-01-30 19:34:11] <Shanel> Pathoschild is a frenchie.
[2008-01-30 19:34:13] <Shanel> The end.
[2008-01-30 19:34:14] <kibble> we're on to Alan_Ca with the steering committee
[2008-01-30 19:34:17] <coldacid> owch
[2008-01-30 19:34:24] * Mitchell cheers for Alan
[2008-01-30 19:34:27] <Alan_Ca> Mitch, can you hash out the rough structure we have thus far
[2008-01-30 19:34:48] <Alan_Ca> In terms of the positions we discussed might be useful?
[2008-01-30 19:34:55] <Zirland> Hi, I'm Zirland. I live in Prague, Czech Republic. I am pretty active all around the wikimedia and I am member of the preparatory committee of the Wikimedia Czech Republic chapter
[2008-01-30 19:35:07] <kibble> Zirland: :-)
[2008-01-30 19:35:09] <Mitchell> On the mailing list it was discussed having a committee to organize the formation of the chapter.
[2008-01-30 19:35:12] <Pathoschild> *wave* I'm [[user:Pathoschild]], from eastern Quebec, Canada, bilingually English and French. I'm a steward, OTRSer, language subcommittee member, Meta checkuser, admin on a few wikis. I'm mostly active on Meta and Wikisource. I mostly streamline or maintain (useful) process and policy, and code templates carefully designed for the scientific study of migraines. Whee. :)
[2008-01-30 19:35:18] <kibble> Pathoschild: slow
[2008-01-30 19:35:20] <kibble> :-P
[2008-01-30 19:35:24] <Shanel> Lazyslow.
[2008-01-30 19:35:28] <Pathoschild> I lost my logs, but Mitchell found it. :p
[2008-01-30 19:35:31] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:35:42] <Alan_Ca> I figure we need to fill the following roles:
[2008-01-30 19:35:43] <kibble> okay, so steering committee
[2008-01-30 19:35:49] <Alan_Ca> 1) Chairperson
[2008-01-30 19:35:52] <Mitchell> There was mention of there being positions such as chair, vice chair, treasurer, secretary, legal advisor, and a couple members-at-large.
[2008-01-30 19:35:52] <Alan_Ca> 2) Legal advisor
[2008-01-30 19:35:53] <Zirland> kibble: what? :o)
[2008-01-30 19:36:00] * kibble was smiling, Zirland :-P
[2008-01-30 19:36:03] <Alan_Ca> right Mitchell
[2008-01-30 19:36:06] <kibble> well, first of all
[2008-01-30 19:36:09] <Zirland> kibble: you wanted me to introduce, didnt you?
[2008-01-30 19:36:14] <kibble> do we need a steering committe? or just a mob
[2008-01-30 19:36:15] <kibble> Zirland: yep
[2008-01-30 19:36:45] <Zirland> it is 2.36 AM here
[2008-01-30 19:36:46] <Shanel> What would the steering committee do?
[2008-01-30 19:36:46] <Mitchell> kibble: I think that a steering committee could be a good idea so that we have a few people committed to the project.
[2008-01-30 19:36:49] <Alan_Ca> I think Mitchell has done an amazing job with the first informal meeting and maintaining the project page.  I would like for him to serve as seceretary
[2008-01-30 19:36:54] <Mitchell> :)
[2008-01-30 19:37:00] * Mitchell blushes
[2008-01-30 19:37:00] <wknight8111> Steering committee is a good idea, but if it's too big, it wont get any work done
[2008-01-30 19:37:06] <HOTR> kibble: I think some organisation would benefit us. I'm not sure how formalized it needs to be
[2008-01-30 19:37:15] * kibble nods with HOTR and Mitchell
[2008-01-30 19:37:31] <HOTR> I think before we start filling roles
[2008-01-30 19:37:33] <kibble> so who is committed to this and is willing to help "steer"?
[2008-01-30 19:37:40] <HOTR> We have to set some goals for this committee
[2008-01-30 19:37:40] <Mitchell> I would be
[2008-01-30 19:37:47] <yanstheman> i think we should establish what the requirements are for committe members
[2008-01-30 19:37:50] <kibble> k, HOTR, run with that ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:38:03] * coldacid sees himself in a more advisory position, not a steering committee type here
[2008-01-30 19:38:05] <yanstheman> e.g. attend irc meetings every x weeks
[2008-01-30 19:38:07] <Alan_Ca> A steering committee serves the purpose of steering the group of interest until a corporation is founded.
[2008-01-30 19:38:28] <Alan_Ca> The goal: To form the Wikimedia Canada non-profit
[2008-01-30 19:38:41] <kibble> sub-goals help
[2008-01-30 19:38:47] <HOTR> I think we all want this to get of the ground ASAP, but there will definately be some hurdles that we'll have to clear
[2008-01-30 19:38:49] * kibble learned that in health class ;-)
[2008-01-30 19:38:58] <kibble> HOTR: #1 is bylaws
[2008-01-30 19:39:02] <Mitchell> Goals:
[2008-01-30 19:39:02] <Mitchell> * Keep everyone organized (meetings, etc.)
[2008-01-30 19:39:02] <Mitchell> * STays committed
[2008-01-30 19:39:02] <Mitchell> * Communicates with ChapCom and wknight
[2008-01-30 19:39:02] <Mitchell> * etc.
[2008-01-30 19:39:02] <Mitchell> 
[2008-01-30 19:39:14] <Mitchell> And keeps everyone involved
[2008-01-30 19:39:20] <kibble> communicates with mailing list
[2008-01-30 19:39:22] <HOTR> And informed :)
[2008-01-30 19:39:33] <kibble> I'd like to see summaries of meetings going to the list :-)
[2008-01-30 19:39:42] <Alan_Ca> I believe a big hurdle to getting this accomplished will be too much saturation
[2008-01-30 19:39:42] <wknight8111> The bylaws really are the most important thing. The steering committee should focus on getting them prepared
[2008-01-30 19:39:42] <HOTR> I think we should set a preliminary deadline ... 
[2008-01-30 19:39:49] <Alan_Ca> We need a focussed team of people who are going to put in the time
[2008-01-30 19:39:56] <kibble> wknight8111: that's the next item on the agenda, btw
[2008-01-30 19:40:05] <kibble> HOTR: good idea
[2008-01-30 19:40:06] <Mitchell> Alan, you would be interested, right?
[2008-01-30 19:40:13] <kibble> some people work best with deadlines, HOTR 
[2008-01-30 19:40:29] <HOTR> or have some hard deadlines... (1) Vote on proposed bylaws, Feb 1 (as an example)
[2008-01-30 19:40:42] <Alan_Ca> The steering committe will manage all of this
[2008-01-30 19:40:57] <Alan_Ca> They key point here as I am interested to know who wants to be on this committee
[2008-01-30 19:41:03] <Mitchell> Is anyone here interested?
[2008-01-30 19:41:08] <Mitchell> Apart from Alan and I
[2008-01-30 19:41:17] * kibble is willing to assist
[2008-01-30 19:41:18] <yanstheman> i am interested, but i'm unsure of what requirements there are
[2008-01-30 19:41:24] <Shanel> I don't know how I could help with that...
[2008-01-30 19:41:26] <coldacid> only as a member-at-large
[2008-01-30 19:41:29] <kibble> yanstheman: just committed ot the project and willing to help out
[2008-01-30 19:41:44] <Alan_Ca> Committee members will have specific tasks
[2008-01-30 19:41:49] |<-- Ktsquare has left irc.freenode.net (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[2008-01-30 19:41:55] <Alan_Ca> I am willing to act as chair and co-ordinate the members
[2008-01-30 19:41:57] <Mitchell> By Ktsquare!
[2008-01-30 19:42:04] <Mitchell> *Bye
[2008-01-30 19:42:08] <HOTR> I'm interested to be on the committee, but the goals and deadlines thing is important. We've had an ad-hoc body that's done this for 6 months ... and I don't want to wait another 6 months for this to advance.
[2008-01-30 19:42:11] <Alan_Ca> But I need a group of people who are going to work seriously at this to make it happen
[2008-01-30 19:42:13] -->| Ktsquare (n=chatzill@CPE000f3d3c5e9b-CM0012c99f0b84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 19:42:17] <Mitchell> I would be willing to act as vice-chair or secretary
[2008-01-30 19:42:20] * kibble welcomes back Ktsquare
[2008-01-30 19:42:33] =-= Pathoschild is now known as slavie|away
[2008-01-30 19:42:44] <Mitchell> Bye Pathos!
[2008-01-30 19:42:45] * kibble would be willing to be something like member-at-large
[2008-01-30 19:42:46] <Alan_Ca> Are there any objections to me acting as chair and Mitchell acting as secretary?
[2008-01-30 19:42:49] <kibble> no
[2008-01-30 19:42:51] <Shanel> I would like to help however I can, although I am unsure what I can do.
[2008-01-30 19:42:53] <yanstheman> none here
[2008-01-30 19:42:58] * kibble elects Shanel to vice-chair
[2008-01-30 19:43:02] <Shanel> O_O
[2008-01-30 19:43:09] <Ktsquare> I would like to help also
[2008-01-30 19:43:09] <Mitchell> Shanel?
[2008-01-30 19:43:11] <kibble> one condition: no laziness >:|
[2008-01-30 19:43:27] <Mitchell> I nominate HOTR as legal advisor.
[2008-01-30 19:43:28] <Shanel> Nuuuuu.
[2008-01-30 19:43:33] <Ayelie> I can't devote time to it right now I'm afraid but I'd like to be a member-at-large, depending on what that position entails
[2008-01-30 19:43:34] * kibble seconds Mitchell 's nom
[2008-01-30 19:43:37] <HOTR> I think the chair or co-ordinator is important ... need someone to have the big picture.
[2008-01-30 19:43:38] <Shanel> Mitchell: Yes?
[2008-01-30 19:43:48] <Shanel> Ayelie: Goes well with your other nick. ;)
[2008-01-30 19:43:50] * BDerksen pleads medically-induced laziness right now. I can't really object to anything in this state. :)
[2008-01-30 19:43:51] <kibble> HOTR: and I think Alan has the drive
[2008-01-30 19:43:52] <HOTR> Secretary too .. need someone to record and disseminate info
[2008-01-30 19:43:53] <kibble> Shanel: I thought the same
[2008-01-30 19:43:57] <Ayelie> Shanel: exactly my thoughts ;)
[2008-01-30 19:43:58] <Shanel> :D
[2008-01-30 19:44:01] <kibble> HOTR: someone said Greeves
[2008-01-30 19:44:08] <Alan_Ca> Greeves=Mitchell
[2008-01-30 19:44:09] <Mitchell> I would be happy as secretary
[2008-01-30 19:44:24] <kibble> okay, let's have this voted upon the wiki somewhere
[2008-01-30 19:44:37] <kibble> ?
[2008-01-30 19:44:39] <Mitchell> I'll start a page
[2008-01-30 19:44:40] <coldacid> k
[2008-01-30 19:44:42] <Alan_Ca> I don't think we need a vote on the wiki
[2008-01-30 19:44:47] * HOTR nods at kibble
[2008-01-30 19:44:49] <Alan_Ca> THe meeeting was posted for two weeks
[2008-01-30 19:44:52] <kibble> Alan_Ca: just so it's easier to get it all organized
[2008-01-30 19:44:58] <Alan_Ca> IT will only delay
[2008-01-30 19:44:59] <kibble> then a bunch of people yelling at each other :-P
[2008-01-30 19:45:05] <kibble> Alan_Ca: I'm talking about people votiing right now
[2008-01-30 19:45:11] <kibble> adding their names to the page
[2008-01-30 19:45:11] <Alan_Ca> WE can vote right here
[2008-01-30 19:45:18] <HOTR> Alan_Ca: NO.
[2008-01-30 19:45:18] <Alan_Ca> The conversation is recorded
[2008-01-30 19:45:26] <coldacid> page gives us a good record at least
[2008-01-30 19:45:27] <kibble> and then the people in this channel can vote on that page right now, don't you think that's more organized?
[2008-01-30 19:45:33] <HOTR> This has to be open, and it has to be On wiki.
[2008-01-30 19:45:34] <coldacid> we can vote on the page and discuss here simultaneously
[2008-01-30 19:45:44] <kibble> coldacid: my sentiments exactly
[2008-01-30 19:45:49] <Mitchell> And close voting in a day or so
[2008-01-30 19:45:56] <Ayelie> I vote for on-wiki vote, less confusing and more organised
[2008-01-30 19:46:01] <Ktsquare> BTW, how would fellow canadian contact each other? IMO better coordination among canadian wikimedian is a condition
[2008-01-30 19:46:01] <HOTR> IRC is fine for discussions, but not everyone can attend this meeting, and they still need to have a chance to voice an opinion.
[2008-01-30 19:46:08] <Alan_Ca> Why should we proffer the option to vote to those who did not attend?
[2008-01-30 19:46:15] <coldacid> Ktsquare: IRC or on-wiki
[2008-01-30 19:46:25] <coldacid> Alan_Ca: more inclusive that way
[2008-01-30 19:46:26] <Alan_Ca> This project will only succeed because of those who take the time to show up and participate
[2008-01-30 19:46:34] <Mitchell> Will a treasurer be needed?
[2008-01-30 19:46:40] <coldacid> if we're more open like that, people will be more willing to participate as we move along
[2008-01-30 19:46:43] <kibble> Mitchell: I don't think at this juncture
[2008-01-30 19:46:44] <Alan_Ca> As I said before, trying to be all inclusive is going to saturate this process
[2008-01-30 19:46:50] <Mitchell> kibble: nor do I
[2008-01-30 19:47:05] <Mitchell> kibble: it was mentioned on the ,mailing list
[2008-01-30 19:47:18] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca there are times people just can't make it for various reasons, having an on-wiki vote that lasts more than an hour or two will be a good way to ensure everyone gets their voice heard; it has nothing to do with including people who aren't interested
[2008-01-30 19:47:21] <Alan_Ca> wknight, your thoughts?
[2008-01-30 19:47:26] <kibble> Mitchell: have you created that page yet?
[2008-01-30 19:47:29] <Mitchell> No
[2008-01-30 19:47:31] <HOTR> Alan_Ca: We can get participation out of people who aren't on IRC.
[2008-01-30 19:47:34] <Mitchell> Im working on it
[2008-01-30 19:47:39] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:47:43] <Mitchell> How many members at large are needed
[2008-01-30 19:47:48] <coldacid> let's first figure out the list of steering committee roles: chair, v-chair, secretary, legal advisor, 2 or 3 standing members?
[2008-01-30 19:47:52] <kibble> 3-5, i'd say, Mitchell 
[2008-01-30 19:47:56] * coldacid would limit it to 3 at most
[2008-01-30 19:48:02] <Mitchell> 3
[2008-01-30 19:48:07] <wknight8111> my thoughts on a treasurer? I don't think you need one quite yet
[2008-01-30 19:48:10] <HOTR> We are a wiki-based community, and it's important to have the discussion open to that community.
[2008-01-30 19:48:13] <Mitchell> And then there is an odd number of members :)
[2008-01-30 19:48:18] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:48:18] <Alan_Ca> Should we have a vote on the wiki?
[2008-01-30 19:48:21] <kibble> yes
[2008-01-30 19:48:29] <Alan_Ca> Wknight: Should we have a vote on the wiki?
[2008-01-30 19:48:32] <coldacid> lets iron out the list of roles before the vote
[2008-01-30 19:48:42] <kibble> * chair
[2008-01-30 19:48:43] <HOTR> coldacid: nod
[2008-01-30 19:48:44] <kibble> * v-chair
[2008-01-30 19:48:46] <kibble> * secretary
[2008-01-30 19:48:48] <kibble> * legal advisor
[2008-01-30 19:48:54] <kibble> * 3 members at large
[2008-01-30 19:48:55] <kibble> any others/
[2008-01-30 19:48:56] <HOTR> What does the vice-chair do?
[2008-01-30 19:49:07] <Shanel> Yeah kibble. :P
[2008-01-30 19:49:10] <coldacid> the same as any XO
[2008-01-30 19:49:11] <kibble> HOTR: acts in place of the chair? basically just another person who does stuff?
[2008-01-30 19:49:14] <Alan_Ca> I'm sorry guys
[2008-01-30 19:49:15] <coldacid> the go-to person
[2008-01-30 19:49:18] <Mitchell> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee
[2008-01-30 19:49:20] <wknight8111> i don't know that I have a preference on how/where you vote
[2008-01-30 19:49:21] <Alan_Ca> I don't think this is going to work?
[2008-01-30 19:49:29] <kibble> Alan_Ca: why not?
[2008-01-30 19:49:32] <Mitchell> I still need to add text
[2008-01-30 19:49:34] * coldacid thinks its working fine
[2008-01-30 19:49:48] <Alan_Ca> These projects succeed and fail based on committment
[2008-01-30 19:49:53] <Alan_Ca> Passing by does not make this happen
[2008-01-30 19:50:03] <Alan_Ca> We can let people who are passing by vote
[2008-01-30 19:50:10] <Alan_Ca> But their vote doesn't count for much if they are not involved
[2008-01-30 19:50:11] <coldacid> Mitchell: im going to make that list into noms?
[2008-01-30 19:50:22] <Mitchell> Yep
[2008-01-30 19:50:24] <HOTR> coldacid: Yes
[2008-01-30 19:51:19] <Alan_Ca> I don't believe people who are not in attendance should be voting
[2008-01-30 19:51:34] <HOTR> Alan_Ca: We don't need to be endlessly inclusive. But this won't work if we can't include people who are on-wiki.
[2008-01-30 19:51:36] <kibble> Mitchell: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee what looks better?
[2008-01-30 19:51:39] <kibble> that or headers?
[2008-01-30 19:51:47] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca there are *always* extenuating circumstances - hell I wanted to be here for the prelim meeting the other day, and I apologise for not being there but I was curled up in bed in excruciating pain because I'm sick and couldn't type well enough to join the channel. An on-wiki vote takes illness and time zones and people who can't use IRC into consideration. 
[2008-01-30 19:51:47] <Shanel> We could simply ask people who were not in attendance not to vote.
[2008-01-30 19:51:56] <Mitchell> I prrefer headers
[2008-01-30 19:52:00] <kibble> k
[2008-01-30 19:52:01] <Mitchell> *prefer
[2008-01-30 19:52:16] <wknight8111> voting should only be open during the course of this meeting then. That way, you have a result before you leave here
[2008-01-30 19:52:27] <Alan_Ca> I can live with that
[2008-01-30 19:52:35] <HOTR> wknight8111: Good idea
[2008-01-30 19:52:36] * BDerksen approves of taking sickness into consideration
[2008-01-30 19:52:56] <Ayelie> Some people can't or don't' use IRC but will be very helpful through mailing lists and email communication - we can't disclude them because of things beyond their control
[2008-01-30 19:52:57] <HOTR> It's important to have this process transparent
[2008-01-30 19:53:00] <Ktsquare> what do the standing members do? Their task is not mentioned on Greeves' bylaw layout
[2008-01-30 19:53:03] <Ayelie> plus look at poor Zirland, it's about 3am for him :P
[2008-01-30 19:53:06] <Alan_Ca> Bderksen: This group will not run WIkimedia CAnada, it is just a group to get it formed
[2008-01-30 19:53:07] <Mitchell> Assists
[2008-01-30 19:53:32] <coldacid> Ktsquare: for now that's just for the steering committee
[2008-01-30 19:53:34] <HOTR> Ktsquare: Hang on with bylaw discussions -- we're just talking about getting the organisation part going
[2008-01-30 19:53:46] <wknight8111> Where are the current version of the bylaws? I can give them a quick read-over while you guys figure out the voting
[2008-01-30 19:53:59] <yanstheman> I think Alan's got a point, that doing it all on the Wiki can slow things down. It also takes effort to coordinate people across different mediums...
[2008-01-30 19:54:00] <Alan_Ca> wknight: last update HOTR was going to have them reviewed and consolidated
[2008-01-30 19:54:20] <coldacid> wknight8111: which version in particular?
[2008-01-30 19:54:29] <Mitchell> Please add your name to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee !
[2008-01-30 19:54:35] <HOTR> wknight8111: Ec's version is more detailed, but tommorrow I'm hoping to refactor Greeves and EC's and highlight anything that might be missing
[2008-01-30 19:54:55] <wknight8111> HOTR, okay. Just let me know when you get finished, so I can read them over
[2008-01-30 19:55:10] <wknight8111> i can give responses much more quickly then the entire chapcom can
[2008-01-30 19:55:17] <kibble> okay, so, please add your names to Steering Committee like Mitchell just said
[2008-01-30 19:55:18] <Alan_Ca> Thanks WKnight
[2008-01-30 19:55:31] <Ayelie> What does the position of "members-at-large" entail?
[2008-01-30 19:55:33] <Alan_Ca> Ok, do we have someone who is bilingual in french and english?
[2008-01-30 19:55:36] <Mitchell> If nobody wants to be vice, I can remove my name from secretary.
[2008-01-30 19:55:37] <kibble> we need a vice-chair and at least one other member at large person
[2008-01-30 19:55:38] <HOTR> wknight8111: Sure ... they will be on the link off the WM Canada page on Meta
[2008-01-30 19:55:39] <kibble> Alan_Ca: pathos
[2008-01-30 19:55:43] <Mitchell> I have fairly good french
[2008-01-30 19:55:47] <coldacid> Ayelie: ground troops :)
[2008-01-30 19:55:51] <kibble> Mitchell is fr-3
[2008-01-30 19:55:55] <Shanel> Ayelie too. :D
[2008-01-30 19:55:57] <Mitchell> I'm not good at writing in French, however.
[2008-01-30 19:56:17] <Ayelie> I can translate from French into English fluently but my English -> French is substantially lower :P
[2008-01-30 19:56:21] * carl is fr-2 or so
[2008-01-30 19:56:28] * Shanel is a lowly fr-2.
[2008-01-30 19:56:29] <Ayelie> and with a decided Gatineau twist.
[2008-01-30 19:56:30] <slavie|away> Oui?
[2008-01-30 19:56:35] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-01-30 19:56:35] <Mitchell> I'm the same as Ayelie
[2008-01-30 19:56:36] <coldacid> members-at-large interface with others interested in chapter formation and provide their views and input to the rest of the committee
[2008-01-30 19:56:44] <Shanel> slavie|away: You are our translation slave.
[2008-01-30 19:56:48] <slavie|away> :O
[2008-01-30 19:56:49] <kibble> :-)
[2008-01-30 19:56:50] <Alan_Ca> Maybe not tonight, but I would like to expand the steering committee later to include a communications role
[2008-01-30 19:56:57] <wknight8111> "members at large" = "adviser"?
[2008-01-30 19:57:04] <kibble> something of the sort
[2008-01-30 19:57:04] <Alan_Ca> A English -> french role
[2008-01-30 19:57:14] <Mitchell> Translator?
[2008-01-30 19:57:21] * Shanel nominates slavie|away.
[2008-01-30 19:57:24] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca good idea, someone dedicated to that task would be a great asset
[2008-01-30 19:57:29] <kibble> either slavie|away or Arria
[2008-01-30 19:57:30] <coldacid> yes
[2008-01-30 19:57:42] <HOTR> We have a few people that can translate ... we do need some outreach into francaphone areas though.
[2008-01-30 19:58:03] <Alan_Ca> So I would like the creation of a board position for English -> French liason
[2008-01-30 19:58:07] <HOTR> It would be nice to have someone here who is, or at least when we form the full chapter.
[2008-01-30 19:58:09] <coldacid> that ain't me... i can't speak french at all
[2008-01-30 19:58:26] <coldacid> why not just require the communications member to be bilingual?
[2008-01-30 19:58:51] <Ayelie> arria would be an asset but she's in great demand as she's also fluent in Spanish and Italian ;) I'm not sure she could devote herself to an "official" position with us
[2008-01-30 19:58:52] <Alan_Ca> Whatever we call the role
[2008-01-30 19:59:00] <Alan_Ca> I think the francophones need a rep on the committee
[2008-01-30 19:59:23] <Alan_Ca> Members at large are simply committee members who do not have a specified role
[2008-01-30 19:59:24] <Mitchell> kibble: your name is down twice
[2008-01-30 19:59:27] <Shanel> slavie|away again. ;)
[2008-01-30 19:59:37] <kibble> Mitchell: I just saw that O_O
[2008-01-30 19:59:40] * kibble stabs yanstheman :-P
[2008-01-30 19:59:40] <HOTR> Ayelie: Arria Bell? She said she'd help or get someone to. I have friends at WV.FR, so getting stuff translated isn't a big deal.
[2008-01-30 19:59:42] * Shanel thinks he is the sole person from Quebec here. O_O
[2008-01-30 19:59:43] <yanstheman> that's me... i'm nominating kibble
[2008-01-30 19:59:44] * slavie|away does not want to be on another committee. :)
[2008-01-30 19:59:49] <Shanel> slavie|away: Too bad.
[2008-01-30 19:59:52] <slavie|away> :(
[2008-01-30 19:59:59] <kibble> Mitchell: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee&diff=prev&oldid=857328 ;-)
[2008-01-30 20:00:01] <Ayelie> HOTR: ah, great. I didn't know she'd been asked already :)
[2008-01-30 20:00:03] <HOTR> Mitchell: Where is the page?
[2008-01-30 20:00:08] <Shanel> slavie|away: Well what if I am? :'(
[2008-01-30 20:00:13] <Mitchell> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee
[2008-01-30 20:00:15] <kibble> HOTR: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee
[2008-01-30 20:00:18] <yanstheman> i'm still figuring out how to vote :)
[2008-01-30 20:00:21] * kibble just sits back and relaxes for a second ;-)
[2008-01-30 20:00:22] <slavie|away> Shanel: Then volunteer. :)
[2008-01-30 20:00:26] <Mitchell> Just add your name under a heading
[2008-01-30 20:00:29] <Shanel> >:|
[2008-01-30 20:00:36] <Mitchell> Can you vote for yourself?
[2008-01-30 20:00:39] <Shanel> slavie|away: Pwetty please? :(
[2008-01-30 20:00:53] <coldacid> if there are more names under a role than positions available under that role, we'll need to elect
[2008-01-30 20:01:00] <HOTR> Mitchell: No :)
[2008-01-30 20:01:02] <coldacid> otherwise, its acclamation
[2008-01-30 20:01:21] <Alan_Ca> Agreed on the acclamation
[2008-01-30 20:02:02] <coldacid> who here is bilingual and able to take on a communication role, btw?
[2008-01-30 20:02:05] <coldacid> even if there's no preexisting role on the committee it's still good to have someone to do that on board
[2008-01-30 20:02:32] <kibble> coldacid: that's future though
[2008-01-30 20:02:39] <Alan_Ca> Is anyone interested in being our financial wizzard?
[2008-01-30 20:02:40] <kibble> like we can just use slavie|away as a slave for now
[2008-01-30 20:02:41] <slavie|away> Shanel: :(
[2008-01-30 20:02:47] <kibble> Alan_Ca: I don't think we need one right now
[2008-01-30 20:02:52] <kibble> later, when there's a chapter
[2008-01-30 20:02:57] <Mitchell> kibble: I agree
[2008-01-30 20:03:00] <HOTR> Yes, I agree. 
[2008-01-30 20:03:04] <coldacid> kibble: i know, but it's good to keep someone like that on the committee as a member at large or titled position
[2008-01-30 20:03:06] <slavie|away> I wouldn't mind helping out on my free time, but not on the committee. :)
[2008-01-30 20:03:07] <Alan_Ca> Ok, we can skip this for now
[2008-01-30 20:03:08] * kibble pokes Shanel / Ayelie / anyone else interested to sign up for "member-at-large"
[2008-01-30 20:03:15] <Shanel> :O
[2008-01-30 20:03:28] <Alan_Ca> Basically I'd like to formalize the role I am playing
[2008-01-30 20:03:38] <Alan_Ca> Beyond that I'm open to ammending the committee after future discussion
[2008-01-30 20:03:53] <Shanel> kibble: Added myself.
[2008-01-30 20:04:11] * kibble saw and supported already, Shanel :-P
[2008-01-30 20:04:22] <HOTR> ok .. let's leave the wikipage for now ... is there more on the agenda?
[2008-01-30 20:04:43] <Shanel> :D
[2008-01-30 20:04:50] <kibble> (everyone else feel free to vote during the meeting)
[2008-01-30 20:04:53] <Ayelie> oh pft, I keep getting edit conflicts
[2008-01-30 20:05:02] <Alan_Ca> *no comment*
[2008-01-30 20:05:03] <Mitchell> And ywe need a member-at-large still!
[2008-01-30 20:05:06] <Mitchell> *we
[2008-01-30 20:05:21] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell: I don't we should be giving away positions
[2008-01-30 20:05:28] <kibble> HOTR: "official language" which we touched on
[2008-01-30 20:05:31] <Alan_Ca> I would rather have a group of committed people
[2008-01-30 20:05:33] <Ayelie> people! stop editing the page :P
[2008-01-30 20:05:37] <Ayelie> oh there we go I got it up finally.
[2008-01-30 20:05:38] <Mitchell> I'm just pointing out that we only have 2 interested
[2008-01-30 20:05:44] <Alan_Ca> Anyway, moving on
[2008-01-30 20:05:45] <kibble> membership fees --> I dont' think that's needed yhet
[2008-01-30 20:05:45] <Mitchell> And now we have 3
[2008-01-30 20:05:52] <Ayelie> Mitchell now there are 4 :)
[2008-01-30 20:05:55] <kibble> so now we have "frequency of meetings"
[2008-01-30 20:06:00] <kibble> when do we want a follow-up meeting?
[2008-01-30 20:06:10] <Alan_Ca> Let us continue with the agenda
[2008-01-30 20:06:20] <Alan_Ca> We have 3 draft bylaw sets
[2008-01-30 20:06:21] <kibble> argh, now I don't know who to vote for :-P
[2008-01-30 20:06:36] <Alan_Ca> wknight, did you peek at them at all?
[2008-01-30 20:06:43] <wknight8111> the bylaws? yes
[2008-01-30 20:06:54] <Alan_Ca> Does any one of the 3 stand out to you as better?
[2008-01-30 20:07:07] <Alan_Ca> I would like to pick one to work from and move forward
[2008-01-30 20:07:11] <wknight8111> I only saw two
[2008-01-30 20:07:20] <Alan_Ca> I'm not asking in terms of a final draft, but just the best basis
[2008-01-30 20:07:30] <Alan_Ca> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Meeting/2008-01-30
[2008-01-30 20:07:30] <kibble> Alan_Ca: HOTR is planning on merging them all
[2008-01-30 20:07:42] <carl> Much seems to be the same between them, just minor differences on things like where to send the money if the chapter ceases operation?
[2008-01-30 20:07:45] <Alan_Ca> HOTR: When will we have a merge ready?
[2008-01-30 20:08:37] <kibble> i think he' said he's palnning on doing it tmrw
[2008-01-30 20:08:41] * Mitchell nudges HOTR
[2008-01-30 20:08:52] <HOTR> I was hoping to have the template today, but I should have it by tomorrow. If the merge goes smoothly, I might be able to have the basis version tomorrow.
[2008-01-30 20:09:20] <Alan_Ca> Wknight, are you able to attend the same time next week?
[2008-01-30 20:09:20] <Mitchell> :)
[2008-01-30 20:09:31] <wknight8111> I can attend next week, yes
[2008-01-30 20:09:46] <Alan_Ca> HOTR: Can you send the final draft to the mailing list by friday?
[2008-01-30 20:10:06] <HOTR> I'll post it to the wiki with a link to the mail list, yes.
[2008-01-30 20:10:07] <coldacid> i should be able to make it next week too, but not the week after
[2008-01-30 20:10:18] <wknight8111> Just a note, you really need a "statement of purpose" like what is in Greeve's version. I notice that a similar passage is not present in the other draft
[2008-01-30 20:10:33] <carl> A mission statement?
[2008-01-30 20:10:37] <Mitchell> my statement of purpose was thought up in about 2 mins
[2008-01-30 20:10:49] <Alan_Ca> wknight, this is not an offical submission
[2008-01-30 20:10:52] <Mitchell> Will need changes
[2008-01-30 20:10:58] <Alan_Ca> I want to have a basis selected by next week
[2008-01-30 20:11:07] <HOTR> wknight8111: I'll make a note of that
[2008-01-30 20:11:09] <Alan_Ca> And I would like your comments generally on it
[2008-01-30 20:11:33] <Alan_Ca> There are some principles that will need to be debated over a few meetings to solidify our founding document
[2008-01-30 20:11:38] <wknight8111> I can definitely offer comments and suggestions
[2008-01-30 20:11:47] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so the plan in respect to bylaws
[2008-01-30 20:12:00] <Alan_Ca> HOTR will post the best consolidation he can do by Friday
[2008-01-30 20:12:18] <HOTR> cool.
[2008-01-30 20:12:27] <Alan_Ca> Wknight, will you review the document before the next meeting and prepare  discussion notes for the next meeting?
[2008-01-30 20:12:42] <wknight8111> I will
[2008-01-30 20:12:43] <Alan_Ca> Assuming HOTR posts this by Friday
[2008-01-30 20:12:48] <Alan_Ca> To be fair to you
[2008-01-30 20:12:51] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-01-30 20:12:54] <wknight8111> i can send notes to the mailing list, if they are available
[2008-01-30 20:12:55] <Alan_Ca> Excellent
[2008-01-30 20:13:05] <Alan_Ca> I prefer the comments to be made on the wiki
[2008-01-30 20:13:13] <Alan_Ca> and notice posted to the mailing list
[2008-01-30 20:13:27] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell can notify the mailing list
[2008-01-30 20:13:28] <wknight8111> that's fair too
[2008-01-30 20:13:47] <Alan_Ca> Ok, agreed, we can move on?
[2008-01-30 20:14:15] <Alan_Ca> Ok, moving on
[2008-01-30 20:14:17] <yanstheman> sounds fine
[2008-01-30 20:14:23] <HOTR> Yes ... next agenda item?
[2008-01-30 20:14:31] <Alan_Ca> Official languages
[2008-01-30 20:14:37] -->| OhanaUnited (n=andrewcl@CPE0050ba513598-CM0011e6be6565.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 20:14:38] <kibble> we touched on that
[2008-01-30 20:14:42] * kibble waves OhanaUnited
[2008-01-30 20:14:42] <Mitchell> OHANAUNITED!
[2008-01-30 20:14:46] <OhanaUnited> crap, i totally forgot
[2008-01-30 20:14:48] <OhanaUnited> what did i miss?
[2008-01-30 20:14:49] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v OhanaUnited  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 20:15:27] <OhanaUnited> the moment i read the email about the reminder, i forgot that it started -.-
[2008-01-30 20:15:34] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 20:15:38] <Alan_Ca> So in respect to languages
[2008-01-30 20:15:51] <Alan_Ca> Have we had any interest from individuals who cannot communicate in english?
[2008-01-30 20:16:01] * kibble thinks not
[2008-01-30 20:16:10] <Mitchell> Nope
[2008-01-30 20:16:24] <HOTR> There has been in the past, but not in 2008 that I'm aware
[2008-01-30 20:16:45] * HOTR has had some translated discussions in 2007
[2008-01-30 20:16:59] <carl> So listing a bunch of aboriginal languages would be overambitious at this point
[2008-01-30 20:17:06] <Alan_Ca> Ok, then I move we communicate in English and make it a goal to seek out a person able to translate to french to sit on the committee
[2008-01-30 20:17:16] <HOTR> Yes carl :)
[2008-01-30 20:17:37] <Mitchell> Unless anyone here is comfortable enough with their French...
[2008-01-30 20:17:38] <coldacid> i agree
[2008-01-30 20:17:46] <yanstheman> i agree with Alan
[2008-01-30 20:17:47] <HOTR> We can have the important on-wiki stuff translated
[2008-01-30 20:17:50] <OhanaUnited> hell no, i suck at french
[2008-01-30 20:17:58] <Alan_Ca> Alright moving forward
[2008-01-30 20:18:09] <Alan_Ca> I would like to have some preliminary discussion on membership fees
[2008-01-30 20:18:18] <HOTR> but our committee and the mailing list I assume will function in English for now.
[2008-01-30 20:18:36] =-= HOTR is now known as HistoryOnTheRoad
[2008-01-30 20:18:47] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell: Can you post all notices in both french and english?
[2008-01-30 20:18:57] <Mitchell> If someone can translate for me
[2008-01-30 20:19:07] <Alan_Ca> Ok, we will make those translations at best effort
[2008-01-30 20:19:09] <Mitchell> I don't have the good grammar in Frencg
[2008-01-30 20:19:12] <Mitchell> *French
[2008-01-30 20:19:16] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-01-30 20:19:19] <Mitchell> or the style
[2008-01-30 20:19:20] <Alan_Ca> In respect to user fees
[2008-01-30 20:19:35] <Alan_Ca> I believe we should charge a fee to become a voting member of the organization
[2008-01-30 20:19:40] <Mitchell> Indeed
[2008-01-30 20:20:02] <Alan_Ca> How much I am not certain, but it stands to reason that if you are interested enough to vote, you should be able to find some money for a tax deductible donation
[2008-01-30 20:20:32] <coldacid> at what minimum amount?
[2008-01-30 20:20:33] <Alan_Ca> In this respect I am referring to the corporation, not the steering committee
[2008-01-30 20:20:40] <wknight8111> dues can help to weed-out inactive members, and can provide a baseline income
[2008-01-30 20:21:14] <Alan_Ca> in terms of setting a fee, I would like to get some static input on that... as in on the wiki
[2008-01-30 20:21:21] <coldacid> ok
[2008-01-30 20:21:23] <OhanaUnited> so how long will the steering committee last?
[2008-01-30 20:21:45] <Alan_Ca> The steering committee goal will be to complete the formation of the corporation before the end of 2008
[2008-01-30 20:21:56] <OhanaUnited> i c
[2008-01-30 20:22:13] <Alan_Ca> At which time it will be abolished and elections will be held amongst voting members for the board of directors
[2008-01-30 20:22:15] <Ktsquare> Do we need any translation other than English and French?
[2008-01-30 20:22:26] <Mitchell> Probably not
[2008-01-30 20:22:33] <OhanaUnited> don't think so, those are the official languages of Canada
[2008-01-30 20:22:52] <Ktsquare> I was thinking aboringinal
[2008-01-30 20:22:53] <HistoryOnTheRoad> There was some question as to whether membership fees were tax-deductible, fwiw
[2008-01-30 20:22:59] <yanstheman> other languages may be hard to keep translating to without a large body of translators
[2008-01-30 20:23:06] <Ktsquare> ok
[2008-01-30 20:23:18] <Alan_Ca> HOTR: Membership fees are only tax deductible if the corporation reaches charity status
[2008-01-30 20:23:20] <OhanaUnited> i can deal with chinese translations 
[2008-01-30 20:23:55] <carl> Presumably, there will be some cost to get incorporated and charitable status first.
[2008-01-30 20:23:59] <SWATJester> Charge 50 canadian dollars a year to be a voting member.
[2008-01-30 20:24:05] <kibble> O_O
[2008-01-30 20:24:14] <kibble> well, that's a different discussion entirely ;-)
[2008-01-30 20:24:22] <OhanaUnited> i dont hav that deep pocket
[2008-01-30 20:24:26] <kibble> do we want membership fees or no?
[2008-01-30 20:24:28] <Alan_Ca> Mitch, I would like for you to establish a wiki page for comments regarding membership fees
[2008-01-30 20:24:31] <kibble> and how much?
[2008-01-30 20:24:33] <SWATJester> not that I know how much a canadian dollar is worth
[2008-01-30 20:24:35] <kibble> but 50 is high
[2008-01-30 20:24:35] <OhanaUnited> cant we decide membership fees later?
[2008-01-30 20:24:47] <SWATJester> kibble: you don't necessarily want a lot of voting members
[2008-01-30 20:24:48] <OhanaUnited> $50 CAD = $50 USD
[2008-01-30 20:24:49] <kibble> OhanaUnited: I would think
[2008-01-30 20:24:56] <kibble> SWATJester: I disagree
[2008-01-30 20:25:04] <Alan_Ca> Keep in mind we need money to make this happen
[2008-01-30 20:25:17] <kibble> normally voting members would be the general assembly
[2008-01-30 20:25:22] <Alan_Ca> and $50 * 20 is only $1000.00
[2008-01-30 20:25:25] <kibble> and then they'd do things like elect the board
[2008-01-30 20:25:29] <SWATJester> kibble: first you're going to need income. Second, with a lot of voting members, you're going to need some place to host them for your annual meeting.
[2008-01-30 20:25:32] <carl> 1 USD =  	0.99546 CAD
[2008-01-30 20:25:56] <Alan_Ca> Anyway
[2008-01-30 20:25:56] <OhanaUnited> no carl, it's above par today
[2008-01-30 20:25:56] <Alan_Ca> All tangental
[2008-01-30 20:26:03] <Alan_Ca> We can discuss the fee issue on the wiki
[2008-01-30 20:26:07] <OhanaUnited> wait, that's above par, nvm
[2008-01-30 20:26:12] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Yes
[2008-01-30 20:26:18] <Alan_Ca> So in wrapping this up
[2008-01-30 20:26:23] <Alan_Ca> HOTR will have draft bylaws by Friday
[2008-01-30 20:26:30] <OhanaUnited> one more... what's the meeting frequency?
[2008-01-30 20:26:30] <Alan_Ca> Wknight of chapcomm will review them for the next meeting
[2008-01-30 20:26:39] <coldacid> did we cover frequency of meetings yet? that's on the agenda too
[2008-01-30 20:26:50] <Mitchell> [[m:Wikimedia Canada/Membership fees]]
[2008-01-30 20:26:52] <Alan_Ca> I think it's premature to establish a frequency
[2008-01-30 20:27:03] <carl> So someone needs to show up at a lawyer's office with $1000 and a set of bylaws at some point? Or do we have someone who knows the procedures to set this up?
[2008-01-30 20:27:21] <yanstheman> can we establish the time of the next meeting?
[2008-01-30 20:27:30] <Alan_Ca> Yes
[2008-01-30 20:27:30] <Mitchell> How bout next week, same time
[2008-01-30 20:27:33] <Mitchell> ?
[2008-01-30 20:27:37] <yanstheman> that sounds resonable
[2008-01-30 20:27:42] <OhanaUnited> ditto
[2008-01-30 20:27:43] <Alan_Ca> Yes
[2008-01-30 20:27:44] <HistoryOnTheRoad> I think we should have meetings as frequently as needed, possibly weekly ... but no point in setting schedules until we see what needs doing.
[2008-01-30 20:27:47] <Ktsquare> I can deal with Chinese translation if needed.
[2008-01-30 20:27:51] <OhanaUnited> ok, just before the meeting wraps up
[2008-01-30 20:28:09] <Mitchell> Yes?
[2008-01-30 20:28:18] <OhanaUnited> i would like to express my interest in vice-chair position (although my 1st thought was secretary)
[2008-01-30 20:28:29] <Ktsquare> Do we have a lawyer among our committee?
[2008-01-30 20:28:37] <HistoryOnTheRoad> OhanaUnited: Add yourself to the wikipage :)
[2008-01-30 20:28:45] <Mitchell> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee
[2008-01-30 20:28:50] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Ktsquare: No. But we'll probably hire one.
[2008-01-30 20:28:53] <OhanaUnited> ok, thx
[2008-01-30 20:28:56] <Mitchell> OhanaUnited, just add your name
[2008-01-30 20:29:06] <Alan_Ca> OhanaUnited: Are you 18+?
[2008-01-30 20:29:15] <kibble> OhanaUnited: feel free :-)
[2008-01-30 20:29:17] * OhanaUnited punches Mitchell for taking my position
[2008-01-30 20:29:22] <yanstheman> when does voting conclude?
[2008-01-30 20:29:22] * Mitchell laughs
[2008-01-30 20:29:29] * yanstheman laughs
[2008-01-30 20:29:30] <OhanaUnited> yes, i'm 19 and can drink legally =P
[2008-01-30 20:29:31] <coldacid> midnight PST?
[2008-01-30 20:29:32] <kibble> yanstheman: end of meeting
[2008-01-30 20:29:35] <Alan_Ca> excellent
[2008-01-30 20:29:36] <kibble> or after
[2008-01-30 20:29:47] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 20:30:14] <Alan_Ca> Close the voting mitchell, is thre some kind of meta thing someone can do to lock editing that voting page?
[2008-01-30 20:30:19] <Mitchell> Yes
[2008-01-30 20:30:26] <Mitchell> I am not adn admin though
[2008-01-30 20:30:29] <Mitchell> *an admin
[2008-01-30 20:30:30] <carl> any admin can protect a page
[2008-01-30 20:30:33] <HistoryOnTheRoad> We could allow voting until tomorrow at this time ... but I doubt we'll get many more voices. Maybe a few though.
[2008-01-30 20:30:39] <wknight8111> It looks like you guys have the basic steering committee, "members at large" are not supported as enthusiastically
[2008-01-30 20:30:46] <kibble> Mitchell: I'll do it
[2008-01-30 20:30:46] <Mitchell> We  don't need to protect the page.
[2008-01-30 20:30:49] <yanstheman> i still need to vote
[2008-01-30 20:30:53] <Mitchell> A notice should be finw
[2008-01-30 20:30:54] <OhanaUnited> same here
[2008-01-30 20:30:55] <Mitchell> *fine
[2008-01-30 20:30:56] <OhanaUnited> i just got on
[2008-01-30 20:31:02] <kibble> just wait soon :-)
[2008-01-30 20:31:09] <Mitchell> And let's close it in an hour or two
[2008-01-30 20:31:13] <carl> it's only 6:30pm for some in this country, so maybe a wee bit early to lock the page?
[2008-01-30 20:31:30] <OhanaUnited> how about... give it 24 hour?
[2008-01-30 20:31:38] <Alan_Ca> Guys
[2008-01-30 20:31:42] <OhanaUnited> ends on tomorrow at 8pm (EST)?
[2008-01-30 20:31:44] <Alan_Ca> The meeting was at 20:00 EST
[2008-01-30 20:31:53] <Alan_Ca> It's now 21:30
[2008-01-30 20:31:57] <kibble> 8pm (EST) = 20:00 EST
[2008-01-30 20:31:59] <Alan_Ca> The meeting was announced for 2 weeks
[2008-01-30 20:32:12] <Mitchell> Let's close at 23:00 maybe
[2008-01-30 20:32:12] <Alan_Ca> You snooze; you lose
[2008-01-30 20:32:15] <Alan_Ca> We need to get this moving
[2008-01-30 20:32:26] <Alan_Ca> I don't want people voting who were not here
[2008-01-30 20:32:47] <OhanaUnited> that's true
[2008-01-30 20:33:07] <coldacid> when's our next meeting btw
[2008-01-30 20:33:13] <Alan_Ca> Same time, next week
[2008-01-30 20:33:15] <HistoryOnTheRoad> coldacid: Next week, same time
[2008-01-30 20:33:17] <Mitchell> :)
[2008-01-30 20:33:19] <OhanaUnited> ok, i'll do the templates
[2008-01-30 20:33:24] <coldacid> k
[2008-01-30 20:33:27] <OhanaUnited> i just "stole" it from WMHK
[2008-01-30 20:33:49] <Alan_Ca> Ohana: Mitchell is handling the maintenance of the docs
[2008-01-30 20:33:55] <Alan_Ca> Work through him if you want to change it
[2008-01-30 20:34:01] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Let's get an agenda and limit next week's meeting to 60 minutes.
[2008-01-30 20:34:10] <OhanaUnited> alright
[2008-01-30 20:34:28] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Mitchell: Do you have an agenda wikipage?
[2008-01-30 20:34:47] <Mitchell> Yes
[2008-01-30 20:34:48] <Alan_Ca> agreed HOTR
[2008-01-30 20:34:57] <carl> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Meetings/2008-01-30 was the agenda page AFAIK
[2008-01-30 20:35:08] <OhanaUnited> ktsquare, how come you removed me from vice-chair candidate?
[2008-01-30 20:35:09] <Alan_Ca> Committee members please communicate your agenda suggestions to Mitch
[2008-01-30 20:35:10] <HistoryOnTheRoad> carl: For this meeting. :)
[2008-01-30 20:35:17] <carl> true
[2008-01-30 20:35:19] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-01-30 20:35:21] <HistoryOnTheRoad> I meant for the next one
[2008-01-30 20:35:25] <Alan_Ca> Who nominated ohana for Vice chair?
[2008-01-30 20:35:39] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Alan_Ca: He asked in channel.
[2008-01-30 20:35:47] <Alan_Ca> I think we need a nomination
[2008-01-30 20:35:51] <Alan_Ca> Vice chair is an important role
[2008-01-30 20:36:00] <Alan_Ca> Does anyone know ohana?
[2008-01-30 20:36:04] <OhanaUnited> Cbcrown removed himself (http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Canada%2FSteering_Committee&diff=857372&oldid=857353)
[2008-01-30 20:36:23] <Alan_Ca> Ok, I move that we leave the vice chair position open for now
[2008-01-30 20:36:35] <OhanaUnited> sure
[2008-01-30 20:36:46] <OhanaUnited> i'll wait for ktsquare to get back to me
[2008-01-30 20:36:58] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so we will close the vote for tonight
[2008-01-30 20:37:03] <Ktsquare> I am getting edit conflict
[2008-01-30 20:37:12] <Ktsquare> what's up ohana?
[2008-01-30 20:37:13] <Alan_Ca> We will post two weeks notice by list serv
[2008-01-30 20:37:26] <Alan_Ca> of the election for vice chair
[2008-01-30 20:37:32] <OhanaUnited> ok
[2008-01-30 20:37:46] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 20:38:11] <Alan_Ca> I would like to have a brief moderated meeting with the steering committee
[2008-01-30 20:38:21] <Mitchell> Indeed
[2008-01-30 20:38:28] <Mitchell> If needed
[2008-01-30 20:38:31] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell, can you put the channel +m and voice only the com members and wknight
[2008-01-30 20:38:44] <Mitchell> Are we all okay for the night, then
[2008-01-30 20:38:46] <Mitchell> ?
[2008-01-30 20:38:56] <Alan_Ca> A brief discussion about agenda for the next meeting
[2008-01-30 20:39:05] <ChanServ> kibble!n=chatzill@wikimedia/Cbrown1023 enabled notices of #wikimedia-ca access list changes
[2008-01-30 20:39:12] <ChanServ> kibble!n=chatzill@wikimedia/Cbrown1023 ACCESS [#wikimedia-ca] ADD Alan_Ca 10
[2008-01-30 20:39:20] <kibble> Alan_Ca: now you can do it yourself ;-)
[2008-01-30 20:39:22] <Ktsquare> So every voter and candidate check their own edit before this meeting ends. Save the edit conflict
[2008-01-30 20:39:33] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +o Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 20:39:37] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -v Az1568  by Mitchell
[2008-01-30 20:39:47] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -v yanstheman  by Mitchell
[2008-01-30 20:40:31] <HistoryOnTheRoad> I have to step away for a bit, but will stay in channel and try to catch up 
[2008-01-30 20:40:38] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -v BDerksen  by Mitchell
[2008-01-30 20:41:53] <coldacid> given there's five noms for member-at-large and three seats, we should figure out a solution
[2008-01-30 20:42:08] <coldacid> three with most votes? and how about people voting for themselves?
[2008-01-30 20:42:11] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Ayelie  by Mitchell
[2008-01-30 20:42:23] <Mitchell> no self votes probably
[2008-01-30 20:42:33] <Ayelie> tahnks Mitchell  :)
[2008-01-30 20:42:34] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 20:42:40] <Alan_Ca> this is running on
[2008-01-30 20:42:43] <Alan_Ca> So let's do this
[2008-01-30 20:43:34] <Alan_Ca> I didn't want the wiki vote
[2008-01-30 20:43:42] <Alan_Ca> now it's a mess
[2008-01-30 20:43:46] <Alan_Ca> I'm moving on
[2008-01-30 20:44:00] <Alan_Ca> We will discuss the matter of Vice Chair and members at large next week
[2008-01-30 20:44:18] <wknight8111> good idea
[2008-01-30 20:44:22] <OhanaUnited> sure
[2008-01-30 20:44:29] <Mitchell> should I +m?
[2008-01-30 20:44:33] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-01-30 20:44:34] <OhanaUnited> i still need to wait for ktsquare to get back
[2008-01-30 20:44:38] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +m  by Mitchell
[2008-01-30 20:44:42] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-01-30 20:44:51] <Alan_Ca> Do you have the agenda page for next week up Mitch?
[2008-01-30 20:44:55] <Mitchell> nope
[2008-01-30 20:44:57] <Mitchell> not as of yet
[2008-01-30 20:44:58] <OhanaUnited> because he removed me off the vice-chair candidate list without any reason (http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Canada%2FSteering_Committee&diff=857393&oldid=857392)
[2008-01-30 20:45:07] <Mitchell> O_O
[2008-01-30 20:45:10] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -o Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 20:45:14] <kibble> OhanaUnited: I think he had editing problems
[2008-01-30 20:45:28] <kibble> he probably edited an out-of-date revision
[2008-01-30 20:45:58] <Alan_Ca> Last time
[2008-01-30 20:46:12] <Alan_Ca> The VC and Members at large issue: next week
[2008-01-30 20:46:28] <--| slavie|away has left #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 20:46:28] <OhanaUnited> kibble: do u mind if i'll talk to you in private channel regarding about this?
[2008-01-30 20:46:36] -->| Pathoschild (n=pathos@wikimedia/Pathoschild) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-01-30 20:46:42] <Alan_Ca> Ohana
[2008-01-30 20:46:45] <Alan_Ca> Mitch
[2008-01-30 20:46:47] <Alan_Ca> Set mode -v ohana
[2008-01-30 20:46:57] <kibble> OhanaUnited: pm works
[2008-01-30 20:47:09] <kibble> Alan_Ca: he's on the steer committee vote page, isn't he?
[2008-01-30 20:47:19] <Mitchell> my thoughts eactly
[2008-01-30 20:47:21] <Mitchell> *exactly
[2008-01-30 20:47:34] <kibble> okay whatever, leave it and we'll move on with Alan_Ca 
[2008-01-30 20:47:36] <Alan_Ca> There is controversy over members at large and VC
[2008-01-30 20:47:44] <Alan_Ca> That is for next week
[2008-01-30 20:47:47] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Pathoschild  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 20:48:03] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 20:48:18] <Alan_Ca> So, the other item for business will be to hear Wknight's comments on the bylaw draft
[2008-01-30 20:48:29] <Alan_Ca> He will be reviewing it only for general content, not finer details 
[2008-01-30 20:48:44] <Alan_Ca> He will be commenting if he sees anything in our first draft that is not acceptable in his eyes to chap comm
[2008-01-30 20:48:51] <Alan_Ca> only the most obtrusive and obvious
[2008-01-30 20:48:54] <Alan_Ca> Is that ok with you Wknight?
[2008-01-30 20:49:02] <wknight8111> that's fine. Details aren't important really
[2008-01-30 20:49:07] <Alan_Ca> right
[2008-01-30 20:49:14] <wknight8111> because canadians know best how to govern WMF Canada
[2008-01-30 20:49:15] <Alan_Ca> So comments from Wknight on bylaw draft
[2008-01-30 20:49:27] <Alan_Ca> ok mitch?
[2008-01-30 20:49:57] <Mitchell> vchair, members AL, wknight's bylaws,
[2008-01-30 20:50:08] <Mitchell> all for next week
[2008-01-30 20:50:11] <Alan_Ca> Wknights bylaw comments
[2008-01-30 20:50:20] <Alan_Ca> I think it's important that our language is careful
[2008-01-30 20:50:28] <Alan_Ca> Wknight is not here to tell us how to form this charity
[2008-01-30 20:50:32] <wknight8111> he's paraphrasing
[2008-01-30 20:50:32] <Alan_Ca> He is only here to give us guidance
[2008-01-30 20:50:36] <Mitchell> I was just putting it in jot form here
[2008-01-30 20:50:39] <Alan_Ca> Right, but I want to be clear on that
[2008-01-30 20:50:42] <Mitchell> ok
[2008-01-30 20:50:43] <Alan_Ca> ok no problem
[2008-01-30 20:50:46] <Alan_Ca> Just to be clear.
[2008-01-30 20:51:00] <Alan_Ca> Does anyone object to the meeting time of 60 minutes?
[2008-01-30 20:51:10] <OhanaUnited> to limit the meeting time?
[2008-01-30 20:51:14] <kibble> no
[2008-01-30 20:51:16] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-01-30 20:51:26] <Alan_Ca> Next issue
[2008-01-30 20:51:34] <Alan_Ca> Will we allow outsiders to have voice in our meeting?
[2008-01-30 20:51:43] <kibble> why not just -m? :-)
[2008-01-30 20:51:53] <Alan_Ca> I would like to keep the meeting focusses
[2008-01-30 20:51:56] <Alan_Ca> focussed
[2008-01-30 20:52:00] <OhanaUnited> i would say... not now
[2008-01-30 20:52:07] <OhanaUnited> until WMC is formally created
[2008-01-30 20:52:17] <kibble> Alan_Ca: I don't think the +m is helping that :-)
[2008-01-30 20:52:39] <Alan_Ca> ok, I would like suggestions on how we can keep the meeting efficient
[2008-01-30 20:52:53] <kibble> Alan_Ca: (i.e. the people who are prohibited from speaking now weren't being unfocused)
[2008-01-30 20:52:59] <Alan_Ca> I prefer to have regular on schedule meetings than long irregular ones
[2008-01-30 20:53:04] <Ayelie> have voice yes, important votes and such no. Outside opinions and such are helpful rather than a hindrance.
[2008-01-30 20:53:17] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-01-30 20:53:29] <Alan_Ca> I'm going to throw that thought out there, we will have to see how it goes
[2008-01-30 20:53:30] * HistoryOnTheRoad peeks back in
[2008-01-30 20:53:59] <Alan_Ca> For the information of all involved, board meetings are usually restricted in the sense that board members only speak during meetings
[2008-01-30 20:53:59] * HistoryOnTheRoad agrees with Ayelie -- unless things get carried away, discussion can be useful.
[2008-01-30 20:54:07] <Mitchell> do we still need +m
[2008-01-30 20:54:10] <Mitchell> ?
[2008-01-30 20:54:14] * kibble nods
[2008-01-30 20:54:23] <kibble> Alan_Ca: but we can wait for that until later
[2008-01-30 20:54:25] <Alan_Ca> I prefer to keep the m
[2008-01-30 20:54:28] <Alan_Ca> for this discussion
[2008-01-30 20:54:32] <Alan_Ca> I would like to wrap this up
[2008-01-30 20:54:34] <kibble> well, it should be removed when the meeting is over
[2008-01-30 20:54:36] <Alan_Ca> So in terms of agenda
[2008-01-30 20:54:38] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-01-30 20:54:47] <wknight8111> there is a difference between a public and a private meeting
[2008-01-30 20:54:50] <Alan_Ca> Does anyone else have an item for agenda
[2008-01-30 20:54:58] <wknight8111> with the steering committee, this is a private meeting, but not all meetings need to be like this
[2008-01-30 20:55:09] <Mitchell> this is not private
[2008-01-30 20:55:15] <Mitchell> anyone can see it I think
[2008-01-30 20:55:16] <Alan_Ca> It's a public meeting
[2008-01-30 20:55:19] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-01-30 20:55:22] <Mitchell> they just can't talk
[2008-01-30 20:55:23] <wknight8111> well, "private" in the sense of who can talk
[2008-01-30 20:55:25] <Alan_Ca> But input is restricted to the committee
[2008-01-30 20:55:33] <HistoryOnTheRoad> I'd like to see us put together a target timeline
[2008-01-30 20:55:36] <Alan_Ca> This is a typical public corporation board meeting format
[2008-01-30 20:55:50] <Alan_Ca> HOTR: I think timeline is unrealistic by next meeting
[2008-01-30 20:56:05] <coldacid> i've got to bow out at this time, sorry
[2008-01-30 20:56:18] <OhanaUnited> bye
[2008-01-30 20:56:22] <coldacid> cya next week
[2008-01-30 20:56:25] |<-- coldacid has left irc.freenode.net ("Gir for President! Wheeeeeeee!!!!")
[2008-01-30 20:56:40] <kibble> okay, I'm off, later all
[2008-01-30 20:56:41] <OhanaUnited> the duty of secretary should include establishing a rough timeline prior to the meeting
[2008-01-30 20:56:50] <Alan_Ca> ok, so HOTR, I understand why you want the time line, but I don't think we will be able to fit that in to the 60 minutes
[2008-01-30 20:56:55] <kibble> Mitchell: please make sure you post a log and summary to the meeting page
[2008-01-30 20:56:57] <Mitchell> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/2008-02-06
[2008-01-30 20:56:59] <Mitchell> yep
[2008-01-30 20:57:02] <kibble> and post a link to the mailign list
[2008-01-30 20:57:04] <kibble> thanks all
[2008-01-30 20:57:07] <kibble> night
[2008-01-30 20:57:09] <HistoryOnTheRoad> OhanaUnited: I meant for establishing WM Canada, not running the meeting. :)
[2008-01-30 20:57:11] <Alan_Ca> night kibble
[2008-01-30 20:57:12] |<-- kibble has left irc.freenode.net ("sleep")
[2008-01-30 20:57:16] <Mitchell> also, do we log the "private" meeting
[2008-01-30 20:57:20] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-01-30 20:57:24] <Alan_Ca> it's a public meeting
[2008-01-30 20:57:30] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 20:57:30] <Mitchell> k
[2008-01-30 20:57:43] <Alan_Ca> So HOTR can we leave the timeline off the agenda from the next meeting?
[2008-01-30 20:57:45] <OhanaUnited> oh... that kind of timeline, yes, we need that
[2008-01-30 20:58:29] <HistoryOnTheRoad> I'd like a strategic timeline, at least .. if we can ... so that I can get a sense of how long this will take.
[2008-01-30 20:58:49] <wknight8111> a very basic timeline is maybe something people should work on over the week
[2008-01-30 20:59:00] <wknight8111> the chairman should maybe draft a breif outline for it
[2008-01-30 20:59:04] <wknight8111> brb
[2008-01-30 20:59:08] =-= wknight8111 is now known as wknight-away
[2008-01-30 20:59:20] <HistoryOnTheRoad> We don't need a concrete timeline ... but something that will allow us to see what should be going on when.
[2008-01-30 20:59:24] <Mitchell> Kibble stepped down
[2008-01-30 20:59:26] <Alan_Ca> I have no problem drafting an outline for the group, but I am not prepared to do that until we have the consolidated bylaw review
[2008-01-30 20:59:32] <OhanaUnited> we can have a very rough, like what month we should have progressed to which stage
[2008-01-30 20:59:40] <Mitchell> so do I need to mention vchair on the agenda?
[2008-01-30 20:59:57] <OhanaUnited> we dont need exact meetings
[2008-01-30 20:59:58] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Mitchell: Will he be speaking/presenting something?
[2008-01-30 21:00:16] <Mitchell> No, vchair as in the debate to who is vice chair
[2008-01-30 21:00:25] <Mitchell> we had 2 candidates
[2008-01-30 21:00:27] <Alan_Ca> just leave the vice chair thing out
[2008-01-30 21:00:29] <Mitchell> kk
[2008-01-30 21:00:40] <Alan_Ca> I don't want to get bogged down with that kind of stuff
[2008-01-30 21:00:53] <Alan_Ca> We will be in a better position to fill these roles when we see who volunteers
[2008-01-30 21:01:05] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-01-30 21:01:08] <Alan_Ca> So last point
[2008-01-30 21:01:27] <Alan_Ca> At 08:45 I would like to open the meeting to public input
[2008-01-30 21:01:49] <Alan_Ca> So 20:00 - 20:45 public, but restricted to committee speakers only
[2008-01-30 21:01:58] <Alan_Ca> 20:45 to 21:00 public input
[2008-01-30 21:02:25] <Alan_Ca> I need someone to second my idea
[2008-01-30 21:03:46] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca  I support that, we can get the official discussion out of the way before opening up other cans of worms
[2008-01-30 21:04:52] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so with that note I move to close the meeting and restore the channel to -m
[2008-01-30 21:05:34] =-= wknight-away is now known as wknight8111
[2008-01-30 21:05:56] <wknight8111> seconded
[2008-01-30 21:06:24] <OhanaUnited> that's fine with me
[2008-01-30 21:06:41] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +o Alan_Ca  by ChanServ
[2008-01-30 21:07:21] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -m  by Alan_Ca
[2008-01-30 21:08:04] <Alan_Ca> The channel is now open for anyone to chat
[2008-01-30 21:08:21] <Alan_Ca> Thank you everyone for your patience, I look forward to meeting with you all next Wednesday