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Grants talk:Project/Rapid/Sherlock808/Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom Module translation and Campaign

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Latest comment: 3 years ago by Ralffralff in topic Additional comment

Comments from DSaroyan (WMF)[edit]

Hi Sherlock808, thanks for submitting this Rapid Grant request. We are excited about your plans to translate the Reading Wikipedia modules into Central Bikol and share them with educational institutions and libraries. I have some questions about your grant application that I’d like you to respond to:

  • To confirm, is this grant requested on behalf of any Wikimedia affiliate?
  • Could you please provide the usernames or names of all five editors involved in the project?

Budget and expenses:

  • Graphic designer - I need more information about this expense item. Are you planning to hire someone to do the pagination and adjust the brochure for Central Bikol?
  • Translation of project materials - My understanding is that you plan to translate content by the help of volunteers and then compensate someone for proofreading and editing. Is this correct?
  • Temporary working space - for how long do you plan to rent a working space (months, days, or hours)? What is the monthly/daily cost of this working space?
  • Rental equipment for promotion campaign, Materials for reproduction of translated modules - wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to use a digital printing service to print these brochures? I think that it may also increase the quality of printed materials, and you won’t need to rent a printer to make the copies.
  • Data Connection - this cost also seems high to me, so I need to understand what type of data will you purchase, how long and for how many people? Additionally, doesn’t the proposed working space have Internet access?

I’m sorry if any of my questions seem inappropriate. I’m not familiar with the costs in the Philippines and would like to understand more with your help. Looking forward to your response. Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 12:56, 19 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Answers for the Comments[edit]

Hello DSaroyan (WMF), no worries for the questions. I understood that it is necessary on your part to require me some clarifications for the items I have listed. Also, it is helpful for me in order to further develop this project as executable and practical.

  • This is an individual grant same as my previous grant. Although I have some Wikimedian friends who help me, they are also un-affiliated.
  • Daramlagon, Elvilubi, Kunokuno, Markden24, and most importantly one of the regional coordinator of the Reading Wikipedia in the Philippines, Brazal.dang will help me in this project.
  • For graphic designer, yes we are planning to hire someone for the pagination and adjustments of brochures. Although some of us have know-how on lay-outing, we are not that expert in using Adobe In-design which I think is best for doing the whole brochure. Here is the average base salary for a graphic designer in Philippines: Average Graphic Designer Salary in Philippines.
  • For translation, yes we will do the initial translations since we are all native speakers of Bikol Central. But the final output should still be according to the Mother Tongue- Based Multilingual Education (MTB-MLE) guide, so that it will be suited for the current curriculum and in line with the available learning materials locally. I also think that since we will divide tasks in translating, there might be inconsistency in syntax, spelling, and grammar usage. I opted to compensate at least one translator who is an expert in the Central Bikol language, proofread the whole manuscript, secure the consistensy, before we actually print it. Here is the average payment for a translator in the Philippines:Average Translator Hourly Pay in Philippines.
  • For temporary working space, I have used the start date and end date as my timeline. So, it will be a total of three months, and I have provided an estimate of P6,000.00/month which is the minimum rental price here in our city for a space with a floor area of approximately 50 square meter with electric connection and water supply. It is far more economical than we occupy a restaurant for our set-up which might cost P2,000.00 for every meeting.
  • Yes, I agree that the rental of equipment may seem impractical but one thing I have considered was the length of the waiting time before we receive the final printed copy from a printing press. There are only a couple of printing press here in our area and mostly of them accommodate only a number of customers in a certain time. This would mean that we may exceed the end date since we don't have the control over time. But I am willing to do this adjustment since actually, if we are after the quality, we should let the printing press do this part. I just need to extend the end date to provide time allowance. I think an extension of one month is possible. If this would be the case, I may just realign the expense for the equipment rental to Offline (hard-copy) publishing, which was originally intended only for library copies.
  • Unfortunately, the data connection is not included in rental space here. If it does offer, the connection is below normal since there are a couple of room boarders who are connected on the same wifi router and internet charges for rental spaces are quite over-priced. Yes, I can lessen this one since we will be using the data connection after we have distributed the modules and check the impact based on siteviews. Sorry, I was not able to review this part beforehand. This will be on the last part of the project where we will monitor the statistics and provide answers for the queries we received from new users. I can lessen it to P5,000.00 and divide it among the group or provide two routers which can be maximized by us and other interested volunteers that may help along the way.

I hope I was able to provide a clearer picture of the whole project. Thanks. Sherlock808 (talk) 14:22, 19 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Sherlock808: thank you so much for your comprehensive response. Please feel free to extend the grant end date and adjust the budget as you described. Let me know once you make these changes. I'll let you know if I have any other questions. Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 14:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Hello DSaroyan (WMF), I have already made the adjustments. The rental of printer was removed and I added the expenses for publishing on printing press. The materials for binding the printed modules was removed as well. Instead, I have added expense for tarpaulin, since I have mentioned installing it on schools but I was not able to list it on my items. T-shirts will served as uniforms during the distribution. The end date was extended for one month. I think it's an ample time for the printing press. Thank you. Sherlock808 (talk) 16:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Additional comment[edit]

Hi Sherlock808, thank you for making the adjustments. One additional question I have is about the community feedback. I can see that some community members have already translated and created some of the brochures. Do you plan to collaborate with them in terms of this project? Additionally, how will you make sure to not repeat what has already been done? For instance, the first module is already ready, but in your proposal you plan to retranslate and recreate it. Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 08:26, 24 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello DSaroyan (WMF), yes I have seen the uploaded file but it was only translated until page 7 of the booklet and I have reviewed the modules beforehand and it includes 60+ pages to be translated, same with module 2 and 3. There are still a lot to translate. As you can see in this file, this was only translated until page 7 and the remaining page is still in Tagalog. This module however has 66 pages. I also do not have problem with collaboration, however I have a friendly space issue with the community member who have initially done the translation, so as the people who will assist me on doing this. I can elaborate this further on email for security purposes. Thank you very much. Sherlock808 (talk) 09:03, 24 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Hi Sherlock808, thank you for your response. Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 09:13, 24 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Community comment[edit]

Hello Davit and Sherlock. I translated the file mentioned in the discussion. There is one page untranslated because it is an image and cannot be translated unlike the other pages. I started to translate it last year during the pre-implementation stage of Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom as an initiative to help the coordinators and being part of the affiliate who collaborates with the Education Team which at that time was still developing the modules. When the pilot project was done, I asked the Team if we could get an access to the modules used in the pilot program so the Community could replicate the program. All modules used have been uploaded on Commons however they are not in the format which are translatable so I immediately requested the Education Team once again and we are still waiting for their response. Regarding Sherlock's issue, who I do not personally know, he/she can elaborate his/her issue so I can address it. Thanks. -Filipinayzd (talk) 12:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi Davit, I am the president of PhilWiki Community and I would like to let you know that based on our Annual Plan 2021 finalized and formally adopted on December 18, 2020 by 3 board members, 4 regular members and 3 community members in attendance, Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom, and Reading Wikipedia at Home are among the programs under Education Program to be implemented by the user group. Specifically, we aim to introduce Wikipedia as a learning tool and platform in 3 schools, educational institutions, or academic communities. As our user group can only implement initiative activities and programs as of the moment, we have limited capacity and with the help volunteers and support from fellow Wikipedians, we still carry on. Regards. -Ralffralff (talk) 13:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

We have received the files from the Education Team and shared them to the Community. Although the Philippines is a multicultural and multilingual archipelagic state, majority of Filipinos specially teachers are proficient in the English language. However as part of the user group's advocacy to raise awareness on the importance of mother tongue in active learning and to deploy Wikipedia as a resource and medium for dissemination of open knowledge, we deem its importance but I think, the translation project must be cost-effective and practical unless done the Wiki-way, meaning through collaboration of volunteers. The translation initiatives will serve as a venue for teachers, along the volunteer translators, to get acquainted with Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom project and local Wikipedia projects, in the process. Among the reasons why the Community collaborated with the Education Team in the pilot project of Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom is to implement the same in different communities to continue impacting the education sector with Wikipedia and by teacher Wikipedians. Unfortunately, the user group only served as a thought partner in the pilot project as stated in the agreement, even though we wanted to be hands on in its implementation. It also provided two members the opportunity to gain experience and skills as Coordinator hoping it would benefit the Community once we implement the project after the pilot project. -Filipinayzd (talk) 02:10, 27 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Clarifications on Reading Wikipedia Project in the Philippines[edit]

Hello DSaroyan (WMF) and Sherlock808 and to all other Wikimedians following these thread. I am writing to express my support to this project and also to provide some clarifications on matters concerning the Reading Wikipedia Project in the Philippines. However, I will do so in my capacity as a volunteer because of the fact that I am under a non-disclosure agreement during my time as one of the local coordinators for the Philippines. Other confidential matters may be discussed via email and be subject for verification of the Wikimedia Education Team.

Support for the Project

Apologies if I am only able to express my support now. It is intentional that I am refraining to involve myself online because there has been several instances that I feel uncomfortable and unsafe contributing to our local language Wikiprojects. Details about this will be sent via email to appropriate channels. Rest assured I will share what I know and what I can about this project if this grant will be approved, however, if possible I would prefer helping via offline involvement.

Translated Files

I think there has been some confusion on the files that Sherlock and Filipinayzd are referring to. They're referring to two separate documents. Please refer to this link for all the documents about the RW Project. The former is referring to the actual RW Modules while the latter is referring to the RW Booklet, more of a digest. If the booklet was translated before July 2020, then the translated file was not the final and reviewed copy because the file was uploaded on Commons last July 2020. No other documents have been released and all drafts are under NDA and subject for deletion at the end of the project. Any other documents were only shared through emails for feedback and not yet intended for circulation.

Access to Modules

Everyone has access to the modules via Wikimedia Commons under a CC BY-SA 4.0 license. It is free to download, share, remix, and adapt it as long as you give proper attribution to the Wikimedia Foundation. It is true that the file is untranslatable. It is the reason maybe why Sherlock is considering the help of a graphic designer, as it will be additional burden for him to do the editing of the layout. Also, with my firsthand experience, the files from the Team may not be suitable for the Philippines because they used a much upgraded application that requires a technical know how of a graphic artist.

Comments on other feedback

I don't think it is appropriate to mention any affiliation in this discussion because this is an individual grant. As an outside observer, I think it has been done as another form of intimidation. Whatever may be the plans of the User Group is entirely separate from what the proponent of this project can and is planning to do. If the UG is planning to collaborate, I think, they should at least identify the form of commitment they can share to this project not elaborate their own plans in this discussion. If they do not support this cause, they should at least cite some reasons why. Reading Wikipedia Project can be done by any willing volunteer, with or without support on resources, with or without an affiliation as long as there is a community to serve. Whatever may be the purpose of the President of that UG, this comment is entirely uncalled for.

Support from the UG

As to the involvement of the UG to the implementation of this project in the Philippines, it can be read in the final report of the RW Project. Other matters concerning the sincerity to support the RW project in the Philippines of the affiliate involved in this discussion will be sent via email.

Hi Davit, I wonder which part of what I said is intimidation? I am only sharing here that our user group, which she was once a part of, will be conducting Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom project as you can see in our Annual Plan 2021. In fact, I learned that she was one of the Coordinators selected through a call facilitated by the user group as part of its role as a partner of the Education Team. So I wonder why Sherlock is requesting for this project and not her.

Part of the reasons why the user group cannot fully conduct its activities is due to the fact that the user group receives complaints as communicated by AffCom and this, which the usergroup cannot directly answer as there are no details in the supposed complaints. Somebody who is saying that he or she will just communicate privately instead of openly discussing the concerns, I think, IS a form of intimidation. Unfortunately discussions of issues take a while, and while the discussions are on the process, the usergroup's capacity is in effect being limited, and hopefully all of these are not purposely done as it is counter-productive and totally not fair.


Ralffralff (talk) 15:52, 27 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello DSaroyan (WMF)! I hope you are well. Although the comment of Ralffralff is not intended for me, I think there are some matters that only I alone can provide some insights.

To Ralffralff: I don't see the need to explain myself to anyone especially to your UG, but as a courtesy for a fellow Wikimedian, I will give you some answers. For me, expressing your position and affiliation on people beyond your jurisdiction is a form of intimidation. This is not the right place for concerns about your UG as it is a discussion page for a grant request. Until now, your UG has not stated whether you support this project or not. Discussion about your plans and other matters concerning your UG should be discussed somewhere else considering the fact that Sherlock808 is not open for collaboration with your group. Whatever you plans are, does not directly affects this project. Unless you already started and had identified communities that the proponent of this project should know about to avoid duplication of materials. Also, I don't see anything wrong that might affect your UG directly if this project is to be realized.

Yes, I am previously part of your UG. I don't see the purpose of mentioning this other than adding up a drama to your comment. Your UG removed me in the group without due process and proper resolution, and if there's any I was not informed as to the reason why. I don't remember resigning myself as a member. With that, I let myself moved on. What I don't understand is the need for your group to build association with me or any other Wikimedians I tried to work with. We may continue discussing this on the appropriate channel.

As to the reason why it is Sherlock808 who is requesting this project not me is actually Sherlock808's concern and right as a Wikimedian. He sees this as a project he can work on, asking support from the Foundation is also he's given right as a volunteer. As the former Local Coordinator, I no longer want anything that has to do with this project anymore, because of the unhealthy environment it creates with your UG. From the moment I signed my contract until now, it seems that your UG has a problem with me being the one of the chosen Local Coordinator, for the reasons I don't know about.

I think your restrictions to conduct activities because of formal complaints is no longer a concern to be discussed here. AND the issue you are referring to might not be exactly related to the issues you have with AffCom. As far as I am concerned, this issue has ended when I removed my edit counts on the landing page of the WikiGap 2021 Campaign. The international organizer of this event has repeatedly contacted me to share some information about this but I refuse to give any statements. Now, I might take that opportunity to share because it seems that your UG has not yet stop throwing allegations towards me. I can guarantee you that I did not file any formal complaints about your UG, at least not directly to AffCom. Nor did any of the the local Wikimedians I work with. At least that's what I know. My talk page is open for your questions and feel free to send your reply about this on my discussion page.

I am discussing the issue openly, I am just not doing it publicly. I am not a fan of trial by publicity, in which I guess you would prefer. As volunteers we are answerable directly to the Movement, that's the reason why I prefer to settle this matter in the right channel. If information was not shared to you by the Foundation, maybe because you don't need to know it in your capacity as a volunteer. However, I am confident that if my emails involve you or your UG, the right people will be surely in contact with you. Then and there, you will be given opportunity to answer.

Again, whatever it is that is limiting your group to perform your duties as a UG, it is not under my control, nor am I aware of the cause of it. Know also that the nature of this environment is purely volunteer works. I don't see any limiting factors not to make contributions as an individual.

The Education Team has plans to license local coordinators to reach more communities. You are free to join them and anyone from your Team. Just know also that there will be a lot of project proposals like this, probably within our country. I think as a head of a UG you should learn not to take things personally. There will be more local coordinators, more people to do this kind of job. If you think that licensing these local coordinators would again limit your role as a UG, I think you need to raise your concern to the right people.

Additional note: During the pre-program survey of the Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom, Sherlock808 was able to gather more or less 70 teachers to respond within a day. While the tasks was given to your UG it only returned 12 responses within a period of more than a week. Also, this user consistently attends meetings of the Education Team that discussed the Reading Wikipedia Project in general. . I hope this might give you an idea how did he learn about this project.