Grants:Conference/WikIndigenous

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statusIneligible
WikIndigenous Conference
We seek to organize a Conference to address increasing participation of Latin American indigenous communities in the Wikimedia movement.
targetWikimedia projects in Spanish and in indigenous languages of Latin America
strategic priorityIncreasing Participation
event datesOctober 28-30, 2019
amount-localUSD 29,075.50
amountplease add the amount you are requesting (USD)
typeorganization & group
nonprofitNo
creatorBarrioflores
organization• Rising Voices in collaboration with Wikimedians of Colombia, and others to be added.


Event overview[edit]

Purpose and vision

Please give a brief description of the event you are planning. What do you hope to accomplish during the event? Why is this event important for your community?

This Conference will facilitate a space to discuss the challenges facing indigenous communities in Latin America to fully participate in the Wikimedia movement, but also share experiences to help identify strategies to support these communities that want to share knowledge. By bringing together indigenous Wikimedians currently participating to share knowledge about their cultures and languages in projects in Spanish and in their native languages, as well as representatives from Wikimedia affiliates from the Iberocoop network and other partner institutions, the event will provide peer exchange sessions to improve the Wikimedians’ abilities to build upon and sustain current Wikimedia projects in indigenous languages. In addition, these peer learning sessions will focus on activities not exclusive to languages, but also indigenous peoples’ participation in creating knowledge in Wikimedia projects in Spanish. Outcomes from the event include:

  1. A collaboratively-written “road map” guide for communities interested in starting or sustaining a Wikimedia project, as well as for institutions that would like to support. The focus of the guide should be that the project are identified as needs by the communities themselves.
  2. Peer-led discussions regarding ongoing challenges facing indigenous communities that want to participate in the Wikimedia movement with a focus on providing recommendations or solutions to present collectively to decision-making bodies.
  3. Skills-building sessions that go beyond editing, although there will be opportunities for indigenous Wikimedians to improve their abilities to administering sites. These skills will also include strategies to organize events, recruit and retain new editors, and to better understand the structures of the Wikimedia movement.

Please note: we hope to add more allied organizations to take part in the planning of this event. Members of the proposal team will share the proposal at the upcoming Iberocoop conference and invite more Wikimedians to take part. Important details

Please add key information to the table below. The dates, location and number of participants can be estimates and do not need to be finalized at this time.

Proposed date(s) October 28-30, 2019
Proposed location Antigua, Guatemala
Number of participants 40
Event page TBA
Primary contact person Eddie Avila

Background[edit]

Community input[edit]

Use the results from the community engagement survey to fill in the table below. Since you cannot cover all topics or meet all needs at one event, prioritisation is important. Please rank the priority of each topic, skill, project or problem as high, medium or low. Finally, please answer the questions below the table.


Description Priority
Strategic discussions:

What are the top issues affecting your community that need to be discussed in person?

Barriers for participation, access to the internet, protection of community data, how to address linguistic challenges (e.g. a lack of unified writing system), incentives and motivations, types of knowledge, how to work with languages that are primarily oral High
Capacity development:

Are there important skills that many people in your community need to learn?

Building partnerships, recruiting and retaining new editors, building community, how to navigate incubator, outreach, and how to raise awareness, how to organize edit-a-thons, working with universities, High
Working groups:

Are there joint projects that need to be planned in person?

Building a support system, experience exchange, interface translation, planning online campaigns, Medium
Community building:

Are there other in-person activities are important for community building?

working with mentors to solve specific technical issues, build relationships with partners Medium

' Survey analysis:

  1. How many people did you send the survey to? How many people responded to the survey?

45 people completed the survey. We sent the survey to Wikimedians from indigenous communities with whom we've been in contact. In addition, we sent to representatives from allied groups.

  1. Did you see consensus around shared goals that this community wants to focus on in the next 12 months? What were the top 2 goals?

We divided the results into the two target audience to see differences in the priorities and needs.

  1. Based on survey responses, what are the most important things your community should do at the conference to achieve those goals?

Context[edit]

It is helpful to get an understanding of why this event is important to your community, and what experiences you have had in the past. Please answer the applicable questions below.

1. What inspired your community to begin planning this event?
There are three major reasons for proposing this event:
  • The ongoing Wikimedia strategy discussions - I am currently serving on the Diversity Working Group and one of its focus is to explore ways to “include missing voices and bridge gaps in content, reach, and users (in terms of both access and contributions).” From our ongoing discussions, it has been evident that the inclusion of indigenous communities is an important demographic that does not always receive a steady stream of attention. We are hoping that members of that Working Group can play a role in helping to organize this event.
  • Rising Voices conducted a mapping project to identify opportunities and challenges facing indigenous communities that want to share knowledge in their native languages. One of the recommendations from that project included facilitating opportunities like for peer learning and exchange, but also continue to strengthen this important model of allies that currently exists (eg. a WMF affiliate accompanying an indigenous community that chooses to create a Wikimedia project in their language).
  • The International Year of Indigenous Languages is currently underway. This year-long awareness campaign coordinated by UNESCO aims to raise the visibility about the importance of indigenous languages around the world. This is an excellent opportunity to highlight current initiatives across the region to share knowledge in indigenous languages of Latin America. This proposed event will be co-located as part of a week-long “Festival” of Indigenous Languages and the Internet, and select participants from this proposed Wikimedia event will also have an opportunity to share their experiences with a wider audience at a public conference and have the opportunity to interact with Guatemalan government and international officials.


2. How does this event relate to other activities that your community is working on?
As highlighted above, Rising Voices has been involved with this work through our participation in the Wikimedia 2030 Diversity Working Group, as well as our mapping project. We’ve also been advising and assisting different groups in Bolivia and Guatemala interested in sharing knowledge in native languages.

Others included in this proposal include:

  • Wikimedians of Ecuador which has been providing workshops for a project called “We Take Over the Wiki” which is sponsored by DW Akademie, which focuses on supporting Ecuadorian indigenous communities to critically analyze how their communities are represented in Wikipedia in Spanish and to learn how to edit this information.
  • Wikimedians of Colombia has also been active in providing workshops for Arahuaco women.
  • Wikimedians of Bolivia has historically been very active in supporting the Wikipedia in Aymara project.
3. Please list the priorities identified in the report from the last conference organized by this community. What progress have you made in those areas?
This is the first conference of its kind


4. If your community has hosted a similar conference in the past, what key lessons were learned, and what would you like to improve on?
Rising Voices has organized, co-organized or supported nine different workshops in six different Latin American countries. Many of these workshops included local Wikimedia affiliates as important partners. What we learned from those events:
  • The importance of peer learning and exchange
  • The importance of participants in helping to create the program
  • The importance of offering scholarships because it is unlikely that there are other funding sources to offer these opportunities. However, we also want to make sure that the scholarships to go to those that are already active and have the potential to continue participating

Plan[edit]

Venue and Logistics[edit]

1. If the venue is more than 1 hour away from a major airport or transportation hub, how will participants travel to the event venue?
Antigua, Guatemala is located 41 kilometers away from the Guatemala City international airport. Frequent shuttle buses transport arriving passengers to their hotel in Antigua taking approximately 60 minutes to arrive. In the event that a flight would arrive outside of shuttle operating hours, we will arrange for a taxi to pick-up or drop-off.
2. Is the event venue within walking distance from the hotel? If not, how will people travel between the two locations?
The hotel we’ve tentatively identified to host attendees is located at a 10-minute walk (9 blocks) from the event venue. Antigua is a very walkable city and most attendees will choose this option.
3. Is the event venue and hotel accessible for people with physical disabilities?
Yes, the event venue has facilities for people with physical disabilities. In the event, an attendee is unable to walk to and from the event venue, we will arrange for transportation.
4. Do you anticipate any challenges with using the space for the event you are planning?
We do not anticipate any significant challenges with using this space.


Friendly space policy[edit]

Please link to the friendly space policy that your community will be using for this event.

We will follow the Wikimedia Foundation's Friendly Space policy.

Participation[edit]

It is crucial that most participants have a minimum level of Wikimedia experience so that they can engage actively in workshops and discussions. Please answer all applicable questions below.

1. Please describe the target audience for this conference or event.
The two target audiences for this event are:
  • Wikimedians from indigenous communities contributing knowledge about their culture and language to Wikipedia in Spanish or participating in a Wikimedia project in their native language.
  • Wikimedians and other institutions that are currently supporting communities or would like to support these communities.
2. If your conference has an outreach component, how will you ensure engagement with these participants after the conference, and what impact do you see them having on the projects?
Prior to the event, we will create a social media channel chosen by the participants to begin connecting with one another prior to the event. Following the event, we expect that the participants may commit to proposing a structure to build a regional support system.
3. Are you thinking about inviting WMF staff to attend or participate in the event? If yes, please list individuals or teams who you may want to invite, or describe how you would like WMF staff to be involved in the event.

TBD

Scholarships[edit]

1. How many scholarships would you like to offer?
Ideally, we would like to offer 30 scholarships.
2. What expenses will the scholarship cover?
We would like to offer two types of scholarships:

Full - this will include roundtrip transportation and shared accommodations. Partial - this will provide shared accommodations and be targeted at Wikimedians from Guatemala who may be able to pay for their own transport. Priority for these scholarships will go to indigenous Wikimedians. We hope that affiliate and institution representatives that may want to participate can secure external funding to attend.

3. How will scholarship recipients be selected?
A scholarship committee will be convened to review scholarship applications and there will be a special emphasis on recommendation letters.


Resources and risks[edit]

Describe the resource potential for successfully executing this project and the key risks/threats.

Resources[edit]

Organizing team
Team User Names
WMF Liaison - Barrioflores
Logistics Jotzun
Conference Program Caleidoscopic
Scholarships
Communications
Volunteer Coordinators
Other team members Edjoerv, Mpbonillap, TBA

Risks[edit]

  • There are risks that this will be a one-time event and that participants will not continue or follow-through.
  • We seek to get a wide range of input and participation in the implementation of this project, but we know that funding is limited and that we won’t be able to invite everyone interested in attending.
  • Three days is a limited amount of time to try and address everything on the priority list.

Minimize the risks:

  • We will spend time building community among event participants by organizing pre-event video calls and by creating a social media channel to establish relationships.
  • We will draw upon experience from WMF staff and other affiliate members with experience with program planning to help further narrow our focus and suggest activities to address the priorities more efficiently and effectively.

Budget[edit]

Please provide a detailed breakdown of project expenses according to the instructions here. See Budget Guidelines.

Event budget table
Number Category Item description Unit Number of units Cost per unit Total cost Currency Notes
1 Meeting Space Main room + breakout rooms 1 day 3 1,000 3,000 USD Meeting space at the Spanish Cultural Center in Antigua, Guatemala. Covered by in-kind donation.
2 Event Planner Logistics 1 day 10 80 800 USD To provide logistical support prior and during the event. Overall logistics coordinator for the Festival of Indigenous Languages and Internet. Shared cost.
3 Food and beverages Lunch & snacks for Day 1 Per person 1 lunch & two coffee breaks 22 880 USD Quote from CFCE Antigua. For use of the meeting space, catering cannot be brought in from the outside.
4 Food and beverages Lunch & snacks for Day 2 Per person 1 lunch & two coffee breaks 22 880 USD Quote from CFCE Antigua. For use of the meeting space, catering cannot be brought in from the outside.
5 Food and beverages Lunch & snacks for Day 3 Per person 1 lunch & two coffee breaks 22 880 USD Quote from CFCE Antigua. For use of the meeting space, catering cannot be brought in from the outside.
6 Lodging For Scholarship recipients Per person 4 25 3000 USD Shared accommodations for 30 people for 4 nights
7 Flights For Scholarship recipients 1 roundtrip flight 30 600 18000 USD We do not know who the scholarship recipients will be at the moment, but we know that they will come from Latin America. Some flights from certain countries are less expensive, and we calculated an average based on participants coming from neighboring countries, within Guatemala, and from Central and South America.
8 Ground transportation For Scholarship recipients 1 roundtrip flight 30 25 750 USD to and from Guatemala city international airport
9 Food Closing Dinner 1 meal 40 20 800 USD closing dinner for all participants including non-scholarship
10 T-shirts Souvenirs 1 t-shirt 8 40 320 USD closing dinner for all participants including non-scholarship
11 Admin Costs Admin Costs 1 2000 USD Admin costs related to the implementation of the project, including bank fees for wire transfers to vendors, accounting costs, travel arrangement costs
11 Contingency Expenses 5% of total amount 1,565.50 USD Unexpected costs
Total cost of event
US$ 32,875.50
Total amount requested from the Conference and Event Grants program
US$ 29,075.50
Additional sources of revenue that may fund part of this event, and amounts funded
We have received a commitment from the CFCE Antigua - Centro de Formación de la Cooperación Española en La Antigua Guatemala for free use of meeting space and all of the corresponding facilities (eg. internet connection, overhead projector, etc).

We will also utilize the assistance of the Festival logistics coordinator whose costs are covered by other sources of funding. This individual will help with the booking of hotel, coordinating the catering, and be available for other logistics.

Please confirm that you are aware that changes to the approved budget beyond 10% in any category must be approved in advance.

Yes

Discussion[edit]

Endorsements[edit]

Do you think this project should be selected for a Conference Grant? Please add your name and rationale for endorsing this project in the list below. Other feedback, questions or concerns from community members are also highly valued, but please post them on the talk page of this proposal.

  • Support Support, It is very important to have this activity in Guatemala because we have realized that there are few people interested in using the internet for the preservation of the Mayan, Xinka and Garinagu languages. As some in the previous comments say that we are few digital activists here in Iximulew (Guatemala) and they are absolutely right, that is why we need to recruit more members to grow our network. (talk)
  • Support Support, as part of the organizing team and with the experience we've learned from "Nos Tomamos La Wiki" project, I am sure we can carry this on. The WikIndigenous conference will be a great chance for our movement not only to learn from the insights we've gathered through these years, but to reach out to communities that have always been on the rough side of the process of building knowledge. It advances our mission of seeking knowledge equity since these underrepresented communities will get a chance to be seen upfront and they will get the chance to not only read Wikipedia and its sister projects, but also to edit and contribute to the sum of all human knowledge, this time with a very strong focus on *all*, knowing that they are indeed a part of all humans. Edjoerv (talk) 06:11, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
  • We need new voices ans perspectives Theklan (talk) 12:00, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Support, Initiatives to engage and give voice to indigenous people are few. As I can see for the immediately above comment, indigenous people do are engaged in the project and support it. We need to support initiatives, even in hard contexts, and gatherings are the best places to create and promote new projects. --Sahaquiel9102 (talk) 03:39, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
    • @Sahaquiel9102: As far I know all the members of Wikimedistas de Colombia, the group you are giving this opinion on behalf, are not indigenous. Being clear: of course "we need to support initiatives, even in hard contexts" yes, but in this specific case you are asking support in the name of a social group that you are not part with historical claimings of autonomy. "And gatherings are the best places to create and promote new projects", well, this is very very discusable as Maor and Galio pointed. ProtoplasmaKid (WM-MX) (talk) 17:49, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Because the revitalization of the native peoples in the countries is important. LajujTz'ikin (talk) 02:51, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Support

Greetings to all, from Oaxaca Mexico. My name is Rodrigo Pérez, I am an indigenous Zapotec, I am a volunteer editor of wikipedia and I am the promoter of the proposal. My English is very limited so if you read in Spanish I recommend reading my comment in that language, here you will find both versions.

My message is for the person who makes the decision of the proposal. Before starting to write the points of why I am of the proposal, I want to go into some clarifications.

1. I think they are qualifying the person who is applying and not the proposal.

2. The proposal comes from a group of editors who speak in indigenous languages, there is a survey that supports this situation, it is not an idea of ​​Barrioflores. One of these participants is the person mentioned by Maor X.

3. I ask respect for our companion barrioflores. Our group is supported by Barriofloes, because it knows English and has supported us before in the management.

4. My other colleagues, like me, do not know much English and it is very difficult for us to enter into discussion with you, that is why you do not see our presence in the endorsement. We read them and we see that their comments are very hurtful and cruel. We know Protomactic and we have always respected and He know what our work. We consider it a great ally and it hurts the way you are assessing barrioflores and not our proposal.


Now I am writing to you about the reasons why I am in favor.

1. The event in Guatemala supported last year had repercussions on the country's national policy. The struggle of the indigenous peoples goes further and with the help of Wikipedia, for the first time there was a public conference in the indigenous language. It was also achieved that more than half of the editors were women and not only the capacities of the assistants in Wikipedia were strengthened, if we do not cover more, the topic of indigenous languages ​​on the internet is on the political agenda of the country. It is true, it has not been written as it should be but they must understand that we do not have access to their opportunities and amenities. The project is still valid and the group of users of indigenous languages ​​want to see where we should promote the awareness of Wikimedia. What is written on Wikipedia in Spanish affects us in our daily lives and it is our duty to make them understand that our participation in a world that they speak and write about us is fundamental. That is the true meaning of the proposal.

2. I request that the report of said event be read and a judgment be issued free of intolerance and racism.

3. One of the findings of the report on indigenous languages ​​in wikipedia, which apparently does not want to see, is that Wikimedia does not want to give access to indigenous publishers. Sample of this, are the positions shown in this proposal. Wikimedia needs more the presence of us than we of Wikimedia, that should be clear.

4. The resource that was offered last year was not spent in its entirety and was returned, that is proof that we try to spend as little as possible. We know that the economic resource must be taken care of. 5. We consider that we have the same rights as you as Wikipedians to meet and get to know each other. We dedicate our time creating articles, improving the barbarities that write about us in wikipedia in Spanish and we will continue to knock on their doors, we only ask for respect to our proposal. If it is not accepted there is no problem, so are the requests, we understand that very well. Only be respectful, analytical and above all very professional when issuing their judgments.

Finally, I say goodbye with the following two questions.

UNESCO declared the year 2019 as the international year of indigenous languages, with the aim of making the world aware of the dangers of the disappearance of a part of human knowledge. Many organizations and institutions are making and participating in this challenge.

In this respect, what will Wikimedia do? Are you interested in the topic of indigenous languages?

Through this proposal we are proposing how we want to be included. Just please read it.

And the question two

Imagine that you are the guests at the meeting, what will your position be if this proposal comes to you?

==

Saludos a todos, desde Oaxaca México. Mi normbre es Rodrigo Pérez, Soy indígena zapoteco, soy voluntario editor de wikipedia y soy promotor de la propuesta. Mi ingles es muy limitado por lo que si usted lee en español le recomiendo leer mi comentario en esa lengua, aquí encontrará las dos versiones.

Mi mensaje es para la persona que toma la decisión de la propuesta. Antes de comenzar a escribir los puntos del porque estoy de la propuesta, quiero entrar en unas aclaraciones.

1. Me parece que están calificando a la persona que esta aplicando y no a la propuesta.

2. La propuesta viene de un grupo de editores hablantes en lenguas indigenas, hay una encuesta que soporta esta situación, no es una idea de Barrioflores. Uno de estos participantes es la persona que menciona Maor X.

3. Pido respeto hacia nuestro compañero barrioflores. Nuestro grupo se apoya en Barriofloes, porque sabe ingles y nos ha apoyado anteriormente en la gestión.

4. Mis demás compañeros, al igual que yo, no sabemos mucho ingles y nos cuesta mucho entrar en discusión con ustedes, por eso no ven ustedes nuestra presencia en el endormsement. Nosotros los leemos y vemos que sus comentarios son muy hirientes y crueles. A ProtoplasmaKid (WM-MX) lo conocemos y sabe cual ha sido nuestro trabajo, siempre lo hemos tratado y respetado. Lo consideramos un gran aliado y nos duele la forma como esta valorando a barrioflores y no a nuestra propuesta.


Ahora les escribo acerca de los motivos por que estoy a favor.

1. El evento en Guatemala apoyado el año pasado tuvo repercusiones en la politica nacional del país. La lucha de los pueblos indígenas va más alla y con ayuda de Wikipedia se logró que por primera vez hubiera una conferencia pública en lengua indígena. Se logró ademas que más de la mitad de editores eran mujeres y no solo se fortalecieron las capacidades de los asistentes en Wikipedia, si no abarcamos más, el tema de lenguas indígenas en internet está en la agenda política del país.

Es cierto, no se ha escrito como se debería pero deben entender que no tenemos acceso a sus oportunidades y comodidades. El proyecto sigue vigente y el grupo de usuarios de lenguas indígenas queremos ver hacia donde debemos impulsar la sensibilización de Wikimedia. Lo escrito en Wikipedia en español nos afecta en la vida diaria y es nuestro deber hacerles entender que nuestra participación en un mundo que hablan y escriben sobre nosotros es fundamental. Ese es el verdadero sentido de la propuesta.

2. Solicito que se lea el informe de dicho evento y emitir un juicio libre de intolerencia y racismo.

3. Uno de los hallazgos del informe sobre lenguas indigenas en wikipedia, que al parecer no se quiere ver, es que Wikimedia no quiere dar acceso a editores indígenas. Muestra de esto, son las posturas que se muestran en esta propuesta. Wikimedia necesita más la presencia de nosotros que nosotros de Wikimedia, eso debe quedar claro.

4. El recurso que se ofreció el año pasado no se gastó en su totalidad y fue devuelto, eso es muestra de que tratamos de gastar lo más mínino. Sabemos que el recurso económico debe ser cuidado.

5. Consideramos que tenemos los mismos derechos que ustedes como wikipedistas de reunirnos y conocernos. Destinamos nuestro tiempo creando artículos, mejorando las barbaridades que escriben sobre nosotros en wikipedia en español y seguiremos tocando sus puertas, solo pedimos respeto a nuestra propuesta. Si no es aceptada no hay problema, así son las solicitudes, eso lo entendemos muy bien. Solo sean respetuosos, analíticos y sobre todo muy profesionales al momento de emitir sus juicios.

Finalmente me despido con las siguientes dos preguntas.

UNESCO declaro el año 2019 como el año internacional de las lenguas indígenas, con el objetivo de sensibilizar al mundo sobre los peligros de la desaparición de una parte del conocimiento humano. Muchos organimos e instituciones están haciendo y partiipando en este reto.

Al respecto, Wikimedia que va a hacer? está interesado en el tema de lenguas indígenas? Nosotros a traves de esta propuesta les estamos proponiendo como queremos ser incluidos. Solo por favor leánla.

Y la pregunta dos:

Imaginnense que ustedes son los invitados a la reunión, cuál será su postura si les llega esta propuesta?

Zapoteco diiste (talk) 17:07, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
(Español) Hola Rodrigo, contestaré a tus comentarios dada la alusión que has hecho a mi persona. Como te lo he dicho previamente, tienes toda mi admiración y respeto en tu labor como activista y te pido disculpas honestas si mis palabras pudieran lastimarte, no es la intención. Hasta este punto desconozco el alcance del liderazgo y participación de activistas indígenas como tú en esta propuesta. He sabido en otros casos de Wikimedia y otras organizaciones en que hay personas que acostumbran pedir fondos en nombre de alguien que no son ni representan. Esto puede sonarte incluso familiar. Tal es mi interés en el tema que a través de mi organización hemos apoyado voluntariamente siempre en lo posible, con total respeto como personas y a sus autonomías. Yo mismo apoyé en el pasado esfuerzos como el presupuesto que pediste para hacer el estudio sobre Wikipedia en lenguas indígenas que mencionas al considerar que tal visión era necesaria y saber cual era la realidad es un buen punto de partida. De hecho, me extraña mucho que sabiendo mi voluntad de apoyar y ser aliado como me nombras, simplemente la comunicación hacia mi se haya desvanecido. Mi oposición principal a este grant es que hoy, a diferencia de hace años, es que soy escéptico que (otra vez) un evento presencial va a poder ser la solución a que se pueda destrabar el tema de lenguas indígenas en Wikipedia y sobretodo la de mi propio país. Me resulta difícil creer que un nuevo evento tendrá el resultado de esa inclusión de la que hablas. Si tú como integrante de la nación zapoteca estás interesado en editar, adelante, eres muy bienvenido y cuentas con mi apoyo y no sólo el mío. Pero tu ejemplo es perfecto para ejemplificar mi escepticismo, siendo honesto desde que platicamos en 2014 sobre convertirte en editor a la fecha ni el estudio que hiciste te animó a volver a editar en la incubadora o a volver a crear más artículos. Quedé gratamente sorprendido que lo hiciste recientemente en la Wikipedia en cakchiquel, una lengua que no sabía que conocías. Pero desde que nos encontramos en Oaxaca nunca más recibí ningún mensaje más sobre continuar editando la Incubadora. Entiendo que hay razones detrás de fondo (brecha digital, barreras lingüisticas, barreras tecnológicas, falta de tiempo libre, condiciones adversas en el país, etcétera), pero explicar esto ayudaría mucho a que puedas comprender, igualmente, las razones de mi oposición. ¿De verdad no hay otra forma de comenzar a organizar a las comunidades más que haciendo eventos?
Finalmente, para quitar cualquier duda sobre la real presencia de las personas indígenas liderando las propuestas, las peticiones de fondos pueden hacerse totalmente en español desde hace dos años. Ni tú ni ninguna persona integrante de pueblos, naciones, colectivos o grupos indígenas necesitan la intervención de un tercero para poder tanto editar como solicitar apoyos. Una vez más, te reitero mi oferta de ayuda y mi disposición a dialogar para, eventualmente, retirar mi oposición y apoyar el proyecto. Saludos, ProtoplasmaKid (WM-MX) (talk) 21:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
(English) Hello Rodrigo, I will answer your comments given the allusion you have made to my person. As you know, you have all my admiration and respect in your hard work as an activist and I apologize if my words could hurt you, it is not the intention. At this point, I don't know the scope of the leadership and participation of indigenous activists like you in this proposal. I have heard in other cases of Wikimedia and other organizations that there are people who usually ask for funds in the name of someone they are not or, worst, they don't represent. This may sound familiar to you. Such is my interest in increase the inclusion that through my organization we have supported voluntarily whenever possible, with total respect as people and their autonomies. I myself supported in the past efforts such as endorse the Grant and made the advocacy to made possible the research on Wikipedia in indigenous languages ​​that you mention when considering that such a vision was necessary and knowing what the reality was a good starting point. In fact, I am very surprised that knowing my willingness to support and be an ally as you name me, I was ghosted and the communication to me has vanished. My main opposition to this grant is that today, unlike years ago, I am simply skeptical that (again) a face-to-face event will be the solution to unlock the topic of indigenous languages ​​in Wikipedia and especially that of my own country I find it hard to believe that a new event will have clear results. If you as a member of the Zapotec nation are interested in editing, go ahead, you are very welcome and you have my support and not just mine. But your own example is perfect to exemplify my skepticism, being honest since we talked in 2014 and 2015 about becoming an editor or after the study you made you never returned to edit in the incubator or to recreate more articles. I was pleasantly surprised that you did it recently in Wikipedia in Cakchiquel, a language that I did not know you knew. But since we were in Oaxaca, I never received any more message about continuing to edit the Zapotec Incubator. I understand that there are reasons behind the background (digital divide, linguistic barriers, technological barriers, lack of free time, adverse conditions in the country, etc.), but explaining this would greatly help you to understand, equally, the reasons for my opposition. Is there really no other way to start organizing communities than doing events?
Finally, to remove any doubt about the real presence of indigenous people leading the proposals, requests for funds can be made entirely in Spanish since two years at least. Neither you nor any person from peoples, nations, groups or indigenous groups need the intervention of a third person to be able to edit or request grants. Once again, I reiterate my offer of help and my willingness to dialogue to, eventually, withdraw my opposition and support the project. Regards, ProtoplasmaKid (WM-MX) (talk) 21:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
(Español) Rodrigo, igual que mi compañero Protoplasmakid, voy a contestarte debido a que me has mencionado en tu respuesta. Primero que todo, si bien es cierto que participé en el estudio porque creí originalmente que se podía obtener algo positivo del mismo; únicamente participé como entrevistado debido a que soy un editor de una lengua indígena, la cual sabes bien que he trabajado prácticamente yo sólo porque tú estabas presente en la entrevista. Participar en una encuesta no implica que estés de acuerdo con el resultado y las conclusiones obtenidas, que dicho sea de paso, han sido las mismas que todos los capítulos de la región han venido señalando por años -por lo que en realidad, no se hizo nada nuevo y se gastó dinero del movimiento en como se dicen en español, llover sobre mojado. Nuevamente, mi compromiso con las lenguas indígenas y minoritarias en general siempre ha sido firme, dentro de la medida de mis posibilidades de tiempo y recursos -incluso he donado equipos a editores indígenas, que si ha ayudado a reforzar su compromiso con el movimiento- y mi trabajo con los proyectos Wikimedia en lenguas indígenas y minoritarias lleva casi tantos años como llevo como contribuyente activo al movimiento, por lo que sé claramente de que manera se da vida a una comunidad, y de que manera no, cosa que alguien externo al movimiento no conoce ni va a conocer -y hacer un evento de este tipo no da vida a una comunidad, no genera contenido ni levanta ánimos entre los editores; solamente atrae atención de los medios de comunicación y realmente con eso no se hace mucho, porque al final cada quien se va para sus casas y al tercer día se le enfriaron los ánimos, a menos que haya una estrategia de seguimiento y soporte, que ésta propuesta no tiene por ningún lado. Como señaló Protoplasmakid, hay muchas barreras al desarrollo de los proyectos Wikimedia en lenguas indígenas y minoritarias, desde la brecha digital y las barreras tecnológicas e idiomáticas, hasta la situación socioeconómica -pero explícame tú, ¿de que sirve hacer viajar a un evento en otro país a editores que tienen todas estas limitantes que acabo de mencionar, aparte de generar dos días de ruido en los medios y prestigio para el organizador? No hace falta hablar inglés para avanzar en el movimiento, sobre todo cuando la Fundación Wikimedia tiene staff especializado en América Latina que habla español como lengua materna y que están más que dispuestos a ayudar a redactar una solicitud de financiamiento, o un proyecto -así como nosotros mismos estamos a la orden para lo que salga, siempre y cuando no sea para malgastar fondos del movimiento en eventos que no generarán ningún impacto.
(English) Rodrigo, like my colleague Protoplasmakid did, I'm answering you since you mentioned me in your comment. First of all, while it is true that I participated in that research, it was simply because I believed back then that something new and positive would come out of it, and I only participated as an interviewee since I am also an editor in an indigenous language, which you know very well I have worked on mostly alone since you were present in that interview. Participating in an interview does not necessarily imply one agrees with the conclusions and results obtained, which by the way, are exactly the same all the chapters from the region have raised for years -which means that nothing new was done or found out. Again, my commitment to the development of indigenous and minority languages cannot be put into question, since the majority of my contributions since 2005 are to projects in those languages and I have always contributed with my time and resources as much as I can -I have even given away equipment to indigenous editors, which has indeed reinforce and strenghten their commitment with the movement, so I do know from my own experience what can help an indigenous Wikimedia community and what cannot work, unlike someone external to the movement who knows little or nothing about its mechanics. Organizing an event of this type does not help the development of a nascent Wikimedia community, because it does not generate content, it doesn't attract interest in the editors of the same language either; it merely attracts the media and that doesn't help in the end because after a few days, the interest of the attendees dissolves unless there is a follow-up strategy, which this project does not have. In the same way Protoplasmakid pointed out, there are many barriers to the development of projects in indigenous and minority languages, from the digital gap and technological and linguistic barriers, to the socio-economic situation, but you tell me, what's the benefit of traveling to an event abroad for editors that have all the above mentioned limitations, apart from being in the media for a couple of days and generating prestige and media exposure to the organizer? There is no need to have a a good command of English anyway to submit a grant request or obtain help from other wikimedians of WMF staff, as even the WMF has dedicated staff who are native Spanish speakers and who are more than happy to help, like we are also to design and implement a project, as long as it does not misuse precious movement funds in events that do not generate any impact.

Maor X (talk) 09:27, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Support Reading through the proposal, I totally believe this is a very good idea. Although, I am not from the targeted community, I can identify with the need to organize something like this, which can draw in editors to participate in the indigenous Wikipedias. I went through the comments above, and I think some very important issues were raised. Hopefully, a proper discussion can eventually shape this event into something that would greatly achieve its intended goals. Cheers!--Jamie Tubers (talk) 11:52, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Saludos desde Süchimma, la Guajira, Colombia. Soy Leo Fernández indígena wayuu.

Admirable el esfuerzo que hacen por reunirnos, por darle un espacio a los pueblos indígenas y bueno, de dedicarle un tiempo al activismo indígena, por los pueblos que aun existe, no nos han desaparecido todavía y ahí subsistimos en medio de un mundo dominado ya por ideas ajenas a la forma de ser de nuestra gente. Apoyo la socialización de las ideas porque es una forma de saber y compartir otras maneras de hacer las cosas. Comparto las ideas del compañero Rodrigo. Leonfd1992 (talk) 23:43, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Support, Wikimedia Norge has worked with Barrioflores / Rising Voices on different indigenous language projects over the past year, like conference presentations, blog posts and in different advisory groups related to our work on content on Wikimedia projects about the Sami people, an indigenous people living in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia. We will continue this work in 2019 as part of the Year of Indigenous Languages 2019. For Wikimedia Norge, it's truly valuable to work with partner organizations with knowledge on how to support endangered and indigenous languages from both outside the Wikimedia movement and from outside Europe and it's also appreciated by our Sami partner organizations. This gives us other perspectives on our work and have influenced how we are working on our Sami project. Based on this we support this application as an attempt to support Wikimedia projects in indigenous languages. Astrid Carlsen (WMNO) (talk) 11:05, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Support, Zapoteco diiste (Rodrigo); aún recuerdo muy bien cuando te expliqué detalladamente, en una vídeo-conferencia, toda la problemática a la que iban a enfrentar los pueblos indígenas al entrar en contacto con Wikipedia, ya sabías de los riesgos que conlleva una situación de no inclusión hacia grupos limitados en cuanto a tecnología como los pueblos indígenas. Tú me hiciste muchas preguntas que posteriormente pude leer en tus minutas y no me diste crédito alguno, en algunos puntos me pareció un plagio de mis ideas, ya que desconocías la realidad de wikipedia respecto a las lenguas indígenas y yo te lo expliqué a detalle; pero no me molesta que no dieras crédito alguno porque es una noble causa al estarle dando continuidad al proyecto de Kaqchinkel con un propósito bastante interesante; todo mundo sabe que yo inicié este proyecto con el usuario:Patzun y el usuario:Protoplastkid, el primero era un español que se casó con una mujer de Chimaltenalgo, una noble persona que estaba empeñada en que el kaqchinquel tuviera una wikipedia propia y el segundo personaje es mi amigo Iván, quien fungía como presidente de Wimimedia México.
Pues el usuario:Tepoxteco también es amigo mio y conjuntamente con él tratabamos de que Huiquipedia fuera editado por hablantes maternos de las distintas variantes del náhuatl o también llamadas lenguas nahuas, él fue a un foro de Globalvoice a Oaxaca y después me comentó todo lo que allí pasó y como se llevó acabo ese foro, pero al final no fue posible hacer dicha propuesta y los hablantes nativos de las lenguas nahuas se decepcionaron de Huiquipedia y pasamos la voz a sus comunidades, de que Huiquipedia no era una plataforma para la ideología y la forma de pensar de los pueblos originarios ya que él es parte de INALI y de la Academía Mexicana de lenguas Indígenas que patrocina la UNAM. En la UNAM y en Wikimanía 2015 se dio un foro sobre Wikipedia y las lenguas indígenas; allí se acordó que Wikipedia no es una plataforma que sirva a los hablantes nativos porque no comparten la misma cosmovisión del mundo occidental y que los hablantes nativos consultan Wikipedia en español y nunca en su lengua materna. Actualmente Huiquipedia es un proyecto fracasado, no tiene utilidad alguna para las comunidades nahuas del país y los artículos allí escritos no los entienden los hablantes nativos, lo que la convierte en una ficción.
Cuando las cosas no empiezan bien desde un principio, todo entra al teléfono descompuesto y se distorsiona el mensaje aunque este haya sido de buenas intensiones; a pesar de ello, yo apoyo tu propuesta de continuar con completar esa brecha digital existente entre los pueblos indígenas y el mundo ciber-nauta; me gustaría que las lenguas indígenas tuvieran más espacios, pero he viajado por Europa, Asia, toda América y todo México; y lamentablemente a nadie le interesa los pueblos indígenas y su problemática, lo he escuchado en distintos idiomas y eso me entristece, prevalece el racismo hacia los pueblos indígenas y difícilmente se logra convencer a los demás de la existencia de otras formas de pensar y mirar el mundo, a mí no me cae de extraño porque los sefardíes estamos acostumbrados al rechazo y la exclusión; sin embargo, hemos sabido adaptarnos al mundo y su lógica, no andamos lloriqueando ni quejándonos de discriminación, se han abierto otras brechas en otras instituciones, por ello no hay frustración ni necedad de querer tener una wikipedia exclusiva para judeoespañoles; ya que nosotros los descendientes de los sefardíes, actualmente hablamos distintos idiomas como español, hebreo, turco, kurdo, inglés, italiano, portugués, neerlandés, griego, árabe, búlgaro, rumano, croata, serbio, tagalo o ruso; pues solo una pequeña comunidad de adultos mayores habla djudeo-espanyol o ladino y la mayoría se concentra en Turquía e Israel, actualmente el ladino es una lengua casi muerta y nada tiene que ver nuestro castellano antiguo que aún habla mi abuela y mi madre, con el djudeo-espanyol de los turcos o el haquetía de los marroquíes; pero de lo que si estamos seguros en mi familia es sobre fuertes semejanzas en nuestra habla familiar y de nuestro origen judío, que a pesar de que somos anusim, mi vínculo con la comunidad azkenazí y mizrahí de México es excelente y gracias a ellos aprendí el ladino turco. Te deseo siempre lo mejor y todo mi apoyo para la revitalización de las lenguas indígenas de nuestro México. Marrovi (talk) 23:43, 25 February 2019 (UTC)