Language committee/Archives/2008-12

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November 2008 Language committee (Archives for December 2008) January 2009
For a summary of discussions, see the archives index.

Spanned discussions[edit]

The following discussions span multiple months and are archived in the first applicable archive:

Wikinews Persian, Wikiquote Western Panjabi[edit]

The request for a Western Panjabi Wikiquote was verified as eligible; no decision was reached on the request for a Persian Wikinews.

  1. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    01 December 2008 09:03

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  2. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    01 December 2008 11:22

    Hello,

    I do object to approving the Wikinews Persian. There is very little activity in the test project (no edits at all in November!). You should get consensus *before* sending a proposal to the Board and telling the community you have done so.

    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Status/wn/fa

  3. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    01 December 2008 11:35

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  4. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    01 December 2008 12:29

    It was never approved by either the subcommittee or the Board. If you want to apply the policy, apply it. That policy requires an active test project (which this request does not have), and a subcommittee consensus (which you never sought).

  5. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    01 December 2008 12:43

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  6. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    01 December 2008 12:56

    Please link to that discussion. The last discussion I can find was about your refusal to grant eligibility to the project: < http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Archives/2008-08#Persian_Wikinews.2C_and_Gerard_acting_without_informing_subcommittee >.


  7. 10 December 2008 15:03

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

Wikipedia Pontic[edit]

The request for a Pontic Wikipedia was approved. See also 2007-10 and 2008-09 discussion.

  1. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    02 December 2008 10:27

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  2. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    02 December 2008 13:16

    I have no objection. It has met all the official requirements for a long time.

    < http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Status/wp/pnt >


  3. 10 December 2008 15:07

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  4. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    14 December 2008 13:13

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  5. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    18 December 2008 04:29

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  6. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    18 December 2008 05:07

    I still have no objection to its approval. The request meets all the requirements, as listed on its status page.

  7. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    18 December 2008 05:15

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  8. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    18 December 2008 05:40

    Am I supposed to vote, or qui tacit consentire?

  9. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    18 December 2008 05:44

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

Induct Evertype, Millosh[edit]

Michael Everson (Evertype) and Milos Rancic (Millosh) were inducted into the subcommittee. Both agreed to public archival.

Proposal[edit]

  1. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    10 December 2008 07:56

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  2. Jon Harald Søby
    10 December 2008 08:27

    Regardless of Everson's merits, I would appreciate it if you had conferred with the committee before asking him, just in case. That said, he seems like an excellent candidate.

    I too think Milos would bring "new blood", and his input would be appreciated.

  3. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    10 December 2008 08:34

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  4. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    10 December 2008 17:31
    Gerard Meijssen wrote:

    <this text is quoted from a user who has not agreed to public archival.>

    A few have; removing the inactive members was one of them. (Another was to end the constructed languages limbo, but you reverted after agreeing not to oppose.) I put the planned changes aside temporarily while I tied up work for the end of my academic year, but I'll be back on it soon.

    Gerard Meijssen wrote:

    <this text is quoted from a user who has not agreed to public archival.>

    I've read his article and some discussions he participated in. He has relevant expertise and experience, and seems logical and capable of compromise. He looks like a good candidate to me; no objections.

    Gerard Meijssen wrote:

    <this text is quoted from a user who has not agreed to public archival.>

    Millosh is a long-time steward with whom I've discussed before. No objections.

  5. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    10 December 2008 17:35

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

Evertype archival[edit]

  1. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    TO Michael Everson
    17 December 2008 07:08

    Hello Michael,

    You've been successfully nominated for membership in the Wikimedia language subcommittee. Are you interested in participating?

    Also, subcommittee discussion is regularly copied to a public archive for transparency, but you can opt out. If you do opt out, your messages will be replaced with the note "<this user has not agreed to public archival>". Do you agree to the public archival of your emails (including your response to this email)? Even if you agree to archival, you can mark any email or comment as private and the message will be replaced by an appropriate note to that effect. The archives can be edited at any time to remove a message you forgot to mark as private.

    For more information, see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee>.

  2. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    TO Pathoschild
    17 December 2008 07:34

    Yes, I am.

  3. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    TO Michael Everson
    17 December 2008 07:52

    Do you agree to public archival? (See my email quoted below for information.)

  4. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    TO Pathoschild
    17 December 2008 07:57

    Sure

Millosh archival[edit]

  1. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    TO Milos Rancic
    17 December 2008 07:00

    Hello Milos,

    You've been successfully nominated for membership in the language subcommittee. Are you interested in participating?

    Also, subcommittee discussion is regularly copied to a public archive for transparency, but you can opt out. If you do opt out, your messages will be replaced with the note "<this user has not agreed to public archival>". Do you agree to the public archival of your emails (including your response to this email)? Even if you agree to archival, you can mark any email or comment as private and the message will be replaced by an appropriate note to that effect. The archives can be edited at any time to remove a message you forgot to mark as private.

  2. Milos Rancic (Millosh)
    TO Pathoschild
    17 December 2008 07:42

    Yes, I am interested in participation.

    I think that transparency is very important, so by default my emails should be public. At the other side, I realize that there are some extraordinary situations when privacy is needed; but I don't think that such situations will be often.

Welcome[edit]

  1. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    17 December 2008 08:29

    Hi.

  2. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    17 December 2008 08:33

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  3. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    17 December 2008 08:37

    Welcome to the subcommittee. :)

  4. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    17 December 2008 08:38
    Gerard Meijssen wrote:

    <this text is quoted from a user who has not agreed to public archival.>

    I guess that's why I'm here. ;-)

  5. Jon Harald Søby
    17 December 2008 08:40

    Welcome, great to have you on the team.

  6. Milos Rancic (Millosh)
    17 December 2008 09:05

    I am here, too. May listadmin add my address <email address censored> for sending only? (<email address censored> is for sending and receiving.)

  7. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    17 December 2008 09:24

    Done.

  8. Sabine Cretella
    17 December 2008 11:04

    Ok, nice to see you over here :-) Welcome!

    I am just writing on my mail to the board and I hope that with my 100 interruptions here I will get it out still this evening.

  9. Sabine Cretella
    17 December 2008 12:14

    Stupid question: I still had <email address censored> in my addressbook, but it seems this address is not used anymore. Neither on the wikimediafoundation.org nor on meta I can find a new address - now just info@ is around there.

    Is there a collective address or is it again like before: we have to copy board membrers one by one?

  10. Milos Rancic (Millosh)
    17 December 2008 12:27

    Try with <email address censored> or <email address censored>

    Otherwise, I think that it is enough to send it to Michael Snow and say to him that the message is for the Board.

Wikipedia Old Georgian[edit]

The request for a Old Georgian Wikipedia was rejected.

  1. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    11 December 2008 05:58

    I propose the rejection of the Old Georgian Wikipedia as an extinct language, in accordance with policy and precedent. If there are no objections, I'll reject it in a couple of days.

    <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Old_Georgian>

Wiktionary Masry[edit]

No decision was taken on the request for a Masry Wiktionary.

  1. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    13 December 2008 20:20

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  2. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    14 December 2008 16:43

    The test project is active. However:

    The language seems to be a spoken dialect of Arabic with no official recognition, similar to Québécois French, with high mutual intelligibility. (But I guess we have little choice but to ignore this point now, since the Wikipedia was "approved".)

    I'm concerned by the stated goal to standardize the writing system using the Wiktionary. This goal is bound to result in conflict between users who prefer different systems. Furthermore, the "standardization" by a handful of wiki editors of a language spoken by 76 million people is bound to fail, and be original research to boot. (GerardM often complains about "reconstructed" languages; here's a prime candidate for his objection.)

    There are complaints on the request page that many of the words are entirely invented to distinguish it from Arabic, and don't exist in Egyptian Arabic. The proposer himself supports this claim, explaining why he invented a new word because he disagrees with the etymology of the real word.

  3. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    14 December 2008 16:54

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  4. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    20 December 2008 03:25

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  5. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    20 December 2008 03:52

    Sounds to me as though it ought *not* to be approved as it smacks of Original Research. But I don't know what you mean by "end this discussion". Is that ending it with or without action?

  6. Jon Harald Søby
    20 December 2008 04:32

    I think it is a bit early to approve another EA project this soon - I know, it meets the requirements and all that, but I think we should wait till the storm from the Wikipedia has settled properly, and see whether that project is successful before approving another one.

  7. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    20 December 2008 04:33

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  8. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    20 December 2008 04:35

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

Wikipedia Veps[edit]

The Veps Wikipedia was rejected.

  1. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    13 December 2008 19:52

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  2. Jon Harald Søby
    13 December 2008 20:18

    Seconded.

Wikiversity Finnish[edit]

A decision is pending on the second request for a Finnish Wikiversity.

  1. Gerard Meijssen (GerardM)
    23 December 2008 02:49

    <this user has not agreed to public archival.>

  2. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    24 December 2008 02:33

    I have no objections. The test project is quite active, localization is complete, and there are several existing Finnish wikis. See information and links on its status page: <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Status/wv/fi>.

  3. Michael Everson (Evertype)
    24 December 2008 04:44

    Nihil obstat.

  4. Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
    CC Sue Gardner (Executive Director), Cary Bass (Volunteer Coordinator)
    07 January 2009 15:05

    Hello,

    We (the language subcommittee) recommend the approval of the Finnish Wikiversity, which has an active community and meets all the requirements for approval. You can find more information on its status page at < http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Status/wv/fi >, which collects the relevant information and links. As previously agreed, this request will be approved if there are no objections within four days.