Requests for comment/Removing all WMC link from wikimedia

The following request for comments is closed. Closure requested by creator. --MF-W 00:54, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikimedia Mainland China organization continues to call on more destroy and allow group members to make more chaos in the website controlled by them, such as Qiuwen magazine.

WMC is not an organization that serves all mainland Chinese users as its name suggests. In particular, the claim that it "represents users in mainland China" does not match the facts. Therefore, I think that the link to this user group does not necessarily exist on our site. Specific removal examples include: WMC's homepage link, all WMC-related QQ group links, and so on. We request to remove the website controlled by Wikimedia Mainland China cross Wikimedia project. This RFC is discussed on local at zh:Wikipedia:2021年基金會針對中文維基百科的行動/中國大陸維基人用戶組相關討論#動議：移除WMC於站內所有相關連結、網址

In recent years, some members of WMC have canvassed votes, manipulated elections, abused their authority to condone damage, and even resorted to legal threats. They also used to remove dissidents from their discussion groups to achieve the purpose of canvassing votes. This has violated the rules of Chinese Wikipedia and even cross-Wikipedia. After this behavior led WMF to take action, WMC not only refrained from self-reflection, but in turn discredited, accused and threat the Wikimedia Foundation, and called on its members to "fight against WMFOFFICE." in their group and controlled website.

Thus, we have no choice but came here to request Removing all WMC link cross-wiki and add them to black-link page in all Wikimedia project. @维基百科最忠诚的反对者, Itcfangye, 忒有钱, 折毛, and Yangwenbo99: @SickManWP, PhiLiP, 不爱思考得猪, Timmyboger, and BlackShadowG: Some other evidence will be provided if requestted. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 03:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any WMC links on meta? Could you show an example? meta上有WMC的链接吗（能否给个例子）？Itcfangye (talk) 04:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
[1]看这里, see here. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 04:18, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Itcfangye: I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 04:20, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that this page does not links to any external site.

Searching insource:"qiuwen.org.cn" on MetaWiki yields no result, but I believe what Pavlov2 means is to remove links to WMC from all WMF controlled websites. If my understanding is correct, I support the proposal. However, I believe it is more urgent to put a warning sign on every page describing WMC. --Yangwenbo99 (talk) 04:37, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for making the misunderstand, and thank you for your correction. I mean removing links to WMC from all WMF controlled websites. While I also support your idea of putting a warning sign on every page describing them. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 04:39, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, I fail to see the need or urgency here. Wikimedia tasks should not be driven by personal grudges or vendetta. --Zhenqinli (talk) 05:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is no "personal grudges or vendetta" involved here. One of the globally banned user was, and is likely to continue being, the person in charge of WMC and it affiliated websites. Due to the misleading name of WMC and the risk of meatpuppetry organized by this organization (which happened before), warning every user viewing relevant webpages about the relation between WMC and WMF and reminding them of WikiMedia policies about socking are the minimum actions that we need, in order to protect the whole community. --Yangwenbo99 (talk) 05:37, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, considering that some people involved in this conversation are not experts in English, would you refrain from using difficult words and Latin phases? --Yangwenbo99 (talk) 05:37, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My english is so poor. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 04:40, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another link containing WMC link, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Supported_by_Wikimedians_of_Mainland_China Pavlov2 07:42, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
partially removed on template. Needing more help to make sure the change is right. Pavlov2 08:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There have been a lot of unnecessary disruptions recently on the Chinese-language Wikipedia. I would suggest a period for people to cool down and stay with the status quo for now, until consensus could be reached or better proposals show up. There would not be too much harm of having historical WMC links. The main question for now may be: whether the WMC should be allowed to update their pages on Wikimedia sites in the future? --Zhenqinli (talk) 04:27, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The major site of WMC was certainly added to the blacklist, but see here[2]. This site was created by AnYiLin,propoganda for Qiuwen and not added to the black-link. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 04:32, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why you ping me. I am confused. Even though they claim they can represent China & all users in mainland China(丢掉幻想，准备斗争，中国China appear 53 times). As a China citizen(PRC), I don't think 300 WMC members can represents China or mainland China users. How dare they? “Techyan” is a founding member of Wikimedians of Mainland China (WMC), Techyan and his member hijack our community. A member of a WMC chat group, suggested reporting Hong Kong users to the national security police. That's why we rise up voted against Techyan and WMC member, they're going too far. --折毛 (talk) 05:48, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
thank you for adding enough evidence. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 06:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose remove all WMC related links in all Wikimedia projects. For example, based on the global search result of "wmcug.org.cn", some of the links were used for discussion and historical events organized by WMC etc. Removing all links may cause confusion to other users, especially users that do not involve or understand WMC related disputes. Also it may cause collateral damage easily. I recommend that should be handled by the local community instead of global RFC. Thank you. SCP-2000 09:49, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support I am of the opinion that while WMC itself can be kept, all relevant links to WMC in all Wikimedia projects must go. 不爱思考得猪 (talk) 13:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strong

Oppose for now:

1. The issue is fresh and raw.

2. I have noted maybe related RFCs here in meta which may use these.

3. SCP-2000's Global Search results seem useful for forensics:

A. Myself I had noticed a series of related doctored CH propaganda images in Commons already in 2016 and alerted a wiki or two in early 2021, only now I can better understand where they may have been coming from, cf. their 2021 spam directed at the Serbian colleagues:

"China-Serbia Cultural Exchange Program Merchandise Giveaway [!] Hello! Sorry for posting in English. I am one of the coordinators on the Chinese side of the China-Serbia Cultural Exchange Program, and I am here to tell you that you are eligible for a small gift from us for participating in it. Please refer to https://qiuwen[.]wmcug[.]org[.]cn/archives/198/china-serbia-cultural-exchange-program-merchandise-giveaway-serbia-2021/ [404 as of today] to sign up. Thanks! Wikimedians of Mainland China (User Group)"

B. Spot-checking these results, I have also noticed now equally worrying hits from 2018: "(Hidden text) [!] penetration of wiki", "XXX uses the domain name analytics[.]wmcug[.]org[.]cn, literally (analytics) which collects information such as IP, UA, and connects to the site page" in here that would need further professional research.

C. They seem to used, referred to and discussed in the thematic zhwiki portals: WP:OA2021/WMCUG

4. More generic moral rules, not specific to Meta: audiatur et altera pars, WP:NOTCENSORED , WP:GRAVEDANCING, WP:Divisiveness (the content is not what the title suggests), WP:Dissent is not disloyalty - indeed, I have spotted one zhwiki "dissenter's" nym translating as "Wikipedia's Most Loyal Opposition".

Zezen (talk) 13:43, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per SCP-2000. SHB2000 (talk | contibs) 00:04, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I will stand opposite for any kind of "Damnatio memoriae"--Jonathan5566^(talk) 13:34, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Really? Damnatio memoriae in the 21st century? —— Eric Liu_（Talk） 13:16, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per SCP-2000. SD hehua (talk) 03:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per SCP-2000.~~S i d~~ 10:35, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose rewriting history. 4nn1l2 (talk) 10:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support see https://w.wiki/45Kd . 桐生ここ (talk) 09:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @SCP-2000 @SHB2000, @Ericliu1912, @Jonathan5566, @4nn1l2

A quick note as we have cooperated here and in a couple of projects elsewhere. You may be interested that a week ago such Damnatio memoriae has happened to me, personally, and to a couple of other accounts, without any Meta vote and in projects where I (and they) am not banned or blocked and in Meta content itself.

Details and diffs here and on my Meta talk: User talk:Zezen#2022 JAN: Private Message from WMF revealed and on that off-wiki blog.

I also wonder if it is not related to my old vote and meta research, as per my old comment cum vote hereinabove, so do write there if yous have received a similar secret "you are a wikibaddie" or "fancy a videochat?" message from the WMF or related "active measures" accounts, zh-wiki related or otherwise. Zezen (talk) 15:48, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't understand your message despite reading it twice. 4nn1l2 (talk) 16:13, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't understand it either. SHB2000 (talk | contribs) 20:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Zezen: If you disagree T&S decision, I recommend appealing to Case Review Committee or raising a discussion in other places instead of discussing in here as it is off-topic. No comment on your situation as I am not familiar with it. Thank you. SCP-2000 16:58, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Zezen:It seemed that you want others to reveal something confidential that WMF trying to protect? If you really want to appeal, please directly ask T&S for help instead of talking here. Bows.--Pavlov2 04:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Due to qiuwen.wmc is dissolved and all the WMC links are mentioned for their recent global ban, seemingly this request is invalid.Pavlov2 07:54, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@4nn1l2 please invalid this case. Thanks Pavlov2 18:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TheresNoTime: please invalid this case, thank you. Pavlov2 17:36, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]