Wikimedia Canada/Meetings/2008-02-13/Logs

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[2008-02-13 19:08:48] <Mitchell> For those not aware: is tonight's agenda
[2008-02-13 19:09:24] <Alan_Ca> So we're waiting on Ohana?
[2008-02-13 19:09:59] <Ayelie> I believe so, he should be back very soon
[2008-02-13 19:10:13] <HOTR> Has he checked in? 
[2008-02-13 19:10:32] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Alan_Ca  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:10:45] <HOTR> We can get started and let him catch up, as long as he has a scrolling IRC client
[2008-02-13 19:10:58] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v HOTR  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:11:09] <Ayelie> Perhaps we can start with the bylaw briefing? if no input is necessary for that
[2008-02-13 19:11:17] <Ayelie> leave discussion about the steering committee until he's returned
[2008-02-13 19:11:29] <Alan_Ca> I hate to delay, but Ohana is an important part of the meeting
[2008-02-13 19:11:40] <Alan_Ca> Did he say how long he was to be away?
[2008-02-13 19:11:41] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:11:48] <cary> okay, while we're still unmoderated, can I say: ow!
[2008-02-13 19:11:56] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v OhanaUnited|away  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:12:03] <cary> I mean, it looks great, but 
[2008-02-13 19:12:18] <Mitchell> WMF guidelines...
[2008-02-13 19:12:22] <cary> right....
[2008-02-13 19:12:28] <Ayelie> cary we're discussing that later
[2008-02-13 19:12:29] * kibble likes Ayelie 's and fits best with WMF guidelines
[2008-02-13 19:12:30] <HOTR> Sure, I'll start with the bylaw update
[2008-02-13 19:12:36] <Ayelie> I'm doing the logo speech later :)
[2008-02-13 19:12:39] <kibble> oh, you guys haven't seen that yet ;-)
[2008-02-13 19:12:45] <Mitchell> Logo is on the agenda :)
[2008-02-13 19:12:48] <Alan_Ca> HOTR we're waiting on Ohana
[2008-02-13 19:12:58] <kibble> * Users on #wikimedia-ca: +HOTR StephaneThibault wknight8111 +Alan_Ca cary kibble jansonvv +OhanaUnited|away +Mitchell idealites Az1568 Warpath @ChanServ Ayelie 
[2008-02-13 19:13:05] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca HOTR  can go ahead and give the update, OhanaUnited|away  can read when he returns?
[2008-02-13 19:13:13] <Ayelie> there's no input necessary if it's just an update
[2008-02-13 19:13:25] <Alan_Ca> I understand, but i want to give him 5 more minutes
[2008-02-13 19:13:53] <OhanaUnited|away> sry, i'm back
[2008-02-13 19:13:56] <Warpath> O_O
[2008-02-13 19:13:58] =-= OhanaUnited|away is now known as OhanaUnited
[2008-02-13 19:14:00] <Mitchell> :)
[2008-02-13 19:14:03] * Mitchell rejoices
[2008-02-13 19:14:11] <Ayelie> aha!
[2008-02-13 19:14:29] <OhanaUnited> thank god alan's here
[2008-02-13 19:14:50] <OhanaUnited> brb, off for 2 mins to go to some other place with stronger internet strength
[2008-02-13 19:14:50] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v wknight8111  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:14:54] <Alan_Ca> Ok, if someone with irc no how could put it plus M
[2008-02-13 19:14:56] |<-- OhanaUnited has left ()
[2008-02-13 19:15:00] <Alan_Ca> *know 
[2008-02-13 19:15:19] * cary points at kibble
[2008-02-13 19:15:26] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +o Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:15:29] <HOTR> Bylaws: I sent wikiknight a link to the copy, and he will comment on the talk page (he hasn't posted anything yet). Cbrown and another contrib have added comments so far
[2008-02-13 19:15:35] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +m  by Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:15:40] <Alan_Ca> Thanks Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:15:42] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -o Mitchell  by Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:15:49] <Alan_Ca> Thank you for attending everyone
[2008-02-13 19:16:05] <Alan_Ca> It's too bad that we lost ohana, but it seems his Internet can be hit or miss at the best of times
[2008-02-13 19:16:24] <Mitchell> :(
[2008-02-13 19:16:37] <Alan_Ca> WKnight, in respect to HOTRs comments, will you have an opportunity to review the bylaws at some point in the near future?
[2008-02-13 19:17:40] <Alan_Ca> ok, moving along :)
[2008-02-13 19:17:42] <HOTR> I've worked through a bit of the dead tree boilerplate, and have made some notes which I will be adding to the wikipages. It was my hope to have a lawyer friend just skim through it, and let me know if there were any "Woa there" problems, but he's not available until next week
[2008-02-13 19:18:08] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so HOTR we should expect something by the end of February?
[2008-02-13 19:18:54] <HOTR> Alan_Ca: Yes, wknight has been extremely helpful, and I appreciate him reviewing the bylaws. He has indicated that he will comment on them.
[2008-02-13 19:19:23] <HOTR> Alan_Ca: Yes, for end of february. 
[2008-02-13 19:19:32] <Mitchell> :)
[2008-02-13 19:19:34] <Alan_Ca> ok, I want to be careful not to task him with reviewing them frequently as I'm sure they will change as we have public discussion about some of the controversial components
[2008-02-13 19:20:02] <Alan_Ca> HOTR, can you identify any controversial components in the bylaws?
[2008-02-13 19:20:05] -->| OhanaUnited ( has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-02-13 19:20:07] <HOTR> I think that as is, they are shaping up pretty nicely. We still need to have more of a statement of purpose, but I'm not sure that is legally needed in the bylaws themselves.
[2008-02-13 19:20:09] <Alan_Ca> I know membership fees is one issue
[2008-02-13 19:20:19] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v OhanaUnited  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:20:26] <HOTR> I'm aiming to have them legal-ready in the next couple of weeks.
[2008-02-13 19:20:48] <Alan_Ca> HOTR, please be sure to ask about how we would deal with the membership fee in relation to launching the corporation
[2008-02-13 19:22:51] <Alan_Ca> Ok Hotr?
[2008-02-13 19:23:14] <HOTR> I will; but I'm quite sure that the actual fee should not be enshrined in the bylaws themselves. A reference to "a fee, if any", should be good enough.
[2008-02-13 19:23:41] <Alan_Ca> Hotr, I mean in terms of having the fee in place for the voting of the first official board of directors
[2008-02-13 19:24:04] <Alan_Ca> As in, I wish to have a fee instated as part of the formation process, if not in the bylaw text as an appendix
[2008-02-13 19:24:23] <Alan_Ca> But that is a point which we will debate, but I want to know if we decide to go that way how we would do that
[2008-02-13 19:24:42] <HOTR> Ok, I've made a note of it, and I will ask for clarification.
[2008-02-13 19:24:59] <Alan_Ca> Thank you
[2008-02-13 19:25:09] <Alan_Ca> The other pressing issue we have is that of the members at large
[2008-02-13 19:25:30] <Mitchell> Firstly, how many?
[2008-02-13 19:25:37] <Mitchell> I was thinking three.
[2008-02-13 19:26:00] <OhanaUnited> ditto
[2008-02-13 19:26:13] <OhanaUnited> but also 4
[2008-02-13 19:26:17] <OhanaUnited> either way...
[2008-02-13 19:26:22] <HOTR> How many nominations do we have?
[2008-02-13 19:26:32] <Alan_Ca> Ok, Ayelie wishes to join this discussion
[2008-02-13 19:26:34] <Mitchell> 4 so far I think
[2008-02-13 19:26:41] <Alan_Ca> Quick poll, is that fair?
[2008-02-13 19:26:54] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Ayelie  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:27:02] <Alan_Ca> ok, so it is done
[2008-02-13 19:27:12] <Alan_Ca> I wanted to say that I don't want to turn away volunteers
[2008-02-13 19:27:12] <Ayelie> Thank you :)
[2008-02-13 19:27:41] <HOTR> The steering committee should be a bit flexible ... we're here to get a job done, not get tied up too much on formalities, IMHO
[2008-02-13 19:27:41] <Alan_Ca> My reasoning for forming a committee is to try and keep a tightly focussed group together on starting the charity
[2008-02-13 19:28:39] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +o Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:28:41] <OhanaUnited> how about... 4 for now, and if we want to add more individuals, then it goes thru a vote inside steering committee
[2008-02-13 19:28:47] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -m  by Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:28:57] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -v Mitchell  by Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:29:03] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -o Mitchell  by Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:29:07] <kibble> :-D
[2008-02-13 19:29:10] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:29:12] <Mitchell> oops
[2008-02-13 19:29:18] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell, didn't someone resign from the list?
[2008-02-13 19:29:24] <Mitchell> Yes
[2008-02-13 19:29:27] <OhanaUnited> yes
[2008-02-13 19:29:36] <Mitchell>
[2008-02-13 19:29:39] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie, where are you located?
[2008-02-13 19:29:49] <Mitchell> coldacid resined from the race
[2008-02-13 19:29:53] <Ayelie> I'm in Waterloo at the moment
[2008-02-13 19:29:57] <Ayelie> I live in Ottawa usually.
[2008-02-13 19:30:09] <Alan_Ca> and you want to help out how?
[2008-02-13 19:30:36] <Mitchell> Current noms: Shanel, Pathoschild, Ayelie, and Ktsquare
[2008-02-13 19:30:46] <Ayelie> Any way I can :) I've designed the logo so far, I'm up for updating wiki pages and sending out notices of meetings, I can also do other graphic designs if we need letterheads etc.
[2008-02-13 19:30:59] <OhanaUnited> i support including all 4 current noms
[2008-02-13 19:31:10] <Alan_Ca> I don't have an issue, if they have a purpose
[2008-02-13 19:31:11] <cary> Shanel and Pathoschild are effectively a combined unit :)
[2008-02-13 19:31:12] <OhanaUnited> and if there're moe people wishing to help, they can contact steering committee
[2008-02-13 19:31:13] <Mitchell> I don't think we have a good graphic artist yet
[2008-02-13 19:31:26] * kibble poitns at Ayelie 
[2008-02-13 19:31:32] <Mitchell> exactly :)
[2008-02-13 19:31:34] <cary> (just my thoughts) so putting one on is like putting both of them on. :-)
[2008-02-13 19:31:34] <Ayelie> :D
[2008-02-13 19:31:39] <Alan_Ca> I don't know Ayelie, but she seems interested in handling that side of things
[2008-02-13 19:31:47] <HOTR> We could do 4 members at large ... the only thing I'd like to ensure is that we have one Francophone in that group (I think Pathos fits that in the current group)
[2008-02-13 19:32:00] <Ayelie> Cary and kibble can vouch for me, they know me well - if you need outside opinions ;)
[2008-02-13 19:32:00] <kibble> and Shanel is like fr-2 or so
[2008-02-13 19:32:05] <kibble> Ayelie, :-D
[2008-02-13 19:32:11] <Alan_Ca> but we don't need two people for that job
[2008-02-13 19:32:13] <cary> Pathos is definitely a bilingual
[2008-02-13 19:32:16] <Ayelie> Pathoschild is bilingual, he's in Quebec.
[2008-02-13 19:32:50] <Alan_Ca> Ok, well I move that we appoint Ayelie as the Web editor
[2008-02-13 19:33:05] <Alan_Ca> She seems to have skills in both official languages and a great interest in maintaining the project page
[2008-02-13 19:33:17] <Mitchell> Seconded as Webmaster
[2008-02-13 19:33:30] <HOTR> Ayelie: Is he Francophone? (We have some other fr+1 people on list/in here, but I think it would be good if we had a native speaker onboard)
[2008-02-13 19:33:31] <Alan_Ca> Any opposition?
[2008-02-13 19:33:33] <Ayelie> Pathoschild is also a html/css guru, I believe he was designing the main page - we can work together on that front
[2008-02-13 19:33:42] <Ayelie> so he can do the French portions with me.
[2008-02-13 19:33:43] <cary> Pathoschild is a native bilingual
[2008-02-13 19:33:49] <Ayelie> I think that will work out perfectly
[2008-02-13 19:33:50] <Mitchell>
[2008-02-13 19:33:53] <cary> both languages
[2008-02-13 19:33:57] <Mitchell> I started a but of something
[2008-02-13 19:33:59] <Mitchell> *bit
[2008-02-13 19:34:06] <Mitchell> For the project page
[2008-02-13 19:34:12] <Alan_Ca> Well I am uncomforable appointing people who are not present
[2008-02-13 19:34:20] <cary> I'm looking for him
[2008-02-13 19:34:20] <Alan_Ca> as attendance is a big part of workin on this team
[2008-02-13 19:34:28] <Alan_Ca> Possibly we could discuss that possibility at another time
[2008-02-13 19:34:34] <kibble> Alan_Ca, well, they were here for the other meetings
[2008-02-13 19:34:47] <kibble> their schedules probalby had a conflict
[2008-02-13 19:34:48] <Alan_Ca> Right, but I'm not comfortable giving them a position while they are absent
[2008-02-13 19:34:52] <Alan_Ca> That's fine
[2008-02-13 19:34:55] <Alan_Ca> But they are not here now
[2008-02-13 19:35:05] <Alan_Ca> Ohana, your thoughts?
[2008-02-13 19:35:06] <OhanaUnited> they have expressed interest in helping
[2008-02-13 19:35:10] <OhanaUnited> it's the thought that counts
[2008-02-13 19:35:14] <Alan_Ca> Not really
[2008-02-13 19:35:19] <Alan_Ca> It's the contribution that counts
[2008-02-13 19:35:25] <Alan_Ca> Thinking all day long will not get us any closer to our goal
[2008-02-13 19:35:27] <cary> I've sent word out.  He'll hopefully be here shortly.
[2008-02-13 19:35:33] <Alan_Ca> And assigning a position to someone is a big deal
[2008-02-13 19:35:47] <OhanaUnited> reword what i said, it's the contribution that counts
[2008-02-13 19:35:49] <Alan_Ca> In the sense that we have to make time during our meetings to solicit their opinion
[2008-02-13 19:36:03] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-02-13 19:36:25] <Alan_Ca> I move that we have defer any consideration of other committee members until they are present at a future meeting
[2008-02-13 19:36:30] <kibble> sure
[2008-02-13 19:36:31] -->| Pathoschild (n=Jesse@wikimedia/Pathoschild) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-02-13 19:36:35] <kibble> finally, Pathoschild 
[2008-02-13 19:36:38] <Ayelie> Speak of the devil
[2008-02-13 19:36:43] <kibble> and get shanel in here, she's not responding
[2008-02-13 19:36:45] * Pathoschild waves hello.
[2008-02-13 19:36:47] <cary> When I work, I work
[2008-02-13 19:36:53] <kibble> :-)
[2008-02-13 19:37:02] <Alan_Ca> Pathoschild, why were you absent from the meeting?
[2008-02-13 19:37:07] <Mitchell> And how about Ktsquare?
[2008-02-13 19:37:16] <Alan_Ca> WE cannot consider people who are not here
[2008-02-13 19:37:20] -->| Shanel (i=82716fd2@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-02-13 19:37:26] * cary doesn't know any secret ways of contacting Ktsquare
[2008-02-13 19:37:42] <Shanel> Magical MSN?
[2008-02-13 19:37:45] * kibble huggels Shanel 
[2008-02-13 19:37:52] <Pathoschild> Alan_Ca: I was doing other things and forgot. If anyone pokes me, I'll pop in. :)
[2008-02-13 19:38:03] <Alan_Ca> Pathoschild, what's your first name?
[2008-02-13 19:38:09] <Pathoschild> Jesse.
[2008-02-13 19:38:13] <Shanel> Nobody knows how to contact you except me, sucky. :P
[2008-02-13 19:38:24] <kibble> Shanel, cary got him :-P
[2008-02-13 19:38:33] <Pathoschild> I'm usually on IRC, except it crashed without my noticing. :)
[2008-02-13 19:38:36] <Alan_Ca> Jesse, it has been stated that you have an interest in serving on the committee?
[2008-02-13 19:38:39] <Shanel> kibble: Cary got me to get him. :P
[2008-02-13 19:38:43] <kibble> :-)
[2008-02-13 19:39:17] <Shanel> Alan_Ca: He would, if he doesn't have to do large amount of work. ;)
[2008-02-13 19:39:33] <Alan_Ca> Can Jesse answer directly please?
[2008-02-13 19:39:35] <kibble> Alan_Ca, he's really a hard worker at times, don't listen to Shanel 
[2008-02-13 19:39:39] <Pathoschild> Alan_Ca: I'm interesting in helping out with translations, the wiki technical side (coding pages and templates, for example), and possibly in drafting documents.
[2008-02-13 19:39:48] <Shanel> kibble: Shush you. :)
[2008-02-13 19:39:54] <kibble> Shanel, just tellin it like it is
[2008-02-13 19:39:55] <kibble> :-P
[2008-02-13 19:40:06] <kibble> Shanel, you're talkin smack about my daddy >:|
[2008-02-13 19:40:10] <Alan_Ca> Jesse, do you feel that you can make the committment to be present for the meetings?  Or would you prefer to help out in an auxilary capacity?
[2008-02-13 19:40:11] <Pathoschild> Not necessarily on the committee, although I'm not entirely antipathic to the idea.
[2008-02-13 19:40:17] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-02-13 19:40:44] <Alan_Ca> I appreciate your interest Jesse, I think you can provide a great deal of help, but I believe it would be best if you were not on the committee itself
[2008-02-13 19:40:59] <Alan_Ca> Ohana, mitch, your thoughts?
[2008-02-13 19:41:29] <Mitchell> Not much to say, if they're interested in STeerCom, I'd support them.
[2008-02-13 19:42:07] <Alan_Ca> I don't know if we all agree on the reason for having a committee versus a dynamic group
[2008-02-13 19:42:20] <OhanaUnited> i hav to think
[2008-02-13 19:42:33] <Pathoschild> Alan_Ca: That's fine with me. I don't mind helping in an auxiliary capacity.
[2008-02-13 19:42:34] <Mitchell> I see the Steering COmmittee as just that -- steering the group.
[2008-02-13 19:43:02] <Alan_Ca> Well Mitchell, the committee is a directed team
[2008-02-13 19:43:02] <Alan_Ca> As a team we need regular attendance to meetings
[2008-02-13 19:43:09] <Alan_Ca> It's not about who we like or not, it's about who has time to help
[2008-02-13 19:43:11] <Shanel> Pathoschild: Translating I hope. :D
[2008-02-13 19:43:14] <Mitchell> Yea
[2008-02-13 19:43:19] <Alan_Ca> Thanks Jesse
[2008-02-13 19:43:25] <Alan_Ca> You're really simplifying my life here :)
[2008-02-13 19:43:30] <Pathoschild> :)
[2008-02-13 19:43:30] <kibble> Alan_Ca, it would be helpful if you sent out a reminder to the mailing list before each meeting
[2008-02-13 19:43:33] <kibble> (just a suggestion)
[2008-02-13 19:43:45] <Alan_Ca> Sure Kibble, but let's stay focussed on this issue
[2008-02-13 19:43:46] <Mitchell> I meant to do that today :(
[2008-02-13 19:43:54] <Alan_Ca> Shanel, is your first name Shanel?
[2008-02-13 19:44:02] <kibble> Alan_Ca, it is; you said people did not attend, that's a solution
[2008-02-13 19:44:18] <Shanel> Alan_Ca: Yep.
[2008-02-13 19:44:34] <Alan_Ca> Right Kibble, thank you
[2008-02-13 19:44:49] <Alan_Ca> Shanel, do you have an interest in serving on the steering committee?
[2008-02-13 19:45:59] <Shanel> Alan_Ca: I am interested in helping, but I am not sure what I'd be able to do on the steering committee. And since I'm in school I'd make that my first priority.
[2008-02-13 19:46:17] <Alan_Ca> Ok, so possibly another auxiliary volunteer?
[2008-02-13 19:46:22] <Shanel> Yep. :)
[2008-02-13 19:46:28] <Alan_Ca> That sounds great to me as well
[2008-02-13 19:46:51] =-= HOTR is now known as HistoryOnTheRoad
[2008-02-13 19:47:04] <Shanel> Hey History
[2008-02-13 19:47:10] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-02-13 19:47:18] <Alan_Ca> So Mitchell, do you have what you need to know?
[2008-02-13 19:47:30] <Mitchell> For what?
[2008-02-13 19:47:35] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Shanel: :)
[2008-02-13 19:47:47] <Shanel> :D
[2008-02-13 19:47:49] <Alan_Ca> Defining the members
[2008-02-13 19:47:56] <Mitchell> I think so
[2008-02-13 19:48:13] <Mitchell> So we have Ayelie, Pathos (Jesse) and Shanel?
[2008-02-13 19:48:25] <Mitchell> Ayelie being the webmaster
[2008-02-13 19:48:36] <Mitchell> Correct?
[2008-02-13 19:48:38] <Alan_Ca> So we dropped all the members at large except Ayelie and we will wait and see on KtSquare, but officially KTSquare is not on the committee
[2008-02-13 19:48:42] <Alan_Ca> Yes
[2008-02-13 19:49:02] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie, you will need to work with Mitchell closely as he manages a lot of the records and communications
[2008-02-13 19:49:07] <Ayelie> Pathoschild are you still interested in helping with the webpage design and updating, particularly the French porition?
[2008-02-13 19:49:12] <Ayelie> *portion
[2008-02-13 19:49:17] <Pathoschild> Ayelie: Yep.
[2008-02-13 19:49:23] <Ayelie> alright, perfect :D
[2008-02-13 19:49:36] <Pathoschild> Ayelie: Speaking of which, did you have a design done?
[2008-02-13 19:49:38] <Mitchell> Ayelie:
[2008-02-13 19:49:45] <Mitchell> eneryone for that matter
[2008-02-13 19:49:50] <Mitchell> *everyone
[2008-02-13 19:49:52] <Ayelie> Pathoschild: no I did the logo instead, I thought you were working on the design ;)
[2008-02-13 19:49:55] <Shanel> Are members-at-large part of the committee?
[2008-02-13 19:50:02] <Mitchell> yes
[2008-02-13 19:50:03] <Ayelie> and ktsquare said he would work on a design as well
[2008-02-13 19:50:12] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v Shanel  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 19:50:13] <Alan_Ca> We don't have any members at large really anymore
[2008-02-13 19:50:14] <Ayelie> I still can, I just focused on the logo last week
[2008-02-13 19:50:19] <Shanel> Mitchell: What exactly do they do? 
[2008-02-13 19:50:29] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie is the only one from that list that we decided to put on board
[2008-02-13 19:50:32] <Mitchell> Part of the committee without a specific function
[2008-02-13 19:50:34] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca is my position now Webmaster instead of member-at-large?
[2008-02-13 19:50:41] <Ayelie> or am I the sole member-at-large left?
[2008-02-13 19:50:46] <Alan_Ca> The rest we two not able to committ and one who isn't here that will be addressed at another time
[2008-02-13 19:50:49] * Mitchell is confused
[2008-02-13 19:50:58] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell
[2008-02-13 19:51:01] <Mitchell> So is Ayelie the only new member?\
[2008-02-13 19:51:08] <Alan_Ca> Just give Ayelie the title, she wants
[2008-02-13 19:51:11] <Mitchell> Yes
[2008-02-13 19:51:13] <Alan_Ca> IT doesn't matter to me
[2008-02-13 19:51:22] <Mitchell> and is pathos and shanel on the committee now?
[2008-02-13 19:51:25] <Alan_Ca> no
[2008-02-13 19:51:27] <Mitchell> k
[2008-02-13 19:51:32] <Alan_Ca> They will help out in an auxiliary capacity
[2008-02-13 19:51:36] <OhanaUnited> so everyone agrees?
[2008-02-13 19:51:43] <Alan_Ca> This will save them the time of being bogged down in administrivia
[2008-02-13 19:51:48] * Pathoschild ayes.
[2008-02-13 19:51:56] <kibble> Alan_Ca, can we go onto the pretty pictures now?
[2008-02-13 19:51:56] <kibble> logos*
[2008-02-13 19:52:01] <Ayelie> :D
[2008-02-13 19:52:03] <Alan_Ca> Sure
[2008-02-13 19:52:03] * Shanel yos
[2008-02-13 19:52:07] <Alan_Ca> First question
[2008-02-13 19:52:18] <Ayelie> I need to give a little speech and run-down of the situation first.
[2008-02-13 19:52:18] <Alan_Ca> Does anyone here understand the guildelines for a logo according to WMF?
[2008-02-13 19:52:27] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca can I cover that please?
[2008-02-13 19:52:27] <kibble> yes
[2008-02-13 19:52:30] <Alan_Ca> Sure Ayelie
[2008-02-13 19:52:33] |<-- Shanel has left (Nick collision from services.)
[2008-02-13 19:52:35] <Alan_Ca> Let's let Ayelie run with this
[2008-02-13 19:52:35] <Ayelie> Thanks
[2008-02-13 19:52:36] [INFO] No such nick/channel
[2008-02-13 19:52:40] * Ayelie gets on her soapbox
[2008-02-13 19:53:06] <Ayelie> First of all, WMF identify guidelines for their logo mean you can't make modifications beyond adding a name such as "Canada" under "Wikimedia"
[2008-02-13 19:53:35] <Ayelie> We can't have modifications of the existing logo such as the proposed ones at and 
[2008-02-13 19:53:41] <Mitchell> Though I do like the logo :)
[2008-02-13 19:53:47] <Alan_Ca> As do I
[2008-02-13 19:53:49] <Ayelie> They are neat, but not allowed.
[2008-02-13 19:53:51] <Ayelie> SO.
[2008-02-13 19:53:52] <Mitchell> :(
[2008-02-13 19:53:58] <Ayelie> I created a new one
[2008-02-13 19:53:59] <Alan_Ca> So life going on :)
[2008-02-13 19:54:02] <Ayelie> with several versions
[2008-02-13 19:54:05] <Alan_Ca> Do you have a link?
[2008-02-13 19:54:10] <Ayelie> Before I link them, though I'd like to point out
[2008-02-13 19:54:13] -->| Shanel (i=82716fd2@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-02-13 19:54:30] <Ayelie> Delphine stated that chapter logos have to be the boring WMF logo with "canada" underneath.
[2008-02-13 19:54:41] <Shanel> Ewwwww
[2008-02-13 19:54:44] <Shanel> Boring
[2008-02-13 19:54:48] <Ayelie> so our OFFICIAL logo has to be
[2008-02-13 19:54:49] <Alan_Ca> But life
[2008-02-13 19:55:00] <Ayelie> HOWEVER. she stated we can probably have a "community logo"
[2008-02-13 19:55:12] <Alan_Ca> I definately oppose a community logo
[2008-02-13 19:55:19] <Alan_Ca> We should only have one logo
[2008-02-13 19:55:21] <Ayelie> Her statement was
[2008-02-13 19:55:28] <Ayelie> "However, I don't see why Wikimedia Canada could not work with some kind
[2008-02-13 19:55:30] <Ayelie> of "Canadian community" logo of their own for less official stuff."
[2008-02-13 19:55:48] <Ayelie> I'll post the links to my designs 
[2008-02-13 19:55:50] <Alan_Ca> I'm sorry Ayelie, I definitely cannot agree with that
[2008-02-13 19:55:59] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca can I post my suggestions first?
[2008-02-13 19:56:02] <OhanaUnited> 2 logos = confusing
[2008-02-13 19:56:04] <Ayelie> we can have a vote later
[2008-02-13 19:56:09] <Alan_Ca> You can post them
[2008-02-13 19:56:21] <Alan_Ca> But from a legal perspective, I oppose the idea of two logos
[2008-02-13 19:56:24] <Ayelie> there is no reason why we can't have a design to use as a decoration on the webpage or something similar
[2008-02-13 19:56:32] <Alan_Ca> It is confusing
[2008-02-13 19:56:36] <Ayelie> yes of course. It wouldn't be a logo, more of a "symbol" or something
[2008-02-13 19:56:48] <Alan_Ca> And I cannot believe Delphine agreed to that, it sounds like the issue was avoided
[2008-02-13 19:56:52] <Ayelie> My first design:
[2008-02-13 19:57:07] <Ayelie> similar to the WMF logo, but entirely different at the same time
[2008-02-13 19:57:17] * kibble loves it
[2008-02-13 19:57:19] <Alan_Ca> It's nice
[2008-02-13 19:57:25] <Mitchell> :)
[2008-02-13 19:57:28] <Ayelie> two blue bars mimicking the bars on the Canadian Flag, also the "sea to sea" motto of Canada
[2008-02-13 19:57:33] * Mitchell is pleased
[2008-02-13 19:57:37] <cary> community logos are not unprecedented
[2008-02-13 19:57:45] <Ayelie> second version has a larger map and smaller maple leaf:
[2008-02-13 19:57:50] <kibble> the foundation even has one
[2008-02-13 19:57:51] <Ayelie> I like that version a bit better, personally.
[2008-02-13 19:57:54] <Alan_Ca> Ok, I would like to confine this debate to the committee only please
[2008-02-13 19:58:26] <Ayelie> Third version I greatly dislike but it's for you guys to vote on... following with the "flag design" I put the leaf in the center and map on top:
[2008-02-13 19:58:27] <cary> "And I cannot believe Delphine agreed to that, it sounds like the issue was avoided" 
[2008-02-13 19:58:36] <cary> I have to explain why Delphine would agree to that
[2008-02-13 19:58:43] <cary> since I'm the only one with insight about it.
[2008-02-13 19:58:49] <Alan_Ca> Cary, if delphine wishes to attend
[2008-02-13 19:58:51] * kibble listens to cary
[2008-02-13 19:58:53] <Alan_Ca> Then she can do so
[2008-02-13 19:58:59] <kibble> Alan_Ca, she had a baby
[2008-02-13 19:59:02] <Alan_Ca> We can wait
[2008-02-13 19:59:09] <kibble> please just let cary speak
[2008-02-13 19:59:09] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie, I hate to cut this short
[2008-02-13 19:59:12] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca she had a baby and it's about 5am in the morning there or some rediculous time like that.
[2008-02-13 19:59:32] <Alan_Ca> But we really don't need to see all the logos and such
[2008-02-13 19:59:33] <Ayelie> actually I think it's 3am
[2008-02-13 19:59:45] <cary> It is 3am there
[2008-02-13 19:59:51] <Alan_Ca> I also think we shouldn't quote WMF people, but let them represent themselves through Wknight
[2008-02-13 19:59:55] <Alan_Ca> or attend directly
[2008-02-13 20:00:09] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca, this is for everyone to decide on. we haven't discussed having a secondary design to use
[2008-02-13 20:00:26] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie, do you have an alternative logo that meets the WMF guidelines?
[2008-02-13 20:00:29] <Ayelie> I agree that two logos is confusing, which is why I can take the text out of my version and we can just use it on web designs or things like that
[2008-02-13 20:00:33] <OhanaUnited> for me, the image on the main WMC page looks good enough
[2008-02-13 20:00:38] <Ayelie> the alternative I've already linked
[2008-02-13 20:00:40] <OhanaUnited> except we hav to move the maple leaf elsewhere
[2008-02-13 20:00:43] <Ayelie> OhanaUnited that isn't allowed
[2008-02-13 20:00:47] <cary> Alan_Ca: The only logo that meets the guidelines is the one without the maple leaf
[2008-02-13 20:00:48] <Ayelie> you can't modify the foundation logo
[2008-02-13 20:00:52] <cary> it has to look like the foundation logo
[2008-02-13 20:00:54] <Alan_Ca> Unfortunately, we are restriced
[2008-02-13 20:01:01] <Alan_Ca> There is no point in trying to buck that reality
[2008-02-13 20:01:06] <kibble> OhanaUnited, we cannot include that at all
[2008-02-13 20:01:29] <OhanaUnited> =.=
[2008-02-13 20:01:33] <Alan_Ca> I understand the frustration, but that is the price of working with WMF
[2008-02-13 20:01:37] <kibble> OhanaUnited, yeah :-(
[2008-02-13 20:01:46] <Ayelie> can we please hear what cary has to say about Delphine's explanation?
[2008-02-13 20:01:49] <Ayelie> that's rather important 
[2008-02-13 20:01:51] * kibble agrees with Ayelie 
[2008-02-13 20:01:51] <cary> forget it
[2008-02-13 20:01:52] <Mitchell> lets
[2008-02-13 20:01:58] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie, I don't think Cary should represent Delphine
[2008-02-13 20:02:05] <kibble> Alan_Ca, he's not
[2008-02-13 20:02:06] <Alan_Ca> We have Wknight representing chapcomm officially
[2008-02-13 20:02:16] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca he wouldn't be, he would be explaining the situation because he understands it
[2008-02-13 20:02:19] <cary> wknight8111: why don't you explain Delphine for us.
[2008-02-13 20:02:41] <wknight8111> sorry i'm late
[2008-02-13 20:02:44] <wknight8111> very, very late
[2008-02-13 20:02:49] <wknight8111> what do i need to explain?
[2008-02-13 20:03:03] <Ayelie> Delphine's position on having a community logo.
[2008-02-13 20:03:04] <cary> Why delphine might have said something about allowing a community logo
[2008-02-13 20:04:13] <wknight8111> WMF logo is copyrighted, not GFDL. So that raises some problems, especially if you want to make leaflets or wiki pages, or things that need to be reproducible
[2008-02-13 20:04:32] <wknight8111> plus, the visual identity guidelines prevent certain uses, like business cards, which you guys may way
[2008-02-13 20:04:37] <wknight8111> way -> want*
[2008-02-13 20:04:48] <Alan_Ca> wknight, if we follow the guidelines
[2008-02-13 20:04:54] <Alan_Ca> And use the supported logo
[2008-02-13 20:05:06] <Alan_Ca> Are we licensed to use that logo for business cards and promotions?
[2008-02-13 20:05:15] <Mitchell> I think so
[2008-02-13 20:05:20] <Alan_Ca> wknight only please
[2008-02-13 20:05:33] <wknight8111> no, the WMF logo may not be used on business cards
[2008-02-13 20:05:57] <Alan_Ca> wknight, to be associated with WMF do we have to use the official logo?
[2008-02-13 20:06:09] <Alan_Ca> If we want to be Wikimedia Canada
[2008-02-13 20:06:13] <Mitchell>
[2008-02-13 20:06:17] <Alan_Ca> Can we just make our own logo?
[2008-02-13 20:06:37] <Mitchell> I thought that the agreement said we can use the WMF logo royalty-free
[2008-02-13 20:06:40] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca our OFFICIAL logo would be the boring one. but we can't use that on business cards, so if we have a secondary Community Logo we can use that on business cards, etc.
[2008-02-13 20:06:44] <wknight8111> on that point i'm a little fuzzy. I don't think you MUST use it, although if you do use it, you MUST follow the rules for it
[2008-02-13 20:06:54] |<-- Shanel has left (Nick collision from services.)
[2008-02-13 20:07:23] <Alan_Ca> Ayelie
[2008-02-13 20:07:28] <Alan_Ca> I understand you want a different log
[2008-02-13 20:07:29] <Alan_Ca> logo
[2008-02-13 20:07:32] <Alan_Ca> I only want one
[2008-02-13 20:07:41] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca  that's not what I'm saying
[2008-02-13 20:07:41] <Alan_Ca> What I'm trying to find out is what options we have
[2008-02-13 20:07:53] <Alan_Ca> Well you clearly do not like the official logo
[2008-02-13 20:07:54] <Ayelie> I'm saying we will have ONE logo. which is the official foundation logo.
[2008-02-13 20:07:58] <wknight8111> I'm fuzzy on this area, so I would definitely need to consult with a higher-up for specifics
[2008-02-13 20:08:04] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-02-13 20:08:05] <cary> According to delphoine
[2008-02-13 20:08:10] <Alan_Ca> Cary, please
[2008-02-13 20:08:12] <cary> and I am quoting her in an email
[2008-02-13 20:08:16] <Alan_Ca> Wknight is here for Chapcomm
[2008-02-13 20:08:17] <cary> for which I have permission to quote
[2008-02-13 20:08:18] -->| Shanel (i=82716fd2@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca
[2008-02-13 20:08:19] <Ayelie> and for business cards and such, where we cannot use the official logo, we can use a different image.
[2008-02-13 20:08:24] <OhanaUnited> no way
[2008-02-13 20:08:30] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-02-13 20:08:30] <cary> "Official logo of Wikimedia canada will have to be the plain boring
[2008-02-13 20:08:31] <cary> Wikimedia Logo with Wikimedia and Canada underneath, as Wikimedia
[2008-02-13 20:08:32] <cary> France, or others have been using it (see or
[2008-02-13 20:08:32] <cary> for examples)."
[2008-02-13 20:08:32] <Alan_Ca> let's slow down here
[2008-02-13 20:08:34] <OhanaUnited> that doesnt look official
[2008-02-13 20:08:51] <kibble> OhanaUnited, what doesn't look official/
[2008-02-13 20:08:54] <cary> "However, I don't see why Wikimedia Canada could not work with some kind
[2008-02-13 20:08:54] <cary> of "Canadian community" logo of their own for less official stuff."
[2008-02-13 20:09:15] <cary> I'll forward that email to wknight8111 so he can tell you the same damn thing.
[2008-02-13 20:09:18] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +o Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:09:33] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +m  by Mitchell
[2008-02-13 20:09:38] <Alan_Ca> thanks mitchell
[2008-02-13 20:09:42] <Mitchell> Per Alan's request
[2008-02-13 20:10:03] <Alan_Ca> I move that we send this item off with wknight for clarification
[2008-02-13 20:10:10] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -o Mitchell  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:10:38] <Alan_Ca> Wknight, can you have an answer for next wednesday?
[2008-02-13 20:11:05] <wknight8111> by next wednesday, definitely. I'll actually try to be here on time!
[2008-02-13 20:11:15] <wknight8111> (not that i didn't try tonight)
[2008-02-13 20:11:27] <Alan_Ca> It's ok wknight, it happens
[2008-02-13 20:11:43] <Alan_Ca> I don't know if I'm lagging here or everyone is silent
[2008-02-13 20:11:47] <Mitchell> silent
[2008-02-13 20:12:04] <Alan_Ca> So I'm going to just move this item to be discussed at the next meeting after Wknight reports on the use of the logo and the restrictions for a chapter
[2008-02-13 20:12:42] * Ayelie is silent
[2008-02-13 20:12:46] <Alan_Ca> Thank you wknight
[2008-02-13 20:13:22] <Alan_Ca> I'm sorry Ayelie, I know this impedes your work for a week, but I think we should make a decision as a group at once we have the official position from chap comm
[2008-02-13 20:13:25] <OhanaUnited> that looks good, alan
[2008-02-13 20:13:48] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v cary  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:13:54] <Mitchell> Cary wishes to speak
[2008-02-13 20:14:00] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell
[2008-02-13 20:14:01] <Ayelie> Alan_Ca we did have the official position from Delphine, and the reasons. You wouldn't let cary explain Delphine's position
[2008-02-13 20:14:07] <Alan_Ca> I have had enough of Cary
[2008-02-13 20:14:12] <cary> This is your problem
[2008-02-13 20:14:14] <Alan_Ca> We have process here
[2008-02-13 20:14:19] <Alan_Ca> Wknight represents chapcomm
[2008-02-13 20:14:21] <Alan_Ca> That's it
[2008-02-13 20:14:23] <cary> We have answers now
[2008-02-13 20:14:32] <Alan_Ca> Cary, I don't know who voiced you
[2008-02-13 20:14:38] <Alan_Ca> But clearly wknight speaks for chapcomm
[2008-02-13 20:14:46] <Alan_Ca> As to my knowledge he was assigned here by Delphine
[2008-02-13 20:14:48] <cary> Alan_Ca: And wknight doesn't have answers I have
[2008-02-13 20:14:58] <Alan_Ca> Cary, you are not our rep for Chapcomm
[2008-02-13 20:14:59] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Sorry, I popped out for a second
[2008-02-13 20:15:01] <Alan_Ca> Please respect that
[2008-02-13 20:15:04] <wknight8111> Cary actually works for the foundation, so he probably knows more details then i do
[2008-02-13 20:15:08] <cary> Alan_Ca: This is actually becaue you don't like me
[2008-02-13 20:15:10] <cary> nothing more
[2008-02-13 20:15:16] <wknight8111> i'm just a volunteer on a committee
[2008-02-13 20:15:26] <Alan_Ca> You guys are driving me nuts
[2008-02-13 20:15:29] <Alan_Ca> Who represents WMF?
[2008-02-13 20:15:36] <Alan_Ca> Do you represent WMF Wknight?
[2008-02-13 20:15:42] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca +v kibble  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:15:46] <kibble> Alan_Ca, as I've told you multiple times
[2008-02-13 20:15:54] <kibble> wknight8111 represetns the chapters committee
[2008-02-13 20:15:56] <Mitchell> This isn't about representation I don't think. It's about answers.
[2008-02-13 20:15:59] <kibble> the chapters committee advises the foundation
[2008-02-13 20:16:03] <kibble> (board)
[2008-02-13 20:16:14] <kibble> cary is just a person who knows answers
[2008-02-13 20:16:17] <Alan_Ca> Right
[2008-02-13 20:16:20] <Alan_Ca> but I want official
[2008-02-13 20:16:30] <Alan_Ca> I dont' want to consider information from an unofficial representative
[2008-02-13 20:16:35] <Alan_Ca> If I have to write them an email, I will do so
[2008-02-13 20:16:38] <kibble> Alan_Ca, cary knows what he's talkign about
[2008-02-13 20:16:42] <cary> I am giving you the foundation's official position.
[2008-02-13 20:16:50] <Alan_Ca> Cary, you told me that you do not represent the WMF
[2008-02-13 20:16:51] <kibble> if you cannot trust cary, I don't know who you can
[2008-02-13 20:16:52] <cary> Alan_Ca: I *can* speak for the foundation in an official capacity
[2008-02-13 20:17:11] <Alan_Ca> You said to me earlier you were not here in an official capacity
[2008-02-13 20:17:20] <kibble> he did not need to be
[2008-02-13 20:17:24] <cary> I am here as an interested party.
[2008-02-13 20:17:28] <kibble> but now you have asked him to
[2008-02-13 20:17:31] <cary> But you had questions that I can answer officially
[2008-02-13 20:17:38] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Alan_Ca: He isn't always speaking on _behalf_ of the WMF, but he is employed by it. 
[2008-02-13 20:17:53] <Mitchell> And can officially speak for them, should he choose.
[2008-02-13 20:17:55] <OhanaUnited> ok, i m leaving in 5 mins
[2008-02-13 20:18:01] <Alan_Ca> Ok
[2008-02-13 20:18:02] <Alan_Ca> It's 9
[2008-02-13 20:18:02] <kibble> OhanaUnited, I'm leaving soon too
[2008-02-13 20:18:04] <HistoryOnTheRoad> And in this case, if he has communication from Delphine, I think we can take that on it's face.
[2008-02-13 20:18:06] <Alan_Ca> We will review this at the next meeting
[2008-02-13 20:18:12] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -m  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:18:18] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -vvvv OhanaUnited HistoryOnTheRoad wknight8111 Alan_Ca  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:18:19] =-= Mode #wikimedia-ca -vvvv cary kibble Mitchell Ayelie  by ChanServ
[2008-02-13 20:18:24] <Alan_Ca> Wknight, if you don't represent WMF, please clarify that before the next meeting
[2008-02-13 20:18:33] <kibble> Alan_Ca, it's not that clear cut
[2008-02-13 20:18:38] <cary> Alan_Ca: Wknight represents the Chapters Committee
[2008-02-13 20:18:48] <kibble> it would be helpful if you were just looking for answers and not someone "official"
[2008-02-13 20:18:52] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Alan_Ca: The WMF has several Committees. Wknight is on one of them, as a liason
[2008-02-13 20:19:09] <Alan_Ca> I want someone official because I want my answers from the WMF to come from one party
[2008-02-13 20:19:14] <Alan_Ca> I want one official channel
[2008-02-13 20:19:16] <cary> Alan_Ca: That will never happen
[2008-02-13 20:19:18] <cary> I'm sorry
[2008-02-13 20:19:21] <Alan_Ca> How can that not happen?
[2008-02-13 20:19:22] <HistoryOnTheRoad> Alan_Ca: That won't be possible
[2008-02-13 20:19:28] <kibble> Alan_Ca, that is not how thigns are done
[2008-02-13 20:19:32] <cary> Because no one person has all the answers
[2008-02-13 20:19:34] <cary> that you need.
[2008-02-13 20:19:43] <Alan_Ca> Right, but they can liaise in an official capacity to get those answers
[2008-02-13 20:19:47] <HistoryOnTheRoad> WMF is based on collaboration ... there isn't one "authority" that is the be all and end all.
[2008-02-13 20:19:52] <Alan_Ca> The committee can establish a rapport with that rep
[2008-02-13 20:20:01] <Alan_Ca> I need to divert so parties can leave
[2008-02-13 20:20:10] <Alan_Ca> Are we all good for next wednesday?
[2008-02-13 20:20:43] <kibble> sure
[2008-02-13 20:20:48] <Mitchell> Did we discuss the page organization?
[2008-02-13 20:20:56] <HistoryOnTheRoad> No
[2008-02-13 20:21:02] <kibble> Mitchell, make sure you set up the page and can you send out a reminder next week? (to the ml, soon before the meeting)
[2008-02-13 20:21:07] <Alan_Ca> ok
[2008-02-13 20:21:09] <kibble> Mitchell, that can be next meeting, I guess
[2008-02-13 20:21:13] <Mitchell> kk
[2008-02-13 20:21:20] <Alan_Ca> All members please forward your contact info, phone number, name, etc to Mitchell
[2008-02-13 20:21:25] <Alan_Ca> He's maintaining a contact list
[2008-02-13 20:21:51] <kibble> are we done? can I leave?
[2008-02-13 20:21:56] <Alan_Ca> yes
[2008-02-13 20:22:05] <Alan_Ca> I will discuss this WMF issue with Cary and wknight
[2008-02-13 20:22:39] <Alan_Ca> Cary, do you guys have a WMF channel?
[2008-02-13 20:22:53] <OhanaUnited> i gtg, bye guys
[2008-02-13 20:22:55] |<-- kibble has left ("sleep")
[2008-02-13 20:22:59] <OhanaUnited> i'll read the summary to fill in things
[2008-02-13 20:23:01] <Alan_Ca> ttyl ohana
[2008-02-13 20:23:01] <HistoryOnTheRoad> I'd say discuss here, it's not as busy
[2008-02-13 20:23:02] * Ayelie has to go for 10 minutes, back soon
[2008-02-13 20:23:08] <OhanaUnited> someone needs to summarize today's meeting
[2008-02-13 20:23:09] |<-- Shanel has left (" ajax IRC Client")
[2008-02-13 20:23:10] <Alan_Ca> It's really a WMF issue
[2008-02-13 20:23:15] <Alan_Ca> I'd prefer to discuss it with tme
[2008-02-13 20:23:15] |<-- OhanaUnited has left ()
[2008-02-13 20:23:29] <Alan_Ca> Mitchell does that for us Ohana
[2008-02-13 20:23:37] <cary> If you want a private channel, we can create one
[2008-02-13 20:24:06] <Alan_Ca> ok, for a brief discussion