Grants talk:PEG/WM DE/Wikimedia Conference 2014

Comment—Kevin Gorman

I understand that WMDE is a well-funded and well-organized chapter with a long track record of success, but I'm still kind of nervous about seeing grants handled like this. I have full confidence that WMDE will pull off this event well, and do so relatively frugally, but if any chapter other than WMDE wanted a grant of this size and provided the details that I've seen on this conference so far, we'd pretty much just laugh at them (I've seen the material emailed out to the GAC, but not details of conversations between Asaf, Garfield, and WMDE.) This seems to be moving in the direction of a two tier grant system - one tier where trusted entities get little scrutiny and lots of money, and one tier where less well-established entities get lots of scrutiny and relatively little money. I am uncomfortable with the idea of such a system, but I think that, if we do end up having such a system, I think we should at least have an explicit discussion about it beforehand. (None of this is to say that I disapprove of the funding of this, just that the process worries me.) Having everything done through email communication between relatively few people also raises the possibility that this grant could have a single point of failure, and we know how hard that has bitten us in the ass previously. Kevin (talk) 01:19, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Comment—Tony1

I largely agree with Kevin, and wonder why this was funded apparently without much scrutiny. Let's do a little scrutinising now. Specifically I want to query the travel, catering, and venue costs, which seem to be inordinately large.

To what extent have you "shopped around" for good deals?

Does the venue insist that you use their caterers? It comes down to a very large amount per person-meal.

Surely it's not a peak time of year, so couldn't the venue cost have been purchased for less than €14,000 (for four days, is it?), and are there not caterers who will competitively quote?

Doesn't WMDE already have all of the equipment necessary to run conference presentations, including sound and display equipment?

What are the costs for these "social events", having paid a fortune for a conference venue already?

Public transport is for whom and between where and where? Shouldn't attendees be paying for some of their costs (I'd be inclined to provide for international attendees who are not in a position to pay—but only them)?

What are the office material and communication costs that WMDE can't provide itself? WMDE's financial situation is so replete with cash that it can afford to boost its FTE staff from 43 to 51 this year, I believe.

Travel: this is air tickets only, I presume. Why is it €1764 per person from Australia???? Have you tried booking cheap fares on the internet? Same for a lot of other well-worn routes that should have ample discounts if booked well ahead. Why are the Canada tickets €691 but the four US tickets €1022 and €761 from DC and NYC, respectively (two each), and from Manilla only €787? Macau is almost double the HK price.

Do transport- and accommodation-funded attendees have any obligations to the movement/conference?

I find the "Fit to strategy", as usual, to be a waste of electrons. Were the answers copied out of a template? My criticism is directed more at the requirement to include it than at the applicants—IMO, it's for the staff and GAC to complain if there isn't a fit to the Foundation's strategies; this tired set of the same old points has done the rounds enough, and has not once influenced the appraisal of an application. My war against useless questions/answers continues: "This event is expected to repeat next year as well. No doubt WMDE's experience will be shared with future hosts." I never would have realised. Let's save everyone trouble and cut some of the useless questions out for a big event application like this, and require the details that we do need. Tony (talk) 02:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Here are our answers:

1. To what extent have you "shopped around" for good deals?

We have checked out all possible venues that fit the WMCon [| venue criteria]. Comparable venues including WIFI cost up to three times more than what we are paying. The Tagesspiegel venue gives us the first day for free and offers very low rates for the following days including room rent, technical equipment (beamer, screen, laptops, sound) and personell, WIFI and furniture. This is a fair good deal in Berlin for a fully equipped four-day conference with one plenary and up to three/four meeting rooms.

2. Does the venue insist that you use their caterers? It comes down to a very large amount per person-meal.

Yes, the venue has it’s own caterer, which helps especially when thinking about smooth processes on-site. Having asked for conference catering many times before, and compared to Berlin standards, 25 € PP for free drinks the whole day incl. coffee, tea, soft drinks, breakfast, lunch and coffee break with cake is a very good price.

3. Surely it's not a peak time of year, so couldn't the venue cost have been purchased for less than €14,000 (for four days, is it?), and are there not caterers who will competitively quote?

See answers above.

4. Doesn't WMDE already have all of the equipment necessary to run conference presentations, including sound and display equipment?

WMDE does indeed have some equipment at hand, but not enough to fully equip a conference of this size.

5. What are the costs for these "social events", having paid a fortune for a conference venue already?

See answers to Itzkies' questions.

6. Public transport is for whom and between where and where? Shouldn't attendees be paying for some of their costs (I'd be inclined to provide for international attendees who are not in a position to pay—but only them)?

Local transport costs have been covered at the past WMCon events in Berlin. We would like to give each participant the opportunity to freely move around Berlin during the conference days and we don’t make a distinction between people who can and cannot afford it. This is a service we believe everyone should be granted and where we get a special deal with the public transport company. Please also note, that if all accommodation and social event venues are in walking distance to the venue (we are still working on the details), we might consider only offering single ride tickets for special events, and not cover the whole conference weekend.

7. What are the office material and communication costs that WMDE can't provide itself? WMDE's financial situation is so replete with cash that it can afford to boost its FTE staff from 43 to 51 this year, I believe.

This includes prints of the program, handouts, attendee kit and name tags, all extra material that the facilitators might need as well as posters (if applicable). Of course we are happy to provide the things that we already have. Please also note that this grant is supposed to be a role model for future conferences, so all costs should be included in the budget to make it comparable and transferable to the future hosts.

8. Travel: this is air tickets only, I presume. Why is it €1764 per person from Australia???? Have you tried booking cheap fares on the internet? Same for a lot of other well-worn routes that should have ample discounts if booked well ahead. Why are the Canada tickets €691 but the four US tickets €1022 and €761 from DC and NYC, respectively (two each), and from Manilla only €787? Macau is almost double the HK price.

These prices have been researched two months ago for posting the [| bid for the conference]. These are results of a [| skyscanner search], as asked for in the bidding process and will of course vary depending on time booked etc. This was supposed to give the location committee an overview in October 2013 of how expensive flights to Berlin are, compared to other cities.

9. Do transport- and accommodation-funded attendees have any obligations to the movement/conference?

There are a few aspects to be taken into account here.

• WMDE is the venue host for the conference, responsible for all the logistics. The program and goals of the meeting are designed by a [| program team] (consisting of international chapter (board) members plus Asaf Bartov and Nicole Ebber as WMF and WMDE staff/liaisons), which is supported by an external facilitator (Anna Lena Schiller) through the whole process (Oct-May).

• The program team is currently designing the [| conference themes and outcomes]. By end of the year, they will present those to the Wikimedia folks. As soon as these themes are available, the organisations decide upon which delegates they will send: This gives them the chance to pick experts in certain fields on the conference agenda and does not force them to just send the same people year after year – just because they don’t know which topics will be covered before they start making their travel arrangements. Registration will open in mid January.

• All participants, whether funded or not, are expected to actively take part in the conference. They will be provided with background material to prepare properly, and will be encouraged to help with documenting and following-up on the issues of their interest. The participation is not supposed to end on April, 14. We hope that the conference will be a kick-off or catalyst for further discussions and working groups related to the future and structure of the movement.

Hope this helps understanding the process a little better. Feel free to ask further questions. -- Wenke Storn (WMDE) (talk) 10:25, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Question about food and social events

Hey,

Here what I wrote on the GAC mailing list: As someone who attended most of the ChapConf, I find it hard to understand the reason for having "snack dinner" at WMDE office every night at total cost of 4.000,00 €.

1. We never did that, and I never heard a request to have such dinner. Most of the attendees prefer to have a dinner with their friends at restaurant after a long conference day, and not to move from the conference venue to an office.
2. Even if we this purpose is to offer a small dinner to people who can afford, the amount is way too much from my POV.
3. Are the social event include foods costs? How it's gonna work? people will move from the venue, to WMDE office, to an outside social event somewhere in the city? --Itzike (talk) 07:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your questions, we're working on the answers already and will get back with the details tomorrow. Cheers, --Nicole Ebber (WMDE) (talk) 21:05, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey Itzike,

Thank you for your questions. I am happy to answer them.

1. We never did that, and I never heard a request to have such dinner. Most of the attendees prefer to have a dinner with their friends at restaurant after a long conference day, and not to move from the conference venue to an office.

I understand where you are coming from, but let me give you an insight in our thoughts and why we came up with the idea: We would like to offer a full-service package for all attendees at a good price. Of course, we are aware that people might need a rest or want to have a stroll around the city after an exhausting working day at the conference. But please take into account, that some of the participants have never before travelled abroad or cannot afford a meal at standard German prices. This is why we considered it a good solution to offer a light and informal dinner buffet at our office for all those who either want to continue discussions or just do not feel comfortable with being out in Berlin on their own. We would just like to provide a platform for all interested participants to hang out, have fun and talk to each other in an informal setting every night. Of course, joining these dinners is not mandatory, and people are free to go out somewhere else to grab a currywurst or kartoffelsalat. :)

Also, please do not feel confused by the term “office”. We just moved to a new place which offers space and is especially foreseen for community events. So if people don’t have any other plans, come to the WMDE event space.

2. Even if we this purpose is to offer a small dinner to people who can afford, the amount is way too much from my POV.

Having 160-180 participants in total at the conference, we assumed that about 80 people would take advantage of this WMDE dinner offer. We calculated 10 € per Person including food, drinks, catering equipment, cleaning costs times 3 nights equals 2.400 €. One night we would like to offer dinner to everyone, not necessarily in our office, this is to be defined and we calculated 10 € per Person only for food, equals 1.600 €. Makes up 4.000 €.

3. Are the social event include foods costs? How it's gonna work? people will move from the venue, to WMDE office, to an outside social event somewhere in the city? --Itzike (talk) 07:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Food is not included in the social event costs. We do not have a detailed plan yet, but we assumed to have one party night and maybe offer some smaller tourist or karaoke activity a second night. An example: an all-in beverage charge for 4 hours in a bar including non-alcoholic drinks, beer, wine, long drinks easily costs 25 € per person (not a price I would accept of course), times 160 equals 4.000 €. No room or DJ fees mentioned. 4.000 € is a very tight budget and we will make the best possible out of it.

I hope this helps. Best,-- Wenke Storn (WMDE) (talk) 10:33, 18 December 2013 (UTC)