Grants talk:PEG/WM ZA/Wiki From Above 2015

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GAC members who support this request[edit]

  1. If only some reasonable numbers are placed in success measurement. Polimerek (talk) 20:03, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
  2. Let's try rubin16 (talk) 11:52, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
  3. Maybe such projects were carried out in the past, but if not, then we have to give a chance to this as a pilot project. Wertuose (talk) 05:52, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

GAC members who oppose this request[edit]

GAC members who abstain from voting/comment[edit]

GAC comments[edit]

Measures of success[edit]

Thanks for the submission. The project is great and worth supporting in my opinion. However, please quantify the measures of success by setting clear numerical goals in order to have a clear outlook of what can be generated from the competition. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:52, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Kiril Simeonovski, Winifred Olliff has also asked me to expand on these. I have tried to answer her in my answers below (and in blue).--Discott (talk) 11:35, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Great! Thanks for your answers.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:57, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Current situation[edit]

I liked this project. I think it's a good idea for other wikis. But the organizers need to explain the current situation with aerial photography in South Africa. I mean, do you have many people involved in aerial photography in your country? Or is it legal to take aerial photos without permission from authorities. Because, as I know it is not allowed in some countries. If everything is OK, then I don't see any obstacle for opposing.--Wertuose (talk) 07:15, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

1. Aerial photography and drones are growing quickly here in SA. Its a massive trend globally. We have a community of over 1000 people. SA Drones on facebook has over 985 members. We have a full Whats App group of just the Cape Town based flyers. There are new guys joining everyday. We plan on marketing this competition at any shop or online store where you can purchase a drone.
2. Yes it is legal to fly and take photos and video from a drone for fun. There are regulations in progress for commercial use of UAS/UAV —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BallsyFPV (talk)
Hi Wertuose, I see Alan Ball (the festival organiser), who is partnering with me and Wikimedia ZA on this project has given a pretty detailed answer on the status of the drone community here in South Africa. Alan and I estimate that as many as 100 people might participate in this event. If as many as that participate I would consider it a great success. What is even more important to me than participation numbers is the quality of submitted content and its use on Wikipedia. As for the issue of the legality of using drones in South Africa. As Alan has already stated the government is still in the process of writing policy and regulations on UAVs. They don't even currently have a proper definition of what a UAV is and cant currently properly distinguish between a UAV and a toy. In the context of this competition it could be argued that all participating devices are toys as no-one is being professionally remunerated, it is not work, and it is a recreational competition. So long as participants do not break any existing privacy laws or aeronautical regulations (which would also disqualify them from the competition) then everything should be fine. --Discott (talk) 10:27, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

contacts with drone community[edit]

I also like this project and want to support it. The key issue for me is whether drone community will be interested in it or not. I see that festival organizer is also a team member: have you already talked to festival members/placed some ideas on the forums of the community? It would be nice to see that people already support this idea and will participate if the event is organized. rubin16 (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I'm part of the drone community and helping organise this competition and the event. I have talked to many of the active members of the community and they are fully behind this project and can't wait to take part. They already publish large volumes of content online. This provides more purpose and value to their videos and photos. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BallsyFPV (talk)
Thanks for commenting on this Alan (BallsyFPV). Just to clarify, Alan is a South African drone enthusiast with connections to the greater South African drone community. He is also one of the organisers of the drone festival is also one of the people assisting me in making this competition happen.--Discott (talk) 10:27, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Community comments[edit]

WMF comments[edit]

Thank you for this interesting request. We see that you are taking advantage of the opportunity of having the conference nearby to try and get more aerial photographers involved with Wikimedia, and we appreciate that this request is relatively inexpensive (although we will need more clarity around your targets to better understand what impact you are achieving with the funds). We can see from the risks you listed and the criteria for the contest you proposed that you have thought through this event in detail, and we especially like how the criteria you proposed are focused on ensuring that the contest generates content can actually be in use on Wikimedia projects. We also were happy to read that the contest prizes consist of vouchers for photographic equipment, which seems like it will motivate the contributors you are targeting through this project.

We have a few questions about the contest that we are hoping you can answer while we consider the request:

  1. Would you tell us more about the content gap you see this contest filling? How did you and your community assess this gap, and how do you think the contest will address that gap?
  2. Do you have Wikipedians on hand who are willing to help make sure the content deemed useful is actually used on the Wikimedia projects?
  3. We like your measures of success. Would you be able to set some specific targets for the measures of success you listed?
    • Increase the number of quality of aerial photographs on Wikimedia Commons (number of images)
    • Increase the number of quality of aerial footage on Wikimedia Commons (number of images)
    • Increase the number of aerial media taken in Africa on Wikimedia Commons (number of images)
    • Effective use of this media on Wikipedia (use rate for images)
    • Promote editing and contributing content to Wikimedia projects in South Africa generally (tell us how you will know if this happened)
    • Increase the profile of Wikimedia and Wikipedia amongst this technologically savvy group of South African enthusiasts (tell us how you will know if this happened)

We are looking forward to learning more about your project through your answers. Thanks again! Winifred Olliff (WMF Program Officer) talk 00:36, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


Hi Winifred Olliff, thanks for the detailed questions and comments. Here is my attempt at answering your questions satisfactorily (in blue).
  • Would you tell us more about the content gap you see this contest filling? How did you and your community assess this gap, and how do you think the contest will address that gap?
Currently these are gaps that I have just spotted myself whilst editing South Africa related content and am acting on. I have just put up a request for feedback on this very issue on Wiki Project South Africa to get feedback from the community.
Here is the list of the content gaps I have spotted so far and have asked the community for feedback on:
  • Places of geographical interest: mountains, beaches, hills, biomes, bays, rivers, ect.
  • Public historic sites: battle sites, monuments (even new monuments can be added so long as they are video footage), ect.
  • Settlements: neighbourhoods, towns, villages, ect.
  • Infrastructure: highways, power stations, and national roads.
  • Private places of interest with owner's consent: wine farms, historic buildings, ect.
I feel this competition will provide both photographs and video footage of these topics for use on their relevant Wikipedia pages. For example, the article on w:Thabana Ntlenyana, the highest mountain in South Africa, currently has no photograph of it to illustrate the location. What better way to illustrate that mountain on its Wikipedia article than with a nice aerial photograph?

  • Do you have Wikipedians on hand who are willing to help make sure the content deemed useful is actually used on the Wikimedia projects?
Apart from myself not yet. I have just put up a request for feedback and interest on Wiki :Project South Africa and I do have a network of South African editors who I know personally who I could ask to help out. I do plan to do a bit of this myself but would appreciate any Wikipedia help I can get. Having said that part of the project is also to encourage participants to take the initiative and edit Wikipedia them selves by adding their their own content on relevant Wikipedia pages.
  • We like your measures of success. Would you be able to set some specific targets for the measures of success you listed?
Sure.
  • Increase the number of quality of aerial photographs on Wikimedia Commons (number of images)
The number of aerial photographs submitted. Of particular interest would be the number of such images that are judged by the community to be 'quality' or 'valued' images. So of interest would be a) number of images, b) number of valued images, c) number of quality images.
  • Increase the number of quality of aerial footage on Wikimedia Commons (number of images)
Same sort of metric as the photograph question above. The number of aerial media clips submitted. Of particular interest would be the number of such media that is judged by the community to be 'quality' or 'valued' media on commons. So of interest would be a) number of images, b) number of valued images, c) number of quality images.
  • Increase the number of aerial media taken in Africa on Wikimedia Commons (number of images)
As this is a South African based competition it is certain that most submitted content will be taken in Africa. However we will accept content that might have been taken elsewhere as well.
  • Effective use of this media on Wikipedia (use rate for images)
That is correct it would be the 'use rate' for images or number of images actually used on Wikipedia and for how many articles they are used on.
  • Promote editing and contributing content to Wikimedia projects in South Africa generally (tell us how you will know if this happened)
One of the prizes in the competition "Best use on Wikipedia" -which is the single most valuable prize- has been proposed so as to encourage participants to take the initiative and insert their own content on relavent pages on Wikipedia. The best use of a submitted media or photograph in terms of quality of the content to illustrate the subject of that article and the value that content adds to that article will win that prize.
  • Increase the profile of Wikimedia and Wikipedia amongst this technologically savvy group of South African enthusiasts (tell us how you will know if this happened)
A good question. We could conduct a mini-survey and ask people how many of them had even heard of Wikimedia before and their awareness of how easy and sincerely we want more people to edit Wikipedia could be done? I think this might be unnecessary as from my encounters with people the perception I have is that most people here in South Africa currently close to zero level awareness of these two things. Just by being present at the festival with banners (which Wikimedia ZA already has and will use here) and giving out the prizes (as well as running the competition and any warm up intro events) will likely go a long way to raising awareness within this community. One of the other things I want to do (which will cost no additional money) is to setup a localised wifi area for editing Wikipedia and submitting content at the festival its self. That should also raise interest and awareness amongst festival goers. I am a bit reluctant to conduct a survey on this as it would add a new level of administration to this event and I feel I would have to then ask for more funds to pay for my time to make this happen. --Discott (talk) 11:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Discott. Thank you for your submission and responses to the questions above.
  1. It would be great to actually have expected metrics for the measures of success. For example, Increase the number of aerial media taken in Africa on Wikimedia Commons = 500 images. It would also be nice to have a baseline if possible.
  2. What would make this project really worthwhile for Wikimedia is if it does address a key content gap. Thank you for listing some of the content gaps you have observed and for posting on the WikiProject: South Africa page for feedback. In order for the competition to address the gaps, do you plan on creating and publishing a list of locations/existing articles/potential articles so that the photographers know what to focus on?
Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 01:03, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Alex Wang (WMF),
  1. I am always a bit reluctant to give a baseline for a pilot project like this as there are many unknowns. I sort of feel it is a bit like asking how many angles can fit on the head of a pin. However I am prepared to give the following estimate baseline figures based on feedback from Alan the event organiser and my experience from organizing WLM in South Africa. Base line participation of 25 participants each submitting on average 2 videos and 15 photographs each for a total of 50 videos and 375 photographs. Assuming that videos are worth as much as 10 photographs then that would be a value of ((50 videos x 10) + 375 photos)/$917 = 0.95 dollars per photograph or $10.42 per video. This is significantly less than the roughly R3200 ($273) it would cost to get about 35 aerial pictures and a video taken using a local private sector contractor.[1]
  2. Key content gaps: if I had to focus on one it would be "Places of geographical interest- mountains, beaches, hills, biomes, bays, rivers" closely followed by "Settlements: neighbourhoods, towns, villages, ect."
It is good to mention at this point that this competition, which encourages video content to be submitted, allows participants to get around South Africa's Freedom of Panorama issue on public art which has been a problem for WLM when submitting pictures of recently built monuments such as ones that commemorate the struggle against apartheid. This is the case because the legislation on this issue excludes film recordings of public works of art as being subject to the Copy Right Act of 1978. This means we can record media of newly built monuments and submit them as video in this competition thereby getting around this requirement that has dogged WLM ZA. This is just one nice little extra of this competition.--Discott (talk) 14:40, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Discott. Thanks for your responses. In terms of baselines what I meant was do we have an understanding of, for example, how many aerial photographs we currently have of South Africa? This would give us a better understanding of if 375 is a reasonable amount or not. But since this is a relatively new area, I realize we may not have this data. I do think it is very important for the photographers (and for increasing the impact of this grant), if you had a published list of key content gaps. For example, a list of important towns, villages, monuments, beaches, etc. that we hope to see photographed. Addressing key content gaps can be one element of the judging criteria. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 20:35, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Alex Wang (WMF), I have done a number of searches over the years for aerial images in South Africa. My most recient search on Commons has yealded a total of 781 images most of which are higher altitude pictures that are often of limited usability taken from commercial airliners. Within the Commons category "Aerial photographs of South Africa" there are only 276 images. The best selection of aerial images that I have been able to find was a collection of photographs taken from a helicopter by Simisa in 2007 of urban areas in Cape Town. A few, such as Maitland or Muizenberg of which I have used for Wikipedia articles on neighborhoods in Cape Town. There are also a number of images taken from the top of Table Mountain of Cape Town (again of limited use) and a few images of very low quality (size wise) of places like Springs supplied with permission from local real estate agencies or travel agencies. Pictures of mountains and other places of geographical interest are much more rare and monuments even more so. Airports seem much better covered. Aerial pictures of Cape Town (due to the mountain and easy availability of helicopter tours) seem to be the most numerous although they are not always the most useful. Usefulness of aerial photographs is still pretty random and a competition like this would provide some ability to focus the subject and therefore the usefulness of submitted aerial photographs. There are no video aerial videos of South African places that I am aware of.--Discott (talk) 14:28, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Since I have listed some key content gaps already in the answer above (something I admittedly should have done in the original grant application and which I would like to still include) I have added a wishlist of aerial photographs instead. You can find many of the gaps at the WikiProject South Africa Gallery page on Wikipedia where it is obvious which places are lacking any image and an areal image would be perfect for.
I will stop with those three examples for now. In general identified content gaps are: places of geographical interest, public historic sites, settlements, infrastructure, private places of interest. --Discott (talk) 15:11, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Discott. I don't think I was clear in my last post. I meant that a clear list of key content areas for the photographers to focus on and prioritize will help ensure that the photos submitted are useful for the Wikimedia projects. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 18:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Alex Wang (WMF), do you mean a list of specific Wikipedia articles? If so that will not be a problem.--Discott (talk) 10:21, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Request to amend completion date of project[edit]

The FPV Festival was moved from the beginning of May and was held during the weekend of 30 and 31 May. Due to an oversight, we omitted to request an extension of the end date of this grant to coincide with this extended date.

As the project was completed at the end of May only, we would like to request a change in the completion date of the project which will allow us enough time to compile a report to then be due at the end of July.

Many thanks --Humetheresa (talk) 07:46, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Theresa. Thanks for the update. The new end date is May 31, 2015. The final report is now due July 31, 2015. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 17:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
  1. http://www.aerialphotographycapetown.co.za/index.php?id=3 Quote from Aerial Photography for photographing a coastal home.