Talk:List of articles every Wikipedia should have/Expanded/Anthropology, psychology and everyday life

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Обоснования[edit]

Deinocheirus, спасибо за откат.

  • Ball game я убрал из-за того, что есть статья про мяч, а статья про игры вряд ли когда-нибудь достигнет размера 16к символов и при этом стать статусной.
  • Rugby league - подкласс от Rugby football. Для чего нужно 3 подкласса регби, когда список не охватывает все виды спорта?
  • Petanque удалил из списка, так как это подкласс Boules, который широко не распространён в мире, а является национальным видом спорта.
  • Freestyle wrestling и Greco-Roman wrestling - подклассы борьбы. Я их заменил на Combat sport и Self-defense
  • Snooker я сделал подклассом Cue sports
  • Nordic skiing убрал потому что статью трудно довести до размера 16к. Ни en:Nordic skiing, ни no:Nordiske grener нет дела до этой статьи-списка, который дублирует лыжные гонки и прыжки с трамплина.
  • Добавил Extreme sport и сделал Mountaineering его подклассом
  • Cycling и его подклассы перенёс за Motorcycle sport
  • Добавил Air sports, Ballroom dance, Underwater sports потому что это важные виды спорта, два из которых включают в себя ещё множество видов спорта, Эти статьи расширяют географию видов спорта и их легко довести до размера 16 к.

Надеюсь ничего не забыл. Maqivi (talk) 13:11, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • I do not think that expandability is a valid criterion for deciding that an item should be on every Wikipedia. Expandability may indeed be an indicator of a topic importance but not necessarily - a lot of articles on pop stars can easily be inflated to hundreds of Kb but this does not make these topics highly important.
    • You also do not take into consideration the role of certain sports in the human culture. Greco-Roman wrestling is a cultural staple being a recognized link between classic Olympics and modern sport, and ball games have quite a separate notability from ball since they evolved as first team sports in human history in countries all around the globe, including ancient China and pre-Columbian America.
    • There is, on the other hand, such aspect as previously identified notability. It is rather inconceivable that an actually important topic would in 15 years get a separate coverage in just 13 Wikipedias (I am specifically talking about Underwater sports).
    • I tend to agree that Petanque and Rugby league may be redundant on a global scale, and Nordic skiing perhaps does not have enough own weight to be kept in the list where both Skiing and Ski are already included, but then why do we need two separate articles about cue sports and snooker? Why not just one of them?
    • As I've mentioned in our previous discussion, Self-defence routinely described across Wikipedias not as a variation of sport but rather as a legal concept. So its notability in a legal sense can be discussed separately but it clearly does not belong to the sports list. And I also doubt the necessity of adding Combat sport to a list where Martial arts are already included.
    • To sum things up: I tend to agree that there are three, maybe four redundant items (Rugby league, Petanque, Nordic skiing, and possibly Freestyle wrestling - although in the last case I just may not know enough to assess its true value). And I agree that the list can probably benefit from adding Extreme sport, Ballroom dance (although why should it be in the sports section and not in Arts? You can actually see in the enWiki article that it is much more than just sport), and perhaps Air sports. All other exclusions/additions do not seem to me substantiated enough. I'd also really like to hear opinions of a couple more experienced Meta editors, such as Yerpo, Tximitx or Boivie. --Deinocheirus (talk) 00:12, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's good that Maqivi is trying to improve the list, because there is lots of room for improvements. And I think it's good that Deinocheirus is reviewing the changes so that we get a wider perspective of what items are best for the list. Unfortunately I don't have the time to review the items in question here myself, but I agree with Deinocheirus that if an item only exists in a few Wikipedias (like 13), it's probably an indication of that it's not a very notable topic. Boivie (talk) 06:15, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Deinocheirus, когда я говорю о расширении я имею ввиду обзорные статьи, которые охватывают несколько тем. Аналогом статей о поп-звёздах может быть National Football League, Super Bowl, Australian rules football, Floorball, которые популярны только в англоязычных странах. Подводный спорт объединяет несколько тем: Фридайвинг (37 интервики), Акватлон (7), спортивный дайвинг (3), Подводное ориентирование (5), Скоростные виды подводного плавания (16), Подводная охота (19), подводное регби (23), Подводный хоккей (27 интервики) и т.д.. Я считаю, что такие обзорные темы важны, вне зависимости от того, сколько ссылок они имеют. Многие статьи из списка создавались из-за того, что они оказались в списке, а не из-за того, что они важные.
      • Снукер я не добавлял, он уже был в списке. Я его подвинул ближе к бильярду. Снукер можно оставить, так как это один из самых популярных видов бильярда.
      • Боевые искусства - это часть от Единоборств. Например, борьба и бокс не входят в боевые искусства, а входят в единоборства. Самооборону можно перенести в другой раздел.
      • Бальные танцы могут быть искусством для англоязычных жителей земли, а для большинства остальных (китайцев, индийцев, африканцев ...) это вид спорта. Maqivi (talk) 10:45, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Regarding Underwater sports and Combat sport: not always wider topic is more important than a narrower one. For instance, Ball games that we discussed previously are important but Soccer is definitely more so. Swimming is more important than Aquatic sports, etc. Same here: Underwater sports is a somewhat artificial concept mechanically uniting several quite different types of sport (none of which is actually very popular), and thus receives less attention in professional literature. In each case there is need to choose between a wider and a narrower item - and I would choose Freediving over Underwater sports (if at all) and Marital arts over Combat sports, especially since we already have both Boxing and Wrestling in the list. --Deinocheirus (talk) 22:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Подводное плавание такое же механическое понятие, как игры в мяч. Посмотрел в русском, английском и немецком разделе (французского вообще нет) я и не нашёл ни одного источника, обычные статьи-списки.Maqivi (talk) 13:34, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • Well, in their current state these are of course abominable. In truth, it would be wrong to state that there are no sources dealing with ball games as an entity rather than with the object they are played with or with each one of them separately. One such source, for instance, can be seen at the British Library website; there are also entire books dedicated to the topic of ball games (not quite balls as "the object of the game" despite one of the titles) - [1], [2] etc. Nevertheless, consider myself persuaded on this one: if nobody is really interested in developing this item on any of the major Wikipedias, it is a good sign that the topic is not notable enough to be included in the 10,000 list. --Deinocheirus (talk) 17:56, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay in responding. I agree with the appraisals of Deinocheirus. However, in the case of dance, it is necessary to differentiate between ballroom dance and dancesport. The ballroom dance began as a social act, which subsequently has been evolving towards the artistic aspect. However, the dance competitions that we know and that have made it popular refer to the dancesport, which although based on ballroom dance, is a much more restricted discipline, where technique over art prevails. If you want to include dance as a sport discipline, it should be dancesport and not ballroom dance. --Tximitx (talk) 14:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]