Jump to content

Requests for comment/Category of non-free images in Wikipedia in Aragonese wich clearly contravenes the Wikimedia Licensing Policy

Add links
From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki

This is a subpage; for more information, see the Requests for comments page.

This category of 212 photographs of abandoned villages in Wikiedia in Aragonese are copyrighted, but their author has allowed them to be used in Wikipedia in Aragonese (and only there), and included in all of them a text link to his external webpage. All those images (uploaded in 2020), and the Policy about images in WP:AN that allows its use (aproved in 2021), contravene clearly the Wikimedia Licensing policy (published in 2007) that "may not be circumvented, eroded, or ignored by Wikimedia Foundation officers or staff nor local policies of any Wikimedia project".

Paragraph 3 of the WLP affirms that the exemption doctrine policy to use materials with non-free license "must be minimal. Their use, with limited exception, should be to illustrate historically significant events, to include identifying protected works such as logos, or to complement (within narrow limits) articles about copyrighted contemporary works." These photographs of abandonded villages do not belong to any of the three categories. Paragraph 3 continues especifying that: "An EDP may not allow material where we can reasonably expect someone to upload a freely licensed file for the same purpose, such as is the case for almost all portraits of living notable individuals." Refering to these abandonded villages, we can reasonable expect someone to upload a freely licensed file for the same purpose; the abandoned villages are "in situ" waiting to be photographed, as the alive (although aging) people. I have actually done so: I uploaded this free-licensed photograph, wich was rejected by the WP:AN sysop Lazaro d'Aragón to continue using another non-free one with a link to the author's blog. (Additionally, by doing so he ignored the priority expresed by the same policy: "Any content used under an EDP must be replaced with a freely licensed work whenever one is available which will serve the same educational purpose.")

In aplication of Wikimedia Licensing Policy, all the 212 images must be removed from WP in Aragonese.

Apologies and necessary context. I would ask the images to be removed in WP in Aragonese by myself, but unfortunaly I cannot, because, as I have explained in this Request for comment, I have been permanently blocked in WP in Aragonese, without right to defense, for requesting the deletion of insulting expressions addressed to me by a sysop.

One of the two reasons allegued by the WP:AN sysop Lazaro d'Aragón for blocking me was my opinion, expressed in this discussion two years ago and not repeated afterwards, that the images of that category had a kind of nationalist license, as their author allowed they to be used only in WP in one language, Aragonese, and so were not compatible with the principles of the Wikimedia movement (currently in Spain nationalist movements are based on the preferred language). Two sysops, including Lazaro d'Aragón have repeteadly qualified my former opinion as a "paranoia" (clearly violating the UCoC), and may now try to divert attention to this prior difference of opinion. Please note that my current complaint has nothing to do with it, but with the mandatory cumpliment of paragraph 3 of the Wikimedia License Policy, that I have only recently discovered. Thank you. Pompilos (talk) 16:50, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Spanish) No olvide explicar también que en la Biquipedia violamos los Derechos Humanos. Después de que usted cada día ataque en Meta a la Biquipedia y me acose con menciones diarias de mi persona, sigo esperando que se me comunique la denuncia ante el Tribunal Europeo de Derechos Humanos con la que nos amenazaba. Y una vez más, me veo en la obligación, como administrador de un proyecto wikipédico, de solicitar que se tomen medidas ante alguien como el señor Pompilos, con un larguísimo historial de discusiones y amenazas a decenas de usuarios en varios proyectos wikipédicos (wikipedias española, catalana y aragonesa) que se han saldado con varias advertencias por parte de muchos administradores en los tres proyectos y con dos bloqueos por acosador en la wikipedia catalana y uno más en la Biquipedia aragonesa. La obsesión del usuario por denunciar diariamente a la Biquipedia y a mi persona ciertamente es evidente, basta con ver su historial de ediciones en Meta, cuando ya en 2021 se le explicó, por parte del User:Stanglavine, que no existe ninguna "licencia nacionalista", algo que le habían dicho ya todos y cada uno de los administradores de Biquipedia, y a pesar de ello sigue insistiendo, recibiendo esta respuesta. Dicho esto, voy a seguir con mi trabajo en la Biquipedia aragonesa, algo que ya se ve que molesta y ofende muchísimo a alguien que ve nacionalismo por todas partes menos por una, la suya, ya que el único nacionalista que se ofende porque se hablen lenguas diferentes a la suya es él. Finalmente, vuelvo a rogar que se tomen medidas para que cese esta cascada de desvaríos por parte de este usuario. Saludos, Lazaro d'Aragón (talk) 12:12, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good luck, if this thread is not closed by the sysops (what is the most probable seeing the success of your previous requests) you will have to explain the guys in "en" Wikipedia (among others like "ca", "it", "pt"...) that they should also delete hundred of thousand of images contained in 22 categories with different non-free "English-nationalist" licenses ;-) --Willtron (talk) 13:22, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If this problem persis, then I would rather Support Support closure of their local upload function, at least for the foreseable future. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 15:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Liuxinyu970226, what do you exactly mean with "if this problem persists"? The thing is that there's no problem, we act inside the legality, following the policy voted by our comunity and doing anything different that has not been done in other Wikipedias like en, it, pt... This has been repeatedly confirmed by stewards (here and here for example). The only problem here is that Pompilos has thrown a tantrum and refuses to admit that he is not right. --Willtron (talk) 06:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(Spanish) El único problema que persiste es el acoso de un usuario que ha tomado por costumbre presentar una denuncia diaria contra la Biquipedia aragonesa y contra sus administradores. Estoy ya muy cansado de acosos y amenazas por parte del usuario, con una conducta disruptiva y de maltrato hacia usuarios y administradores de varios proyectos que ha merecido advertencias en tres proyectos wikipédicos y bloqueos en dos de ellos. Ruego se deje de alimentar la obsesión política ultranacionalista del usuario, que demuestra ser incapaz de colaborar en forma constructiva en proyectos wikipédicos en idiomas diferentes al suyo, y ruego una vez más que se tomen medidas para que cese esta situación de acoso. Es ciertamente lamentable que ante la denuncia de un usuario con su problemático historial, que incluye vandalismos consistentes en introducir información falsa en la Biquipedia, haya quien crea que la solución es darle la razón. Al usuario se le ha explicado tanto aquí como en la Biquipedia, por administradores de la Biquipedia y de Meta, lo infundado de su pretensión y sin embargo insiste una y otra vez obsesivamente en el mismo tema. Lazaro d'Aragón (talk) 13:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To whom it may concern. As I predicted, WP:AN sysops (Lazaro d'Aragon and Wiltron) have tried to divert attention from the complaint. They did it in two ways: 1) mentioning the discussion held two years ago about whether the licensing of these images had a nationalistic bias or not, and 2) accusing me of harassment and acting out of hatred for a language (Lazaro d'Aragon considers a harassment to defend myself against abuse of power and to demand compliance with WLP rules).
The only allegation (barely) related to current complaint is Wiltron's claim that other wikipedias, such as the English WP, also have non-free images. But I have not denounced that non-free images are not allowed in WP, but that point 3 of the WPL limits its use to very restricted cases that the 212 images clearly contravene. In conclusion, no WP:AN sysop has provided any legitimate argument against my complaint.
Furthermore, Wiltron is lying when he claims that two stewards have confirmed that the license for theese images is correct: a) the consultation he refers to was not this one about the violation of paragraf 3 of the WLP, but the previous one about the alleged nationalism of the license, b) the first intervention was the opinion of a single user, not a steward, and c) the second one of a steward who did not give any opinion, but closed the consultation because that was not the right place to present it. Pompilos (talk) 17:30, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(Spanish) No voy a molestarme en volverle a explicar otra vez más lo que se le ha explicado una y otra vez, por múltiples usuarios y administradores en tres proyectos distintos desde hace ya más de dos años. Si usted no quiere entenderlo es su problema. Lazaro d'Aragón (talk) 19:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(Spanish) Lo mismo, yo me canso ya de dar vueltas y discutir sobre lo mismo y que cualquier palabra sea usada para atacar. No volveré a escribir ni contestar aquí a ninguna acusación para alimentar a una persona que solo busca eso, confrontación. Seguiré trabajando en la Wikipedia en aragonés, como llevo haciendo ya casi 20 años sin molestar a nadie, con cientos de miles de contribuciones en varias Wikipedias y miles de artículos creados, cientos de fotos y gráficos subidos a Commons (algunos premiados). Mientras el usuario Pompilos acumula bloqueos en al menos dos proyectos y conflictos en algunos otros, siempre con actitud amenazante hacia administradores y otros usuario. No hay más que ver su historial y comprobar que es un usuario con unas ganas obsesivas de polémica y conflicto, como aquí está demostrando continuamente. Au! Que vaiga bueno! Saludos --Willtron (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my complaint I forgot to point out that the fact that all 212 images have a link to the external website of their author can be considered a case of SPAM. This is especially reprehensible because these images with what can be considered SPAM were uploaded to WP:AN by the sysop Willtron. However, over the years, this sysop has blocked 98 IPs and users for "Putting links or junk on pages" (in Aragonese "Meter sinconisions u basuera enas pachinas") and 15 for "SPAM" (113 in total), and the sysop Lazaro d'Aragón has blocked 4 for "Making publicity including links to other websites" (in Aragonese "Fer publicidat ficando vinclos con atras pachinas web"). In other words, they have allowed themselves (and the author of the images) what they have legitimately forbidden to others. Pompilos (talk) 20:27, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that on the external website to which the text links included in the photographs lead, at the bottom right of the page, 10 of the author's books are advertised, including three books on the same subject as the category of the photographs (Abandoned villages in Huesca), with links to the publisher's website where they are sold, with price and shipping conditions, such as this, this and this. Using wikipedia in this way is completely against the rules. Pompilos (talk) 13:51, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support deleting any non fair use images from Aragonese Wikipedia (this would include the 212 abandoned villages photos if they can be retaken). Also support getting rid of the weird "Images with copyright, but authorized" section in the policy. If neither of these things are done then I support turning off local uploads to Aragonese Wikipedia, at least for the foreseable future.--Commander Keane (talk) 00:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment I don't care about external links on file description pages, as far as I know they are allowed on Commmons. However, on Commons you can crop/remove watermarks which is highly beneficial. Commander Keane (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Commander Keane For "the 212 abandoned villages photos", This would however be a question regarding c:COM:FOP Spain, there are concerns that reproduction of buildings, sculptures and other type of fine artworks may be restricted by Spanish govt on the commercial purposes. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:43, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Liuxinyu970226, admittedly I didn't consider FoP as these buildings are old and I assumed copyright had passed. Is it 70 years after the author's death in Spain? The weird policy doesn't mention FoP but I am using a translation. Commander Keane (talk) 06:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Liuxinyu970226 and @Commander Keane, the abandoned villages in this category have buildings presumably older than 70 years: they are also traditional buildings, not designed by architects, but by anonymous masons (currently impossible to identify) whose copyrights expired many years ago. Conclusión: yes, there is freedom of panorama to photograph these places again. Best regards. Pompilos (talk) 16:02, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Pompilos and @Willtron:
  • This looks really like a contra position of your "Conclusión: yes, there is freedom of panorama to photograph these places again. Best regards." Probably I need to send an inquiry to the relevant government department regarding this topic. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:57, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Liuxinyu970226, work as you see fit, but the Toro de Osborne (The Osborne Bull) is not an old building in an abandoned village, but an advertising sculpture placed next to important roads made by designer who passed away in 1991. Anyway, if there were any copyright restrictions on taking new free photographs of these 212 abandoned villages, it would be the same restriction as for the photos included in that category of non-free photos. In other words, the question of the freedom of panorama does not affect neither is related to what I have denounced: that the 212 images violate the Wikimedia Lycensing Policy. Best regards. Pompilos (talk) 14:55, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Liuxinyu970226 I don't think the Spanish FoP has been changed by decisions from two lower courts in Spain. Current consensus in Commons does not endorse the rulings of these two lower court rulings; see c:Commons:Village pump/Copyright/Archive/2023/08#NO-FOP in Spain?. One relates to unauthorized trademark commercialization of the advertising sculpture (legal experts mixed up trademark and copyright), while the other is on the 3D (exact) reproduction of a sculptural work, even in miniature versions in the form of 3D souvenir items. All cases are not related to the copyright issue of the reproductions of public art and architecture of Spain in two-dimensional forms (like photographs). See also c:User:MarcoAurelio/FoP-ES. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 14:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I like to visit all sorts of wikis and I have recently commented on Aragonese Wikipedia. It did not take long before I was threatened with a block. I have not experienced that before even if I edited on lots and lots of wikis.
I have made a number of lists at an:Usuario:MGA73/Status#Ideas_and_things_to_work_on with files without a license, orphan non-free files, non-free files used outside article namespace etc. As you can see there are plenty of files to work on. Many of the files uploaded by the local admins. --MGA73 (talk) 18:27, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I Support Support deleting non-free content and closing for local uploads might be a good idea too. If you want you can read a discussion on an:Wikipedia:Tabierna/Atros#Cleaning_up_files and an:Descusión usuario:MGA73 about cleaning up files. If they do not have the time then I do not understand why they do not allow Global sysops and welcome any users that will help them follow the wmf:Wikimedia Licensing Policy. However, I do not think it is about the time because I nominated some unused, non-free files for deletion like an:Imachen:Tributo a las tres vacas, traches.jpg but instead of deleting the files my edits was reverted. So it can't be a lack of time issue instead they gave the reason: "...as I said some time ago, this topic is not our priority." (my bold) --MGA73 (talk) 05:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi MGA73, as you cite me here I would like to just detail that of course our priority is "to write articles and preserve the Aragonese language", not to lose time discussing and deleting images, that in my opinion are not damaging anybody. But anyway, as I have said to you in an:wiki, now it's completely up to you if you want to clean up the images. Please proceed, delete all the images that you consider that are breaking the law and that contradict the "holy word" of St. Jimbo Wales and after that close all these issues and let us work in peace. Best regards --Willtron (talk) 12:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(Spanish) Tiene usted la muy mala costumbre de mentir constantemente, en todas y cada una de sus intervenciones. Es completamente falso que usted "nominase para su borrado una imagen". Usted marcó para borrado rápido 18 imágenes en sus primeras 18 ediciones, como esta, como queda perfectamente visible en su historial de ediciones, y tras verlo, procedí a revertirlas por entender que no correspondía su borrado rápido, dejándo inmediatamente en su página de discusión un mensaje adviretiéndole de que no se podía proceder a su borrado rápido y que si por cualquier motivo usted solicitaba su borrado se dirigiese a la página de discusión de la imagen y explicase sus motivos. Aparecer por un proyecto y sin la más mínima presentación, comentario ni xplicación exigir el borrado masivo de imágenes no es la mejor manera de hacer las cosas. Parece creer usted que tiene todo el derecho del mundo a tratar a idiomas pequeños como si fuésemos colonias de su imperio particular, actuando de modo agresivo y con exigencias. A lo largo de toda la conversación se constata que usted sólo tiene como deseo borrar todas y cada una de las imágenes existentes en la Biquipedia, violando la política aprobada por nuestra comunidad hace ya muchos años, y además exige su borrado "manu militari", con amenazas (que se han concretado aquí, en su propia intervención) solicitando el bloqueo de la Biquipedia. Por el contrario, en su página dr discusión de usuario se puede constatar que ni más ni menos que ocho veces, como he hecho constar en otro de los muchus lugares por donde va esparciendo sus mentiras, se le he dicho que si quiere discutir la licencia de una imagen o categoría de imágenes (ya que todas las imágenes de la Biquipedia estaban antes de que usted apareciese como elefente por cacharrería perfectamente catagorizadas y entendemos que plenamente de acuerdo con las licencias exigidas por la Fundación) debe dirigirse a la página de discusión de esa categoría, a la taberna o a la página de discusión de la poítica de imágenes de la comunidad, llegando incluso ya en una ocasión a colocarle el vínculo, habiéndose usted negado constantemente a hacerlo (conducta que en este momento y viendo su comportamiento a posteriori considero ya que era conscientemente saboteadora). Pero no se preocupe. Ha generado usted tal hartazgo que ha reventado una comunidad wikipédica por completo. Yo he abandonado los proyectos wikimedia para siempre y he puesto todos estos hechos en conocimiento de la comunidad de hablantes de aragonés, y mi compañero Will, igual de desanimado que yo, ya le ha dicho educadamente que borre lo que le salga a usted de las narices y que lo deje en paz de una vez. Francaente, me siento asqueado por su manera de actuar en todo este asunto, y vista la inactividad de toda la comunidad wikipédica en geeral ante lo que sólo puedo calificar de golpe de estado contra la voluntad de una pequeña comunidad wikipédica de un idioma que se muere sólo puedo hacer que explicar públicamente lo sucedido y solicitar (cosa que he hecho) que nadie colabore con los proyectos de una Funfación Wikimedia donde se agrede de este modo al idioma aragonés. Saludos, y deje usted de mentir de una vez. Lazaro d'Aragón (talk) 08:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Category_of_non-free_images_in_Wikipedia_in_Aragonese_wich_clearly_contravenes_the_Wikimedia_Licensing_Policy&oldid=27419452"