User talk:Hirolovesswords

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--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:25, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Sivad Heshimu Johnson

I am currently blocked from the English wikipedia. It is, IMO, a bullshit block, based on misinformation, so please don't ignore my comments here because of it.

On 2025-05-26 you dropped a prod on en:Sivad_Heshimu_Johnson, asserting it "Fails WP:Oneevent and WP:NOTMEMORIAL".

I count four events mentioned in the article

1. His account of being trapped, in a fire, was published in 2015.
2. He was a notable enough artist that people wrote about that.
3. He died a hero,
4. He had a fireboat named after him.

Some of those notability elements would be insufficient, all by themselves, to claim Johnson measured up to GNG. However GNG notability is cumulative.

If I were able to weigh in on en.wiki I would ask you to explain why you claimed one event, when clearly four events were documented. I am going to ask that here.

I've always thought Wikipedia contributors should comply with en:WP:BEFORE, which says those nominating articles for deletion have an obligation to perform their own web search first. I think it says that when someone feels an article is weak, but their web search reveals meaningful additional references that suggest the article's underlying topic is notable, deletion is not appropriate.

Since the article was started, in 2020, multiple additional notability factors have emerged.

1. In 2021 Becoming a diamond was published. Someone edited a book, based on his writing. It is not a big seller, but is, nevertheless, a notability factor.
2. In 2023 the publishers of The Moth, the place where Johnson published his account of being trapped in a fire, while trying to rescue a victim who later succumbed to smoke inhalation, published a book that cited Johnson's article as an example of good story-telling...[1]
3. The Carnegie Foundation named Johnson a hero [2]
4. Johnson was one of six heroic individuals who were the subject of an academic paper entitled (Re)positioning and (Re)framing in 'The Moth’s' Personal Narratives

As above, some of these factors, alone, would be insufficient to make Johnson notable enough to measure up to GNG, all by themselves... but notability is cumulative.

Update

Since I wrote the above I reviews WP:MEMORIAL. Are you sure you are interpreting it correctly?

I am going to offer you a history lesson. About 20 years ago I started two articles on two survivors of the 2001 destruction of the World Trade Center, en:Stanley Praimnath and en:Brian Clark (September 11 survivor). They found their way from above the collision zone of the one Tower that had a surviving, but damaged stairway. At their AFD deletionists argued that merely surviving the attack did not make someone notable enough for an article.

I learned that, prior to my arrival on the Wikipedia, there were contributors who were trying to start an article on all 3,000 victims from September 11, 2001. They received pushback because, for most victims the only sources were things like the obituary pages from the funeral homes that buried them. Those sources were not authoritative references. And so those articles had almost nothing to say about those people. 343 NYC cops and firefighters died, and, even though they are recognized as heros, almost none of them have any known details about their heroism.

I suggest that this discussion that triggered the purge of non-notable articles on 9-11 survivors, victims or heroes, was a significant factor for NOTMEMORIAL. There are people who oppose coverage of ANYONE associated with 9-11. And yet the Wikipedia has a significant number of articles on individuals associated with 9-11, who weren't notable prior to 9-11.

I started articles on en:Orio Palmer, and several other members of the 343. Some of these people had meaningful substantive things written about them, so they measure up to GNG. I suggest Johnson also had meaningful, substantive things written about him. So, I question whether NOTMEMORIAL should apply to him.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 08:55, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

• Someone else removed your prod. I am surprised you subsequently nominated the article for deletion, with the same dubious claims, ONEEVENT and NOTAMEMORIAL. Geo Swan (talk) 16:02, 1 June 2025 (UTC)