Grants talk:Simple/Applications/Wikimedia Suomi/2018

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Questions from Liang[edit]

Hello, I know you have not fully prepared for the application, but I am reveiwing some of the documents related to your application, I am very intrigued by the education innovative work. Winifred mentioned that you are working with elementary school and also GLAM institutions. I am wondering can you provide the relevant links for me to review? Thanks! --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 16:06, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Secondly, I am really interested in the Wikidata localization initiative. I heard that @Kimmo: is the expert on this. Is it possible to give me more aspect towards this idea? Thank you. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 17:50, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I will try to answer for the questions about Wikidata and @Teromakotero: will answer to education stuff. --Zache (talk) 06:05, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Hi, here you have a link to Education project for basic education (grades 1 to 9). There is a project going on where we (teachers mainly) are writing the text books for all subjects. Project is only one year old. Perusopetuksen osasto --Teromakotero (talk) 17:04, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Here you have an example of History Wikibooks:fi:S4_Suurten_sotien_aika --Teromakotero (talk) 17:07, 9 November 2017 (UTC)


Is this YLE/YSA program the same work of a program I heard from WMF staff “wikidata localization initiative”?[edit]

No. YSA/YSO program is to match YSO/YSA items to wikidata items and save the result to wikidata property P2347 (identifier for a concept in the General Finnish Upper Ontology YSO) and to the new property for YSA. (example item for P2347)

The General Finnish Ontology YSO is a trilingual ontology (and/or advanced thesaurus) consisting mainly of general concepts (about 29,000 currently). General Finnish keywords YSA is like that but for keywords. The National Library of Finland is already doing some mapping YSO to Wikidata.

This is related to Yle so that Yle is using Wikidata for keywording and in the keywording system they have data which is linked to YSO/YSA and Wikidata. This data can be used for matching. Yle's dataset is not clean so it needs to be cleaned before things can be stored to wikidata which is scope of YSA/YSO project --Zache (talk) 06:05, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Links between YSA/YSO and Wikidata can be used for translating values between systems.

In example this image from Finna have four keywords defined in YSA: Turun tuomiokirkko, kaupungit, Aurajoki and kirkot

               <conceptID type="term" source="Yleinen suomalainen asiasanasto">Turun tuomiokirkko</conceptID>
               <term label="asiasana">Turun tuomiokirkko</term>
               <conceptID type="term" source="Yleinen suomalainen asiasanasto">kaupungit</conceptID>
               <term label="asiasana">kaupungit</term>
               <conceptID type="term" source="Yleinen suomalainen asiasanasto">Aurajoki</conceptID>
               <term label="asiasana">Aurajoki</term>
               <conceptID type="term" source="Yleinen suomalainen asiasanasto">kirkot</conceptID>
               <term label="asiasana">kirkot</term>

... They will be translated as wikidata items: Turku Cathedral (Q1187606), city (Q515), Aura River (Q663607) and church building (Q16970). If we are saving the image to commons we can use those items to get default commons categories: Turku Cathedral, cities, Aura River and Churches.

This can be done to other direction too. Eg we can reverse lookup YSA/YSO keywords for images in Wikimedia Commons using commons categories and wikidata items. Currently, we are doing this for some of our Wiki loves monuments photos which National board of antiquities of Finland will archive. --Zache (talk) 06:56, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata localization initiative: Is it possible to give me more aspect towards this idea?[edit]

Liang: You may need to be more specific with this question.

The idea behind the tech program is to gain acceptance from the Finnish Wikipedia community for showing data from Wikidata in article. The second reason to this is to support our EDU project so that teachers will be able to do things what they need, but we also want to show what can be done so that the wiki platform itself is interesting for teaching. These are overlapping targets and both will need a working wikidata framework, good help pages, the ability to do graphs, show things on maps etc. However, they differ as user groups. Wikipedia community is larger and more conservative than our target teachers who are more likely early adopters. So we can test ideas in the EDU first then move them to Wikipedia.

As purely technical perspective we imported in autumn 2016 module:wikidata and related modules from French Wikipedia to Finnish Wikipedia. Currently this French Wikidata module is used in some infoboxes (in example: template:videopeli, template:järvi_WD) . There are things which still need work like the general look and feel, dates, rendering the references but in general, it works well enough in Wikipedia and more or less in sister projects too.

However we want to move to w:fr:module:infobox from French Wikipedia which allows us to define infoboxes directly from Lua (example: wikibooks:Wikidata/tietolaatikot and videogames infobox). This is currently something that works in French Wikipedia but it still needs work in the Finnish sites. For example, there are things that don't work currently in sister projects and other things that are done differently in French Wikipedia than in Finnish Wikipedia like eg. linking dates, how to tell that information is from the Wikidata etc, CSS styles, how things are rendered and dozens of other small things. The big thing with this is also that modules are constantly improved in French Wikipedia so we need to pull changes and if possible push our changes back to French Wikipedia.

Because the target is not just to create technical ability to use Wikidata in Finnish Wikimedia community but to get Wikidata actually used we need solid use cases that we can use to show that this is an improvement and that cannot be shot down with arguments like how to track vandalism?, how we can know that the information is correct?. Those arguments are valid concerns and they need to be addressed or the community just says that we don't want the data from wikidata in infoboxes on in graphs. Our take for this is to use clearly defined use case (Lake data) which we can test automatically. This is also better than tracking the changes manually. --Zache (talk) 20:59, 8 November 2017 (UTC)


I'm happy to hear that your flagship education project is about Wikibooks, it makes sense. Thanks for sharing an example above. --Nemo 13:53, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Google Docs[edit]

Please archive the job description you linked from the grant as text, PDF or ODT on a Wikimedia wiki. Google Docs vanish any time. --Nemo 13:53, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

I moved it to --Zache (talk) 01:59, 15 November 2017 (UTC)


Wikimedia Suomi is finally eligible to apply for a 12-month grant starting 1 January 2018, for a grant up to 80,000 EUR + 10% contingency fee, and with up to 1.0 FTE staff. We are disappointed this took so long, but glad it is done! Note this is pending resolution of any chapter reporting requirements marked past due on this page, because we still can't distribute any funding until those are resolved. Winifred Olliff (WMF Program Officer) talk 11:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

A Question from Ido[edit]

Hello, Wikimedia Suomi friends! I'm glad to hear about your progress. I've read (and liked) the proposal, and have but one question regarding the technical project: Is it time-bound? Do you expect it to "end" in or shortly after next year's funding runs out? I'm asking because it seems to me that much of this project is laying the groundwork so that people might work with Wikidata in WMFI. If that is the case, I would expect the results to be guides and infrastructure so that no employee is needed for maintenance from 2019+. Am I correct in my understanding? Do you have other plans?

Alleycat80 (talk) 23:47, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

@Alleycat80: We do not expect that it will end if the funding will run out because key persons are long time Wikipedists and most likely they are doing the same kind of stuff after next year's funding runs out. It is also a part of the tech plan to document the infrastructure and other technical things to get more people involved because the long-term target is not just to copy modules and templates but to improve skills of persons in Finnish Wikimedia Community.
However to get the ongoing maintenance to be run by community members (of Finnish Wikipedia) except those currently already involved with WMFI would require that the upstream modules in French Wikipedia to be changed so that they could be synced to other wikis with minimal changes. Currently, only some of the modules are designed this way. We are planning to upstream changes to French Wikipedia to make this easier but all major changes are out of the scope of the tech project described in this SAPG.
Personally, I hope that after Finnish Wikipedia's example to use French Wikipedia's Wikidata and Infobox modules those modules would be used in other wikis too. As a result, there would be a reason to change the upstream modules in French Wikipedia so that they could be easily localized to other wikis. This would solve the maintenance issues in Finnish Wikimedia sites too. --Zache (talk) 06:11, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Got it, thanks Zache!

Simple Annual Plan Grant Committee Recommendation[edit]

Committee recommendations
Funding recommendations:

We recommend full funding for Wikimedia Suomi, or 80,736 EUR + 10% contingency fee, or 88,900 Euro.

We are providing the following rationale:

  1. We appreciate Wikimedia Suomi’s responsiveness to the needs of their communities, and their ongoing community support focus. We also see that Wikimedia Suomi is pursuing programs like education and GLAM in a thoughtful way that invests in local opportunities.
  2. We appreciate the good work that Wikimedia Suomi has done to strengthen their board, and also to implement their staffing structure. We think this will lead to good results in years to come.
  3. We are concerned by Wikimedia Suomi’s lack of ability to report consistently and on time on past grants, and by relevant targets and SMART objectives set for each of its program activities. This must be improved if Wikimedia Suomi seeks funding again in the future.
  4. At the same time, we believe that increased staff capacity will lead to improvements in these areas in the upcoming year, and that the addition of a new technical position will help Wikimedia Suomi achieve more programmatic results.
Comments on the next year's plan:

Wikimedia Suomi is applying for their third Annual Plan Grant, having completed one 12-month grant and one transitional 8-month grant. They are applying for a significant increase to grow their staff from 0.5 FTE to 1.0 FTE, in order to implement their new technical initiative.

The plan includes partnerships, education, content, outreach, and technical development. Technical development is a new area for Wikimedia Suomi, and the inclusion of this new program is driven by community needs. Education work is unique, with an emphasis on elementary school students and partnering with museums to release educational content. The programs in this plan have more definition than programs from previous years, and also include more context to explain the importance of each work area.

This year’s plan is a significant improvement over previous plans. What is still lacking is relevant targets and metrics included for each program objective.

Comments on the current year's focus and achievements:
  • Wikimedia Suomi is doing an effective job of assessing relevant opportunities in their context and tailoring their programs appropriately. This shows in their innovative education work and their GLAM work, which is advanced for an organization of their limited size. For example, Wikimedia Suomi is achieving partnerships at the national level, and also doing unique work like their close collaboration with the Games Museum in Tampere from the museum’s founding and their partnership with the national broadcasting organization.
  • In 2017, our main emphasis was on board development and engagement. We saw amazing progress on this throughout 2017, and this was emphasized in the 2017 site visit, during which Wikimedia Foundation-Annual Plan Grants staff had an opportunity to meet with new board members and learn more about the skills and experience they were bringing to the board. Wikimedia Suomi now has an engaged board with relevant skills in areas that are important to Wikimedia Suomi’s program and organizational development. Calls are regularly attended by several board members in addition to staff, and they speak passionately about their work.
  • Later in 2017, Wikimedia Suomi hired a part-time program staff person, and this was also an important milestone. This is the first time they have hired staff since winding down their organization following an unsuccessful attempt to build up staff through Project Grants. The hiring process appears to have gone well, and the staff person has been a great help in moving the current grant application forward.
  • Wikimedia Suomi needs more guidance in expressing their plans or the context behind their program work: they are much better at planning and doing programs than they are at expressing their plans. In 2017, helping Wikimedia Suomi improve at presenting their programs and achievements was an emphasis. Progress was made in this area, but we still have a lot to do.
Other considerations:
  • The reason for the large increase in this year’s budget is the addition of a part-time staff person who will be focused on the technical program.
  • Wikimedia Suomi is still struggling to understand reporting deadlines and requirements and submit their reports on time. Wikimedia Suomi should take more responsibility in this area now that they are growing their budget, but Wikimedia Foundation-Annual Plan Grants staff are also committed to increasing our support in this area during the course of 2018.
  • Confirming final eligibility for this application was delayed significantly, due to outstanding reporting requirements. Now that Wikimedia Suomi has a part-time program coordinator, we are hopeful that they can address this past reporting deficit.
Comments on the next year's focus:
  • Improving reporting practices will be a top priority in 2018.
  • Despite great potential, Wikimedia Suomi is still challenged to put together a coherent program plan with relevant and specific targets. This will still need to be emphasized in 2018, and leading up to the 2019 application.
  • With this significant budget increase, it will be necessary to assess gaps in finance and governance and work with the board to implement improvements in 2018 and 2019.
  • Wikimedia Suomi is eager to learn from and collaborate through work with other chapters in their region and language group. They are fostering closer working relationships with both Wikimedia Sverige and Wikimedia Eesti, and borrowing program ideas from both groups. Wikimedia Suomi would like to continue to emphasize this in 2018.
  • Wikimedia Suomi has just brought on a program coordinator and plans to expand their staff to 1.0 FTE, including a second person. They will need to do work in 2018 to find ways for the board and staff to work effectively together, and to begin to formalize staff roles as they continue learning.

On behalf of the Simple Annual Plan Grants Committee. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 17:35, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Decision from WMF
Funding decision:

Many thanks to the Simple Annual Plan Grants Committee for these thoughtful recommendations, and thank you also to the Wikimedia Suomi team for your willingness to engage during the application process. We would like to reiterate the committee's appreciation for the work you have done to revitalize your board. We are impressed with the level of engagement we have seen even during the grant application process. We are also hopeful that the added capacity that your program staff person is bringing to your organization can help your organization achieve your big dreams for 2018, and that you will also be successful in bringing your new technical staff person on board.

This was not a simple decision for the committee. As you can read above, they were very appreciative of your past accomplishments and the potential of your future plans, but also expressed some serious concerns about your reporting record and your goal-setting. We share this appreciation, and these concerns. This means that improving goal-setting and reporting practices will need to be a major emphasis in 2018, along with supporting Wikimedia Suomi to stabilize your new staffing structure. Our first opportunity will be our work on the final report for you 2017 grant, which will be due at the end of January!

Your grant is approved in the recommended amount of 88,900 Euro, or 80,736 Euro to be spent according to the annual budget submitted with this application, and a 10% contingency fee that is only to be used for unforeseen expenses with the approval of WMF. The grant term will begin on 1 January 2018, and will end on 31 December 2018. A midpoint report covering the first 6 months of the grant term should be submitted by 15 July 2018, and a final report covering the entire 12 months should be submitted by 30 January 2019.

Congratulations, and we are looking forward to an exciting year together in 2018!

Best, Winifred Olliff (WMF Program Officer) talk 01:02, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

WMFI would like to thank everyone involved for the review of our application! We will try to do our best next year so that our duties regarding reporting will be fulfilled in a timely manner and we have already started to implement new project management procedures to guarantee that. --Zache (talk) 18:58, 7 December 2017 (UTC)