CIS-A2K/IRC meeting 2012-03-22

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CIS-A2K

CIS-A2K (Centre for Internet and Society - Access to Knowledge) is a campaign to promote the fundamental principles of justice, freedom, and economic development. It deals with issues like copyrights, patents and trademarks, which are an important part of the digital landscape.
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<poem> 08:59:49 PM hmundol: starting the log 08:59:51 PM prashanthns: let me put on my "formal daaktar" cap 09:00:12 PM hmundol: ok, just for context, this IRC is to cover any left over or unasked questions from the IRC last week. we ran out of time. 09:00:24 PM hmundol: so no firm agenda. anything you folks want to talk about. questions, suggestions, or any way india program can help. 09:01:03 PM prashanthns: Am in listening mode 09:01:32 PM hmundol: ….er, and this is where you ask piercing insightful questions that i will struggle to answer... 09:01:37 PM srikanthlogic: am just popping the questions asked last week here.. 09:01:51 PM srikanthlogic: 1. status of IP as trust , contractors coming under trust etc 09:02:08 PM hmundol: fair enough, prashanthns! 09:02:09 PM hmundol: so there is a trust that was registered. the india program team is operating as consultants to wmf. 09:02:52 PM hmundol: there are legal and regulatory assessments that are being done. 09:03:11 PM hmundol: i have to be honest and say that the best person to get any further specifics on this from are geoff and / or barry. 09:03:44 PM srikanthlogic: werent these assessments done before registering the trust? or have legalities changed since then ? 09:03:58 PM srikanthlogic: ^^ was also asked IIRC 09:04:44 PM hmundol: assessments were done before but there are aspects that are being evaluated by legal. i don't specifically know if any legalities have changed per se - but then i'm no lawyer. 09:04:50 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: fair enough, anyway will go into the log 09:05:04 PM hmundol: while anyone is free to raise new questions or points, i wanted to talk a little bit more about the work on indic languages if that's alright. 09:06:15 PM hmundol: it is fascinating to see how the work evolved and is panning out - and the 09:07:19 PM hmundol: a few months ago, it looked extremely complex and there was always a big question mark of how we would approach it 09:07:51 PM hmundol: a big decision point was to say that we will be totally focussed on community - and the other elements (content & readership) would follow 09:08:23 PM hmundol: this has informed all the work that we are doing. 09:08:30 PM hmundol: the note that shiju issued regarding the summary of discussions was an articulation of our thoughts at the time. 09:08:51 PM hmundol: it was also an attempt to try and bring to life the concept of community building - which can appear as both vague and motherhood at times.09: 09:26 PM hmundol: we wanted to crystallize it into specific suggestions.09: 09:39 PM hmundol: something like communication and collaboration needed to be exemplified in clear suggestions.09: 10:03 PM hmundol: i think the wikiprojects that have started in assamese and are hopefully starting in medical across other communities is a fantastic example of how this can pan out. 09:10:45 PM hmundol: now wikiprojects are a fairly obvious thing in mature projects but it is still new to many indic wikipedians 09:11:23 PM srikanthlogic: would have loved if shiju is around here 09:11:24 PM srikanthlogic: he too had an unanswered question last time around.. on the hiwiki RfC 09:11:44 PM hmundol: fair point, srikanthlogic. but happy to (try) and answer any questions 09:11:59 PM hmundol: yes, the hindi RfC. let me tell you what our approach regarding the whole situation is. 09:12:27 PM srikanthlogic: yes 09:12:38 PM hmundol: the hindi community is small. it is also a community where there is great deal of potential for collaboration and on-wiki communication as well as outreach. 09:13:28 PM hmundol: we have been focussed on these aspects - and do not want the RfC to affect the work. the potential is massive. the recent example where outreach in delhi and the glam initiative have resulted in 4 potential active newbies in hindi is a wonderful (if small) example of how hindi can progress 09:14:43 PM hmundol: in fact, hindi has a significant role to play in the crafts initaitive. 09:15:03 PM hmundol: typically, if there was glam initiative, and it resulted in content on en-wp, that could then serve as inputs for articles on other languages. 09:15:37 PM hmundol: at craft, the staff are (relatively) more comfortable in hindi than in english. 09:15:55 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: hiwiki's potential is a different thing.. can we focus on aspects specific to RfC ? 09:15:59 PM hmundol: so the plan is that we will have a briefing and outreach session in hindi, with experienced hindi editors for the staff. we will then create articles in hindi (and maybe in parallel in english). …instead of the more (conventional ?) route of starting in english. 09:17:12 PM srikanthlogic: am worried on multiple counts if things like these could recur on other communities 09:17:14 PM hmundol: sure, srikanthlogic. 09:17:23 PM hmundol: there is always going to be a risk of that happening in other communities. to my mind, i think there are a few things that we can do to (try) and minimize the risk. 09:18:10 PM hmundol: first of all is to make EVERY community member feel empowered about about their respective communities. 09:18:46 PM hmundol: second is to build collaboration so that there is a stronger sense of community spiriit 09:19:02 PM srikanthlogic: yes, its a lakshman rekha that office has to take without damaging community's autonomy 09:19:06 PM hmundol: third is to constantly encourage communication on mailing list and on wiki - and in physical meet ups that are updated on wiki 09:19:35 PM srikanthlogic: but office can atleast identify potential situations like these well before they goto an RfC level.. 09:19:45 PM hmundol: srikanthlogic: it's a really tough point you have raised. my opinion is that IP should not get directly involved in a community issue like this. 09:21:37 PM hmundol: that's not to say that we should not or do not advise communities - and we do that all the time. 09:21:58 PM hmundol: …but getting into something like this would, i daresay, potentially inflame a situation - without anything gained - by any side. 09:22:31 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: I agree its a tough point, but when IP goes to extent of introducing content projects (like WP:medicine), they can also try and prevent situations going that bad 09:22:39 PM srikanthlogic: atleast IP can ask for RfC at earlier stages than waiting till damage is done 09:23:21 PM hmundol: i hear you. and i am thinking about how we could prevent it without (rightfully or otherwise) risking being regarded as "interfering" 09:23:30 PM hmundol: sure, srikanthlogic. only counter point (and it's not that i am totally disagreeing with you) is that we then run the risk of being regarded as some kind of policeman or ombudsman. neither of which we are or can be. 09:24:21 PM srikanthlogic: the possibility of shiju knowing it will be much higher than me knowing something on (say) kashmiri wikipedia 09:24:33 PM hmundol: or should be 09:24:35 PM srikanthlogic: but community development can be done isolating these issues 09:25:14 PM hmundol: true.. do you suggest a more "activist" role there? (sorry, the term is a bit extreme but can't find a better one. 09:25:29 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: atleast flag these early 09:25:58 PM hmundol: sorry, did you mean to say community development can't be done without isolating these issues? if not, then i've misunderstood you 09:26:04 PM srikanthlogic: let the (global) community decide 09:26:09 PM hmundol: sure, srikanthlogic. 09:26:11 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: yes cant* typo there 09:26:25 PM hmundol: will take that onboard. 09:26:34 PM hmundol: it is a tough one - and we need to figure out the right way of doing it. but i hear you. 09:27:30 PM hmundol: h Nayvik 09:28:22 PM hmundol: hi ATG_ 09:28:26 PM hmundol: hi jayanta 09:28:35 PM hmundol: hi shanmugamp7 09:28:46 PM jayanta: hi Hisham 09:29:00 PM hmundol: please feel free to ask any questions or ask me to elaborate on any particular points 09:29:07 PM hmundol: jayanta: good to hear about the start of medical project in your community. 09:29:37 PM hmundol: would be interesting if we could get the bangladesh-india collaboration going even stronger using a project like this. 09:30:09 PM hmundol: hi Anoop 09:30:42 PM anoop: hi 09:30:49 PM hmundol: sorry, repeating myself, but Anoop, jayanta, ATG_, Nayvik, and shanmugamp7: this is an open house. so please feel free to ask any questions about India Program and ask me to elaborate on any particular topic that you might b interested in 09:31:48 PM jayanta: Hmundol:thx but it was started in 2006 , by Dr Saptarshi, doctor now at USA , but now he is inaction 09:32:28 PM hmundol: sure, jayanta. but a restart after so long is reason enough to be excited! 09:32:58 PM hmundol: one thing that shiju might have told you about is trying to use a project of this nature to do outreach - medical outreach in medical colleges or with health professionals. 09:33:33 PM hmundol: we think it is a potentially powerful idea. 09:33:44 PM hmundol: right now, one issue with outreach is that participants don't often leave the session with a clear idea of what they can or might edit. this would be outreach with a clear purpose. 09:34:21 PM hmundol: the issue with the medical project is that it needs more participants across languages. …and some (at least) with some expertise in medicine. 09:34:52 PM hmundol: the initial idea was that the top 70-80 en-wp articles would get translated into simple english reducing the need for medical experise. …but that's moving a little slowly. so medical expertise is required. 09:35:35 PM hmundol: also, jayanta, is Dr Saptarshi still active? if not, can we try and encourage him back? 09:36:13 PM hmundol: an issue with many indic wikipedias is that we have a large number of retired editors and it'll be wonderful to see some of these folks return 09:36:51 PM hmundol: kannada is seeing that with the translation enhancement project. some retired editors have been encouraged to come back. 09:37:08 PM hmundol: also folks, just a reminder that wikipatrika is being reactivated. it'll be really nice if you could all pitch in. there is so much activity that has been happening in so many communities over the past few months. 09:38:19 PM hmundol: it's a wonderful way of celebrating all this - and to share experiences and lessons 09:38:33 PM hmundol: for those who don't know, wikipatrika is the community newsletter that attempts to capture activities and stories for all communities (indic and en in india) 09:39:43 PM shanmugamp7: hi humdol.. 09:40:28 PM hmundol: hi there! 09:40:32 PM hmundol: i' sorry, shanmugamp7, but i don't think i know which community you ar from? 09:40:55 PM shanmugamp7: sorry for the late reply.. i went to monitor cvn-wp-en 09:42:06 PM shanmugamp7: ramil 09:42:13 PM shanmugamp7: tamil 09:42:18 PM hmundol: ha! no problem! 09:42:19 PM hmundol: that's great. 09:42:38 PM hmundol: are you involved in any of the projects on tamil wikipedia? 09:43:08 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: shanmugamp7 is super active new editor in tamil wikipedia 09:43:27 PM atg_: @Hmundol, hi 09:43:37 PM shanmugamp7: hi srikanth 09:43:51 PM hmundol: and this is where i feel silly! sorry! shanmugamp7, you probably started many of the projects yourself! 09:44:08 PM hmundol: hi ATG_ 09:44:15 PM shanmugamp7: no humdal.. wiki medicine project is going on in tamil 09:44:20 PM srikanthlogic: shanmugamp7: வணக்கம்! 09:44:48 PM shanmugamp7: i have been active in tamil wiki for last 3 months only humdol 09:45:16 PM hmundol: that's good. i don't remember the numbers off-hand but how many folks are involved in medicine project? would be really good if we can keep attracting more folks (experienced editors & newbies, medical and non-medical background folks.) 09:45:41 PM hmundol: and srikanthlogic says you are super active! that's great! 09:46:06 PM freakofmimsy: hi all 09:46:13 PM hmundol: hi freakofmimsy 09:46:20 PM srikanthlogic: freakofmimsy: hi 09:46:36 PM freakofmimsy: hi hmundol, srikanthlogic 09:46:45 PM shanmugamp7: thanks to srikanth 09:46:49 PM naveenpf: hi 09:47:05 PM hmundol: shanmugamp7: please catch srikanthlogic and get him to do EVEN more on medicine project!!! 09:47:25 PM hmundol: hi naveen pf 09:47:34 PM shanmugamp7: ya sure.. hmundol 09:47:44 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: my tamil writing skills are lower than your knowledge of hyd 09:47:49 PM hmundol: that was supposed to be a state secret... 09:48:04 PM hmundol: and i will have you know that on notability, the error i made was forgivable!!! 09:48:26 PM hmundol: but i do apologize - publicly and now for posterity - for standing you up. 09:48:55 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: not a problem, was just mentioning why i shouldnt be writing tamil articles 09:49:34 PM hmundol: ha! we'll see about that. wait till shiju unleashes himself on you... 09:50:21 PM naveenpf: hi logic .. is there any way to make the invite templates more beautiful ? 09:50:24 PM naveenpf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_India/Outreach#Invite 09:50:28 PM atg_: logic - your english skills are not that bad, we culd use them on en.wiki ... 09:50:38 PM srikanthlogic: ATG_: I should come 'back' to enwp more often 09:51:04 PM freakofmimsy: hi ATG_ 09:51:20 PM srikanthlogic: naveenpf: there was some new template on list right? 09:51:26 PM naveenpf: deb has created one 09:51:42 PM hmundol: that's true. i'm trying to remember that eloquent phrase you once used. …something along the lines of a vanity board or something like that…. 09:51:46 PM atg_: logic - that would be wonderful, one of the aims of WP India is to bring back old editors to help revive the project, freakofmimsy:hi 09:52:05 PM atg_: hmundol - Im sorry If I missed this, but how was the ISB session? 09:53:00 PM hmundol: btw, ATG_ do we have a count on how many folks participated in the assessment drive? 09:53:13 PM atg_: 46, at the moment 09:53:25 PM atg_: but there are issues 09:53:35 PM hmundol: it was alright. great facilities and good audience. got 3 folks to actually edit for the first time. article on gabber singh (character) 09:53:43 PM atg_: people are new so we may need to have a relook at top and high importance articles 09:53:58 PM hmundol: really good thing is that we had 2 experienced editors (one in telugu and one in english & hindi) attend. got a chance for me to show nitika's outreach module. i'm hoping that will encourage these guys to do more outreach. 09:54:37 PM atg_: thats good, do you have any futher plans with them or was it a one off? 09:54:43 PM hmundol: also, we had coffee after the session and we talked through stuff on how we can do outreach more and better in hyd 09:55:03 PM hmundol: no, think it is going to be a one off. 09:55:12 PM hmundol: guys, just a quick time check. we have 5 minutes left. 09:55:46 PM hmundol: what issues are there with the assessment drive, ATG_ 09:57:14 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, would you like to answer the questions asked over last IRC about (i) hiring of the communications consultant and (ii) due-diligence being conducted post-registration for Wikimedia India Programs Trust? 09:57:28 PM hmundol: coz, 46 sounds like a spectacular number... 09:57:31 PM srikanthlogic: freakofmimsy: due-diligence being conducted post-registration for Wikimedia India Programs Trust? // answered at start 09:57:58 PM atg_: lots of people are new so we cant expect them to be on top of things - over or under assessment 09:58:13 PM srikanthlogic: so there is a trust that was registered. the india program team is operating as consultants to wmf. there are legal and regulatory assessments that are being done. i have to be honest and say that the best person to get any further specifics on this from are geoff and / or barry. assessments were done before but there are aspects that are being evaluated by legal. i don't specifically know if any legalities have changed per se - but then i'm no lawyer. 09:58:29 PM hmundol: sure., freakofmimsy. can you repeat the specific question on comms. consultant? 09:58:29 PM theo10011: Hi. 09:58:53 PM hmundol: hey Theo10011 09:59:01 PM srikanthlogic: freakofmimsy: ^^ that was not my words, just pasted reply from above 09:59:07 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, after the failure of IEP v0.1, the community specifically asked you to hire only established wikipedians, why did you hire a newbie user? 09:59:08 PM theo10011: hi Hmundol 09:59:11 PM atg_: hi theo10011 09:59:12 PM theo10011: hello ATG_ 09:59:27 PM srikanthlogic: hi Theo10011 09:59:28 PM theo10011: heh 09:59:35 PM theo10011: Hi all! 09:59:39 PM naveenpf: hi theo 09:59:40 PM freakofmimsy: srikanthlogic, thanks for posting it. it's not really an answer that answers anything. 09:59:45 PM hmundol: the role of the communications consultant is to work on 4 areas: digital outreach, social networks, media/PR and community communications. 09:59:59 PM hmundol: there is a separate position on communications from the global education team that Bob the Wikipedian has taken up. 10:00:23 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, does that justify having no member in your team with experience on the english wikipedia? the community specifically asked you to hire an established wikipedia. obviously, we believe that established wikipedians can perform these duties better? 10:00:54 PM hmundol: having said this, the role of communications about pilots is something that needs to be done by the person actually working on the pilot per se. 10:01:32 PM hmundol: actually, there is a very healthy balance in the team of folks who were new to wikipedia and folks with more experience. 10:02:08 PM ironholds: BobTheWikipedian is..well, a wikipedian ;p 10:02:17 PM freakofmimsy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:India_Education_Program/Analysis/Independent_Report_from_Tory_Read 10:02:34 PM hmundol: and everyone who was new are now all active editors. 10:02:46 PM freakofmimsy: This is a link to the discussions after the Tory Read report was published. 10:02:47 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, I have examined their edits, they are all inexperienced editors. 10:03:18 PM freakofmimsy: And their participation is limited to some articles, with close to zero experience with policy and wikipedia project space discussions. 10:04:17 PM hmundol: i am not sure how participation in some articles is a factor. the majority of editors do not play a role in policy discussions or project space discussions. 10:05:36 PM freakofmimsy: Specifically, your, Nitika's and Noopur's understanding of Wikipedia's editing and other policies is very limited. 10:06:21 PM freakofmimsy: Noopur28 was hired after IEP v0.1 where you were clearly asked to hire an experienced editor 10:06:58 PM freakofmimsy: and you agreed 10:07:02 PM freakofmimsy: shiju and subha are non enwp users 10:07:18 PM hmundol: well, you are entitled to your opinion on our understanding of editing and other policies. i disagree. 10:07:21 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, this is not only my opinion as you can see in the link above. there are other users who have pointed out to the contradictions in your previous statements and the recent decision which you have taken. 10:07:54 PM freakofmimsy: how are you going to run the education program on the english wikipedia without editors from the english wikipedia in your team? 10:08:58 PM hmundol: the link you have posted above is a report on the IEP pilot. it is not an assessment of anyone's individual editing. 10:09:23 PM ironholds: bloody internets 10:09:47 PM hmundol: huh? 10:09:58 PM freakofmimsy: I'm sorry, please take a look at the talk page discussion where Noopur28's hiring is discussed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:India_Education_Program/Analysis/Independent_Report_from_Tory_Read 10:09:58 PM hmundol: oh sorry, i missed for log gin out iron holds. 10:10:07 PM theo10011: ? 10:10:33 PM freakofmimsy: 799 edits over the past two months. most of them bot-like article assessments : http://toolserver.org/~tparis/pcount/index.php?name=Noopur28&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia 10:11:20 PM hmundol: sorry, Theo10011. meant to write "oh sorry, i missed the log out of iron holds" so wasn't sure what "bloody internets' was about! 10:11:21 PM freakofmimsy: And clearly lack of understanding of Wikipedia's policies, esp. [[WP:RS}] 10:11:31 PM theo10011: heh He's brit. 10:11:36 PM freakofmimsy: trying to use blogs as sources in articles, and arguing over them 10:11:50 PM theo10011: it's always something bloody with him. 10:11:52 PM hmundol: ha ha. fair enough. 10:11:55 PM freakofmimsy: I have a feeling that you are not taking your program objectives seriously. 10:12:22 PM hmundol: such as? 10:12:35 PM freakofmimsy: Running the second version of the IEP successfully. I don't see how you can do that properly without experienced Wikipedians. 10:13:04 PM freakofmimsy: And BobTheWikipedian, although an excellent wikipedian, is neither in proximity nor can he contribute to the IEP's next version in a manner an experienced Indian Wikipedian could. 10:14:11 PM ironholds: freakofmimsy: so you'd be looking for an experienced Indian wikipedian who edits fluently and consistently on the English-language wikipedia? 10:14:37 PM freakofmimsy: Ironholds, Yes, if the job is communicating with the Indian community. Moreover, having BobtheWikipedian is not a justification for what is clearly a bad hiring decision. Another user in contention was an experienced Wikipedian with over 8000 edits, communications experience around Wikimedia events and 6 years of work 10:15:41 PM hmundol: i think the 2nd pilot of IEP will need wikipedia expertise for sure. it will also require program design and management expertise. the team has the right balance. also, we will be working on a collaborative design for the project. i invite everyone to join in this. 10:16:01 PM hmundol: freakofmimsy: as i mentioned earlier, the job is not only community communications. it is also media/PR, social networks and digital outreach. 10:16:44 PM freakofmimsy: I appreciate the positive outlook in the face of difficulties. IEP v0.1 was a fiasco, and the team should have attempted to win community trust by doing the right thing. 10:17:05 PM hmundol: freakofmimsy: i urge you also to join in the process. 10:17:06 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, the user I am referring to BLANKBLANKBLANK 10:17:44 PM freakofmimsy: User:BLANKBLANKBLANK 10:17:49 PM freakofmimsy: Decisions like these disenchant the community from the process 10:18:31 PM hmundol: freakofmimsy: i will not get into a discussion on specific individuals who may or may not have applied for any job. 10:18:43 PM freakofmimsy: I never asked you to. 10:18:57 PM freakofmimsy: The fact remains that you made a decision contrary to what the community expected from you. 10:19:12 PM hmundol: freakofmimsy: actually, the community in india was fairly positive to the announcement of the selection so i disagree with you on that. 10:19:59 PM freakofmimsy: Hmundol, I'm referring to enwp users. Even then, the Indian community was not aware that there were other users in contention. 10:20:53 PM freakofmimsy: Most of the users congratulating the new consultant were non enwp users and new WPians. 10:21:21 PM hmundol: judgments on team selection are a complex matter and the community would expect that i build the right team. as evidenced by the work that is being done on indic languages and on outreach, the team is solid and is doing good work. 10:21:39 PM freakofmimsy: You continue to ignore the vast feedback you received after IEP v0.1. The problem was not just inexperience in executing such programs, but bad planning with inconvenienced a large portion of the enwp community which had to clean up the mess. 10:22:58 PM hmundol: i don't think the facts would support that, freakofmimsy. there was positive responses from a wide cross section of the community - old and new, en and indic. 10:22:59 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, you can spin it the way you like. Most of the users commenting were new users on enwp or non enWP people. 10:23:42 PM hmundol: i am not spinning anything. look at the mail logs. 10:24:11 PM theo10011: Does SF staff have anyone for Social networks and digital outreach, etc.? 10:25:20 PM hmundol: as far as the earlier point is concerned, the feedback is not only not being ignored but has been incorporated. see how the education program is being run in cairo - or indeed all the work that we have done subsequently in india (even though it has not been related to education.) 10:25:21 PM theo10011: I don't think they do. 10:25:25 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: mailing lists are not whole representations of community // wrt India list positive on announcement 10:25:33 PM ironholds: Theo10011: iirc we have a sort of general social media person 10:25:34 PM ironholds: or did, anyway; I'm not sure if she is still around or was just a contractor for the fundraiser 10:25:44 PM theo10011: Was it hired after you? 10:25:49 PM ironholds: but either way her ankle is in five pieces, so.. ;p 10:25:55 PM theo10011: Yes, that was actually my official title in the contract too. 10:26:03 PM freakofmimsy: srikanthlogic, even then most of them are non enwp people 10:26:11 PM theo10011: And I don't think there is anyone in SF for that particular position. 10:26:21 PM theo10011: five pieces? 10:26:32 PM ironholds: Theo10011: it got broken 10:26:40 PM theo10011: Don't tell me you had something to do with it? 10:26:49 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: I tell this with evidences that mailing list was mute and reluctant to accept IEP as failure 10:26:49 PM ironholds: not to my knowledge, I was several hundred miles away 10:26:56 PM theo10011: I'll see if your Alibi checks out. 10:27:15 PM hmundol: Theo10011. i think moka was doing some work on the social networks part of it. but don't think there is anyone full time on this right now. 10:27:18 PM theo10011: Hmundol, that's my point. 10:27:30 PM theo10011: Even in SF, there is no experienced Wikipedian. 10:27:38 PM theo10011: He does have a point, it would have helped if it was someone with a better standing. 10:27:54 PM theo10011: in Wikipedia. 10:28:01 PM theo10011: I'm not sure if Bobthewikipedian is directly in your team? 10:28:24 PM theo10011: but someone separated the two things, that should have been one. 10:28:43 PM freakofmimsy: And it's a point that has been made again and again on English Wikipedia pages, questioning the efficacy of programs run by individuals who have no enwp editing experience prior to joining the programs team 10:28:47 PM ironholds: Theo10011: there are lots of experienced wikipedians in SF ;p 10:28:53 PM theo10011: heh 10:29:00 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: any idea when next round of IEP discussions / design collaborations are bound to happen ? 10:29:06 PM ironholds: well, in the WMF at least 10:29:08 PM theo10011: not "lots" 10:29:15 PM ironholds: we have HaeB, Philippe, Swalling, James 10:29:15 PM hmundol: BobTheWikipedian is part of the Global Edication Program 10:29:16 PM theo10011: and we can go through individually if you like. 10:29:25 PM ironholds: most of the rest edit or have edited, but aren't "governance" editors. 10:29:31 PM theo10011: Ironholds, how much is that from a staff of 90? 10:29:38 PM hmundol: so not "directly" part of the India team - but we are going to be working closely. 10:29:47 PM ironholds: Theo10011: if you're upping it to all staff including remote, the wonderful Moonriddengirl, of course 10:29:55 PM theo10011: Not all 10:30:24 PM hmundol: srikanthlogic: we are working on publishing a plan to outline a schedule and draft plan for this. this plan should be out in the next couple of weeks. 10:30:28 PM theo10011: You are of course wonderful. 10:30:37 PM srikanthlogic: Hmundol: please give sufficient time for community feedback in your plan 10:30:59 PM hmundol: srikanthlogic: absolutely. 10:31:14 PM srikanthlogic: Ironholds: hai! 10:31:15 PM theo10011: Anyway, I'll let Hmundol get back to the discussion. 10:31:16 PM ironholds: srikanthlogic: hey! Great to see you, dude 10:31:24 PM ironholds: did the global development team pass on that beer yet? 10:31:32 PM theo10011: How do you two know each other? 10:31:38 PM srikanthlogic: Theo10011: just online 10:31:54 PM hmundol: er, Theo10011. …not sure if i have anything further to say… …and we shot over time 30 minutes ago! 10:31:58 PM srikanthlogic: Ironholds: do you want to know what MadamHut means? PM me 10:32:05 PM theo10011: someone should have done that an hour ago. 10:32:27 PM theo10011: Sorry. 10:32:28 PM theo10011: So 10:32:43 PM hmundol: thanks, Theo10011! 10:32:45 PM theo10011: wrapping up? 10:32:47 PM hmundol: yup, i guess so! 10:32:52 PM freakofmimsy: hmundol, good luck with the program. I'll try and be as involved as possible. 10:33:40 PM theo10011: When is the IEP 2.0 kick off date? 10:33:55 PM freakofmimsy: I think adopting the Google Summer of Code model will be more efficient, by the way, but we'll keep that discussion for later. 10:33:59 PM hmundol: thanks, everyone. shall put up the logs asap and send a note to the mailing list. do go through the logs for the initial section. shared some (i think!) interesting aspects on community building. 10:34:05 PM ironholds: srikanthlogic: I found out 10:34:06 PM theo10011: I missed the first hour, so I'll take a look at the logs. 10:34:28 PM srikanthlogic: Ironholds: cool ! 10:34:30 PM ironholds: I had to promise Yuvi a bottle of scotch to do so 10:34:35 PM ironholds: Sumana and I were sat in a hotel lobby with it bugging us. "Rot13 it! Caesar cipher! ARGH!" 10:34:53 PM srikanthlogic: Ironholds: you succumbed to pressure, could have waited for more time 10:35:05 PM hmundol: hey, Theo10011: don't have a firm date yet but will publish a tentative plan shortly. 10:35:20 PM ironholds: I'm not good with long-term planning ;p 10:35:27 PM theo10011: k 10:35:27 PM hmundol: er, ok. now officially closing the india programs part of the IRC. 10:35:39 PM theo10011: Ironholds, Hmundol is trying to wrap up. 10:35:55 PM theo10011: Give him some room. 10:36:00 PM hmundol: Thanks, Theo10011! 10:36:09 PM hmundol: anyways, thanks so much for attending. remember, next week is another IRC. we'd like to talk outreach, outreach, outreach. 10:36:36 PM hmundol: see you then. 10:36:42 PM jan_eissfeldt: asaf, erik, frank, guillaume, gerard, maggie, geoff is even liked by the germans (the first wmf lawyer ever to claim that prize, if its one ), steven, jon, sarah, etc. (ex devs. out of the mediawiki-community). they have a couple, Theo 10:36:50 PM srikanthlogic: freakofmimsy Theo10011 Hmundol Ironholds good to c you folks, please join #wikimedia-in too! 10:36:58 PM theo10011: ohh mass pings 10:37:05 PM hmundol: sure thing. 10:37:09 PM hmundol: goodnight folks.

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