Wikimedia Forum/Archives/2007-09

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Just a small query...

Is there really that much difference between Wikibooks and Wikiversity? Could Wikibooks not become a section of Wikiversity, considering Wikibooks, that is, textbooks, is a tool one uses to learn; is not learning the entire purpose of Wikiversity?

If you disagree, please clarify the distinction between the two. -- 09:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

A travel guide is a perfectly valid candidate Wikibook, and in fact I think Wikibooks has some already. However it is not a textbook. Ditto for a cookbook, which I know for sure Wikibooks already has. Therefore the missions are not congruent. Hope that helps. Good lateral thinking though! ++Lar: t/c 13:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Metapub in italian language?

I wonder if there is metapub in English language only, here on meta, or also in other languages.

Is there one in Italian language?--ChemicalBit 19:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I am not completely sure about this, but I believe that all languages use this page, though it is mostly English discussion here. I could be wrong though. Greeves (talk contribs Wikipedia) 00:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
As Greeves said, this page is aimed to multilingual discussions, so Italian language is also welcome. But for your information there is already Polish page Bar, older than Metapub, and now seem not used for a year and more. --Aphaia 02:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
  • 你可書義大利文。Hillgentleman
    • note: translated "you can write in other languages here" -anon 16:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
      • additional note: correctly "you can write in Italian language." --Aphaia 18:10, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, anyhow it's not a trouble to me to write in English (or I hope so).
I was just looking for the best place to contact most Italian-spaking user (that are user of WMF pojects in Italian languages).--ChemicalBit 12:25, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm afraid there is no such neat place. Bar in Italian Wikipedia or the mailinglist itwiki-l are near to what you are searching for, while they are not intended to use for this purpose. --Aphaia 11:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, Aphaia. But, as I'm going to work with inter-projects matters (look at Where does we manage same-language projects cooperation and collaboration? section below) I'm looking for a more "super-partes" and coordinating place.
Off course if I will get to manage how to start this idea, I will notice it out at it.Wikipedia and all other WMF projects in Italian language.
The aim of my question in this section was to know where to talk about my idea, so to rach the most of italian-spaking user here in meta --ChemicalBit 16:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikimedia Italia has loads of Italians on Meta, if that is of any help. Greeves (talk contribs Wikipedia) 02:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Donations Wikipedia sister projects, like Wikiversity

Suppose someone was willing to donate land or a large (or small) sum of money to Wikiversity for the use in research or projects. How could this be done properly and with the blessing of everyone needed? Whose blessing would be needed? Also, does anyone have ideas how this money could be allocated fairly and to that it is used responsibility by those who will use it to further the mission of Wikiversity? Thank you! --Emesee 05:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

It would depends how the money would be planned to be used. I would suggest that a group of wikiversity editors write down a proposal of how they want the money to be specifically used (such as development of a feature, freeing a copyrighted text, scanning documents, organizing an event etc...), and depending on what type of projects is planned, see the most practical way to receive the money and to spend it. Let's say the money would be donated to organize an event, if there is a chapter in that country, the chapter could be used to receive the donation and manage payments. If it is to pay a developer to do something specific, the donation could be given to a chapter or to the Foundation, who would in turn hire the person. If such a project is planned, it should however be handled to the community members. In terms of land donation, we were only one confronted to the situation and we opposed it. We are not currently able to handle such a property. Can you be more specific in your reequest ? Anthere
There has been on-going old proposal for a Sandbox Server. v:Wikiversity:Sandbox ServerHillgentleman
I didn't mean to be so delayed in my response. However, the sandbox server would probably serve as a good example. --Emesee 10:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Category templates

I created some templates that add a page to a category: this way, for example, if I write {{{ugly}}} this puts the page in the Ugly category. As a side effect, the template itself is addedd to the Ugly category: how do I keep this from happening?

You can put <noinclude> </noinclude> around it. This way, it only adds the category when it is transcluded. Greeves (talk contribs Wikipedia) 15:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Or either <includeonly> </includeonly> would work, and the category will only be added to the page when it's used, whether substituted or included (i think). Thunderhead 02:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Thunderhead is correct here. I must have been half asleep when I wrote this. ;-) Greeves (talk contribs Wikipedia) 14:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Thunderhead and I are hoping to revive the LSS for foundation-l. It will probably be done on a monthly basis. Anyone interested in helping us out? Greeves (talk contribs Wikipedia) 01:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't help with the summarising work but I think I can help with the translation into Italian language. --Massimiliano L. 16:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I am interested in helping in any way I can. I used to translate into French, but I could also give some limited help in summarising, like one week every month ? every 2 months ? I guess what takes the most time is reading every single E-mail posted on the list, and this is independent from whether the summary is monthly or weekly. On the other hand, what makes the summary attractive for readers might be its ability to produce "fresh news", and this would be a reason for keeping a weekly basis. Teofilo 11:19, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Local time

I'm wondering how to set the local time for specific Wikipedia such as Thai Wikipedia. The time zone is on UTC+7. But when I use {{LOCALTIME}}, it appears as the same as {{CURRENTTIME}}. --Manop 06:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

You are invited to file a bug to Bugzilla for changing Thai project local time settings. --Aphaia 08:59, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I submitted the bug now --Manop 21:08, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes

Please check the recent changes. Action should probably be taken against a certain user and a variety of pages deleted. --Emesee 01:24, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Done, by Majorly. Please use WM:RFH next time, thank you :-) --.anaconda 21:15, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you admins (and especially Majorly) for taking care of that. I will be sure to utilize WM:RFH next time. --Emesee 10:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


Are subpages supposed to be capitalized? Is there reference in policy or guidelines about this? Thanks. --Emesee 19:06, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there is any written guideline nor even a standardized convention. It depends interlingual templates and so on, ad from this reason, some subpages are not to be capitalized (Election related pages, translation requests with the status table etc). I recommend you leave existing subpages as is. --Aphaia 11:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay. I will leave them alone until consensus is reached on the matter. --Emesee 03:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Where does we manage same-language projects cooperation and collaboration?

I think that more cooperation and collaboration amongst different projects in the same language would be useful. (I'm used nearly only with Italian language projects, but the same matter is possible for each language )

For example at it.wikipedia, we delete or transfer not few page created by new user becouse "Wikipedia is not a dictionary". Informing those users that they should write pages f that kind on it.wiktionary would be usefull.

And many other things could be managed in cooperation.

Are there pages on meta already that are each a point of reference and aggregation for the projects in every language (Italian language, for example, as concerning me)?

If they are not, is possible to start them? --ChemicalBit 14:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

For many languages, Wikipedia seems to be their defacto coordinating place. Polish community launched their meeting point on meta (Bar), now inactive. Japanese comminity used once Talk:メインページ (Main Page in Japanese), but it was an old story. English projects has no visible meeting points, and cross-project communications are not coordinated, but spontaneously happen on meta, mailinglist, or sometimes public discussion pages, sometimes on some individuals talk page. Sometimes it may be private correspondence ... Metapub intended to be such a place, and you are welcome to start any topic in your favorite language, but if you think Italian community needs to have its own meeting place, it could be an idea to start a page, like Metapub/it (or bar/it?). --Aphaia 06:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that a specific page it would be better, as talk would be moslty in italian language. (Off-course, if we would find out some good idea, we will suggest it also here in english then).
I should think about the page name. (The page itself would not be a talk page, but a list of "to do", "working on", information and so on that we will write soon or later. And talks would be in the related talkpage. So I think that a page name like Metapub/it or bar/it would not be good )
Thank you. --ChemicalBit 22:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
In matter-of-facts, it would be a kind of noticeboard. And its talk would be a place for discussions. Right? I think it would be a nice idea: what about a title like coordinamento lingua italiana (italian language coordination)? --Massimiliano 09:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I fear that "coordination" word may be fowen upon by someone, as it may make people believe that there is an editorial office in wikimedia projects.
What about a title like "cooperation", "collaboration" (with a full name "cooperation among same language projects")? ("cooperazione" in Italian language)
I thought about another title, that I like more, but (while in Italian language is just one word, "aiutiamoci") in English is a long one "let's help each other" --ChemicalBit 12:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Derisive hatespeak on frontpage

There's a derisive political groupspeak used on the frontpage of the Foundation ([1]) — the Wikipedia, which is run in the academic literary norm of Belarusian language is labelled as "Наркамаўка" (see en:Narkamauka) there.

Unfortunately, I can't find the way to edit the frontpage, nor can I access it's edit history.

Therefore, I request from those in charge the change of the label to the "Акадэмічная" (meaning "Academic") which is objective, neutral etc. etc.

Also,it'd be nice to see at least some reprimand issued in the general direction of the daring soul who provided the frontpage of the Foundation with the derisive political groupspeak.

Thank you! Yury Tarasievich 17:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry, that soul was me. I simply didn't know it's considered offensive. I apologize. Fixed now. MaxSem 11:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Cyberstalking and Wikipedia

I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating them about it, and if possible improving their responses to it.

I'd like to include in it some examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target/victim is an administrator.

If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com. Your name would not have to be included in the final document for publication, and if you're worried about being exposed in any way, I can also change all identifying details. What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support from other Wikipedians. I'd particularly like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment or attention because of their sex.

Many thanks, SlimVirgin (talk) 22:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


What does it mean when the report says this?

Updates for this page are currently disabled. Data here will not presently be refreshed.

I use this report on wikispecies extensively.

Thanks, --Open2universe 03:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming you are referring to the English Wikipedia. It means that updates for this page are currently disabled, and data there will not presently be refreshed. Basically they're not updating it for whatever reason. Majorly (talk) 07:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
No I am not referring to the english wikipedia. I am referring to the Wikimedia project at . How can I turn the updates back on? Thanks --Open2universe 13:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Well that's what it means, data won't be refreshed. I assumed the update was disabled for species too. You cannot turn it back on unfortunately; I think it was turned off for performance reasons. You could file a bug request about it. Majorly (talk) 14:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Site update?

Hi! I've got a little doubt. Who edits the "main site" of Wikimedia? (that is, wikipedia or wikinews.) I mainly ask because Wikinews' "main site" has to be updated (both fr and es have passed sv, thus being: en, de, pl, it, fr, es). If anyone can answer my question I'll be really grateful... - Jurock 13:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Visit www, you find the template ... --Aphaia 13:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Neapolitan link

A user at Wikipedia's village pump pointed out that the sidebar interwiki link to the Neapolitan Wikipedia incorrectly reads "Nnapulitano" instead of "Napulitano". This should be fixed, if possible. --CrazyLegsKC 17:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

You are invited to file a bug to Bugzilla:.--Aphaia 23:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
The "double consonant" is a typical structure in the pronunciation of some southern italy dialects. I guess it is used in typing too, since most of those languages copy the writing from the oral sound. So it could be correct with the double Ns --Jollyroger 13:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Confirming that: nap:Lengua_napulitana
'O nnapulitano, è uno d''e dialette ca se parlano 'int'â Campania
"Nnapulitano is one of the dialects spoken in Campania" --Jollyroger 13:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

click-counter and other tools.

HI! My English is not very good. I´m from German Wikinews. 1. I got an idea that other NEWS-Sites already realised. I mean counting the clicks of an article. If we had such a tool we could see more faster how often an article was opened. That would be a great tool in Wikinews. I already got the answer that this tool is not availble anymore because that would be too much for ther servers. Is that right or is there an tool for that? 2. On other NEWS-Sites the Users can rate the articles. Each User just one time (surely). could we get this tool, too? I think with 5 stars. 3. on Other NEQWS-Sties the Users can comment the articles. That functuion is already in the English Wikinews realised but there is no automaally counter of the comments. Do you understand my questions? -- Joschy 19:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I like your thinking and I've had some of those ideas, personally, some of the Wikia code would be good for this since the new templates allow for article rating. --Patrick Mannion 23:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Mediawiki software allow counting the number of times a page has been viewed. This is disable on most large sites due to performance reasons.--ChemicalBit 13:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I just heard that this feature ist turned off. The List is an starting. But, there too much differences to the numbers. 7% are much too much. To make another tool with this feature might be a better idea. To Java, Javascript or somethinge lik that. That would be my choice. But there will be much work to do to implement this on the sites. -- Joschy 09:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Image policy and planned languages

I saw on Images on Wikipedia that every language project has specific rules and policies for dealing with images and their use. They seem to be based on the legistlation of the country where the languages in question are spoken. But what happens to e.g. planned languages, which do not belong to any specific country? I notice that the Esperanto project, though listed on that page, does not seem to have any specific policies. What is the procedure on this case? (The reason why I'm asking is that a contributor in the Volapük wikipedia has wondered if we Volapükists have the right to use coat-of-arms images that are allowed on certain Wikipedias -- fair use or local legislation -- but not on others. How can we know if it's OK to use them in the case of Wikipedias in planned languages?) --Smeira 13:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC).

I think it would be best to have a Commons only policy on the type of projects you are referring to above. Request turning off local uploads on bugzilla and change you upload page accordingly. More information can be found on commons:Commons:Turning off local uploads. Cheers! Siebrand 19:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
That's certainly wise advice; thanks Siebrand! But I notice that the Esperanto Wikipedia does seem to have coats of arms (their policy statement -- discussed here -- is basically a -- not yet fully translated -- version of its German equivalent, which does allow coat of arms use, it seems to me). Is the Esperanto Wikipedia doing something wrong? I hope not; and, in this case, can the Volapük Wikipedia do the same? It seems to be such a pity not to be able to add coats of arms to city articles/stubs!... Smeira 05:50, 24 Sept 2007.
Many projects are doing things wrong related to images. Usually this comes for a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of interest. We (those interested in Wikimedia on a meta level) do not have the task force/person power required to sweep the whole Wikimedia universe of all the crap. Hence the push to a centralised wiki like Commons, where all crap is at least in one place... I have indeed noticed before that the Esperanto Wikipedia has a lot of untagged/fair use/unsourced images. Cheers! Siebrand 09:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Oh well, OK. My conscience tells me you're right. A little before I came to the Vükiped, and some time after that too, another user (Manie) uploaded a number of coats of arms -- I'm not sure they were free. During next week I'll find some time to change to a commons-only policy (if possible in writing) and to delete everything that's not in commons. An example: vo:Magod:Logo_yakro.jpg, originally taken by Manie from fr:Image:Logo_yakro_jpg. I suppose this one is not OK and has to be deleted, right? Smeira 01:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
The image you link to on fr.wp is no longer there. The deletion log on fr.wp has no entry on this particular object. That should be marked unsource and deleted after a while if you proper source is given. Cheers! Siebrand 10:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)