Talk:List of articles every Wikipedia should have/Expanded/Biology and health sciences

Taxons Taxa or fruits[edit]

User:Brya, can you explain why you think the specific fruit articles are more relevant for this list, than the articles about the plants they grow on? And User:Til Eulenspiegel, can you explain why you think this list should have the taxon items instead of the items about the fruits? Boivie (talk) 12:46, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

They have been on the taxon items for years until suddenly moved recently. This sudden move is the result of infighting at WikiData, but it would result in most languages scores dropping dramatically since the longer articles are being counted at the "taxon" items. The stubs should actually all be at the same WikiData items as the longer articles so they can be counted here too, but many languages with stubs are being artificially segregated into separate "food" items where they are not counted here as they should. This is becoming a major hassle at WikiData as I have been having considerable difficulty since last May convincing other users of the importance of this "should have" project, and of having these articles all counted together on one item, not arbitrarily split as if they are not all about the same "should have" topic. The resistance to this idea from certain users who don't even speak the affected languages, has been flabbergasting, and you are seeing it spill over here. If there is anything users here can do to help at WikiData, please join in the discussion there. Thanks, Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 13:17, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Until recently I did not know of this list, but Til Eulenspiegel drew my attention to it. In itself I think this list is a good idea, to stimulate Wikipedias to offer readers useful information on key topics. However, Til Eulenspiegel (the proprietor of amwiki) uses this as a game to score points in. He does this by making (sub)minimum pages at amwiki (of very few words, and less content) and trying to move these into the Wikidata items that will give him the maximum score. To maximize the score of his own amwiki (he is the bureaucrat, admin, and main, almost sole user) he is willing to cause any amount of damage at Wikidata.

There are two reasons to link to the items on the fruits (/products): firstly, if the topic is say, tomato, why not take this at face value and link to the item on the tomato. Secondly, if the purpose is to have pages on, say, the tomato or the potato, then users should be encouraged to make pages on the tomato or the potato, and not necessarily on the plants that produce them. Most users who will start out on a page on the tomato or the potato will describe what they know, namely the tomato or the potato. These are big enough topics, and plenty of books have been written about them. So the beginners will profit from having the entries in the list linked to the items that the titles used here say they should be linked to. In addition, Wikipedias may make pages on the plant, which is a notable topic, but with nothing like the appeal that the tomato itself has. Of course it is also possible to make pages on both the plant and the product, but the TLDR stage will loom soon, and a split will begin to suggest itself. Actually, there are not just these two topics, but there is also the horticultural/agricultural aspect, a topic on which there also is (very) extensive literature, but this is academic, since so far noboy seems to have started separate Wikipedia pages on these topics. - Brya (talk) 17:09, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

P.S no such thing as "taxons" exists. The plural is "taxa". - Brya (talk) 17:09, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now you are making nonsense accusations against me you have not made previously, User:Brya, regarding my efforts to expand the Amharic wikipedia. If you have issues with my efforts to expand the Amharic Wikipedia or if you object to the Amharic Wikipedia being expanded, this is not the place to make such accusations, as I think you know. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 17:21, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Since our system balances and counts stubs as stubs by length, and it still requires a lot of work to expand them all to get a very high score (we at am. are still not even in the top 100) the idea that there is something wrong with making stubs is of course, nonsense -- aside from the fact that plenty of my recent article creations have been way more than just one sentence anyway, and anyone capable of contributing in Amharic is always welcome, can, and does continue to do so. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 22:17, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fruits are dominant over taxons because of agriculture and economy. From edit:

Q37453 (taxa)
Q3733836 (actual fruit)

Yes, some like edits can be questionable, but not this one.

Nobody cares about taxon when they say "tomato" "potato" logic. D1gggg (talk) 11:49, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

and it is possible to link from fruit-to-taxa using properties D1gggg (talk) 11:50, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Brya: I think it would be more specific to have agricultural/horticultural list with Q3733836 D1gggg (talk) 11:55, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

cooking list is here: Anthropology, psychology and everyday life D1gggg (talk) 12:59, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But if "fruits" are held to be "dominant" over "taxons", all of the languages that have been trying to expand this list would surely need to appear at the "dominant" "fruit" items, which would then become the primary items, making the "taxon" items only for the secondary articles. This seems like a more awkward solution with much more moving, but since most languages make little distinction between the topics anyway, I suppose it would make little difference which is designated as the primary item, so long as all the languages can count on the same page toward the completion goals of the list. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 16:17, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sitelinks cause way too much questions than they provide utility. D1gggg (talk) 00:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note I have seen only strong unwillingness from most language projects to be obligated to make secondary articles about the same species just to get back on the list. Eg., even English Wikipedia apparently came to a consensus in 2006 not to have split articles for apple and apple tree, if I understand correctly. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 16:28, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Taxon is main in botany, fruit is main in agriculture.

None of them is secondary. D1gggg (talk) 00:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Brya: edit here D1gggg (talk) 00:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tomato and potato aren't interesting from biological perspective?[edit]

w:List of model organisms - chicken is here, but not tomato or potato D1gggg (talk) 00:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would argue that tomato and potato taxa are more relevant to agriculture than biology

Similarly agriculture/horticulture actually deals with diseases around these taxa. D1gggg (talk) 19:21, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]