Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Xiang

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Xiang Wikipedia[edit]

main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Xiang
submitted verification final decision
Applications-system.svg This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code hsn (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Xiang Language name in English
Language name 湘语/Shiāen'ỳ Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q13220 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Xiang
  • native label (P1705) =
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = language / Chinese
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) =
  • writing system (P282) = Chinese characters
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 36,000,000, 36,600,000
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community SSKJRequiem (NP), Loadpage (N).
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Xiang language, Xiang Forum, Romanized Xiang sample text, Audio recordings in Xiang Zhuyin Fuhao script which may be suitable for xiang Unicode reference glyphs for bopomofoPDF (69.6 KB) & extended bopomofoPDF (61.6 KB) unicode for zhuyin fuhao [1] Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:... 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Continent/City "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

Proposal[edit]

  • Speakers: ~25 milliom.
  • Location(s) spoken: Hunan , China; A part of Sichuan, China; A Part of Chongqing, China.

Discussion[edit]

Arguments in favour[edit]

  1. Support: Native speakers of Xiang are willing to contribute to this project in the long-term, hence this project has the potential to flourish like the other Sinitic Wikipedia language editions such as Wu, Southern Min, Cantonese, Eastern Min, Cantonese, and Gan etc. Therefore the Xiang language ought to be given the opportunity and priviledge to have its own language edition of Wikipedia. --Jose77 23:03, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: Hsiang is a unique dialect of Chinese at the same degree of rank as Mandarin. Being one of native speakers of Hsiang, I advocate establishing the Wikipedia in Hsiang. SSKJRequiem 00:31, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support:important language with a lot of speakers.--Ffaarr 03:07, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: One of the first-level divisions in the Han language. Luuva 12:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support. Top-level Sinitic language. We already have versions for languages in the same level: might as well make a full set. I prefer the version uses an orthography in the Latin script. – Kaihsu 13:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support.There are quite large amount of native speakers. --Vipuser 13:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: If with many major Chinese "dialects" have their own wikipedias; and with significant number of native speakers, I don't see any reasons that the Xiang language should be declined to have their own wikipedia.--WikiCantona 00:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
  2. Support: one of the important languages of Chinese family.--Juansheng 13:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: A big language certainly deserves one Wikipedia. The test project has already attracted some users to edit. So it works out soon.--Symane 18:38, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: The language of our great leader Chairman Mao, of course we must support! Haha, just joked XD... --GnuDoyng 04:33, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: For save local language of whole world ,special for chinese,this project of Xiang is a begin.All Xiang People can done it better.Sorry my English is so poor.;)--Loadpage 14:29, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
  1. Support: I suggest making the wiki in the zhuyin fuhao script to avoid the simplified/traditional/latin choosing problem. we need a wiki with it.

I also suggest using suzhou numerals because we dont have a wiki with that either.68.160.243.133 22:05, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

  1. Support: Many articles have been created in the test project. It seems that there are enough people who are willing to contribute to this wikipedia. --Wisconsus 14:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  1. Support: From what I can see in the test, all is satisfactory. -- 李博杰  | Talk contribs 05:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
  1. Support--冰热海风 12:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
  1. Support: Xiang is absolutely an independent language from Chinese Official language --- Mandarin. Considering of the large amount of people who speak this language, why not we establish it? 1:27, 16 Jan 2011 (UTC+8)
  1. Support: As a native Xiang-speaker, I DON NOT AGREE with the against opinion:
      1. The CURRENT Xiang wiki Incubator is not just writing in Changsha dialect word or grammar. Instead, you should regard it as a mixture of many dialect-regions of Xiang. IT IS SUPERFICIAL that your wishful thinking about the Xiang wiki wrote in Changsha dialect.
      2. In addition, I saw some ridiculous opinion that using more and more phonetic-loan-character to show off their DIFFERENCE from other languages. That, I DONT THINK SO. In CURRENT Xiang wiki, most words or charactor obviously has it origins. However, there exists some phonetic-loan-character, but not huge in number, which likes in the Cantonese, they also use many of those to express their ideas.
    • -- Rhapsodier , 12:20 ,10 April 2011 (UTC +8)
  1. Support--User:Chûng-koet 湘語維基百科的成立,是湘語維基百科的一大進步,是湘語受到平等對待的一大突破,也是平等對待其他方言的一大希望.
  1. Support: An important language which spoken in southern china.--el caballero de los Leones (talk) 02:53, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
  2. Support-MacRusgail (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
  1. Support:suppot,Richard923888 (talk) 03:02, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
  1. Support +1. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:35, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

#Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support --Assoc (talk) 12:42, 22 January 2018 (UTC)Vandalism vote.

  1. Support, yes. --Artix Kreiger (Message Wall) 02:44, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Arguments against[edit]

  • I must vote an "against" temporarily even though my jiguan is located at a Chang-Yi dialects-speaking region of Xiang Chinese:
  1. The testing-project suffers from original-research issue, and recently the problem is worsening.
    • For instance, the romanization of Xiang Chinese is completely original-research. And I suspect some of the characters are original-research.
  2. The testing-project suffers from NPOV issues, for non-Chang-Yi Xiang speakers may not be able to read the text.
    • I agree that Changsha dialect should be based on the standard language of Xiang, but other dialects should also be incorporated to some extent. (e.g. the standard Mandarin is based on Beijing Mandarin but other dialects are also incorporated for the convenience of the overwhelming majority users.)
  3. The testing-project tends to use mass-amount rebus (phonetic loan) characters.
    • Certain amount of rebus characters should be allowed, but if one use rebus characters in order to make the text unfamiliar to everybody, it should not be allow. Currently, the rebus characters in the testing-project are acceptable, but there's a trend of using more and more rebus characters in the discussion, etc. So I worry if mass-amount rebus characters to be used in the future.
––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 13:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

General discussion[edit]

  • I was told that someone attempted to employ homophonous characters in Mandarin to approximate Xiang pronunciation, such as 福楠省 for Hunan, 箴国 for China, etc. It couldn't be more ridiculous. --GnuDoyng 05:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

i suggest making the wiki in the zhuyin fuhao script to avoid the simplified/traditional/latin choosing problem. we need a wiki with it.

i also suggest using suzhou numerals because we dont have a wiki with that either.68.160.243.133 22:02, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

here are a bunch of links for unicode of zhuyin fuhao, and suzhou numerals. we have no other wikis for these scripts, and they are uncontroversial and easy to learn.

Xiang language, Xiang Forum, Romanized Xiang sample text, Audio recordings in Xiang Zhuyin Fuhao script which may be suitable for xiang Unicode reference glyphs for bopomofoPDF (69.6 KB) & extended bopomofoPDF (61.6 KB) unicode for zhuyin fuhao [2]

heres a bunch a sstuff on suzhou numerals. please consider my suggestions.

Huama numerals.svg

or we could do counting rods instead of arabic or suzhou numerals

Counting rods in Unicode[edit]

Unicode 5.0 includes counting rod numerals in their own block in the Supplementary Multilingual Plane (SMP) from U+1D360 to U+1D37F. The code points for the horizontal digits 1-9 are U+1D360 to U+1D368 and those for the vertical digits 1-9 are U+1D369 to U+1D371. The former are called unit digits and the latter are called tens digits[1], which is opposite of the convention described above. Zero should be represented by U+3007 (〇, ideographic number zero) and the negative sign should be represented by U+20E5 (combining reverse solidus overlay)[2]. As these were recently added to the character set and since they are included in the SMP, font support may still be limited. Grey areas indicate non-assigned code points.

Template:Unicode chart Counting Rod Numerals

Symbols[edit]

In the Suzhou numeral system, special symbols are used for digits instead of the Chinese characters. The digits of the Suzhou numerals are defined between U+3021 and U+3029 in Unicode.

Unicode for Suzhou numerals
Number "Hangzhou" CJK Ideographs
Character Unicode Character Unicode
0   U+3007
1 U+3021 U+4E00
2 U+3022 U+4E8C
3 U+3023 U+4E09
4 U+3024  
5 U+3025
6 U+3026
7 U+3027
8 U+3028
9 U+3029

The numbers one, two, and three are all represented by bars. This can cause confusion when they appear next to each other. Standard Chinese ideographs are often used in this situation so that they can alternate without causing ambiguities. For example, "21" is written as "〢一" instead of "〢〡" which can be confused with "3" (). The first character of such sequence are usually represented by the Suzhou numeral, while the second character is represented by the Chinese ideograph.

Localisation update[edit]

Xiang can be written in either Romanized alphabet or in Han characters. Hence the the prefixes hsn-latn and hsn-hans could be used respectively for each writing system to enable the interface translations for both orthographies. --Jose77 04:33, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

You can request to have both scripts supported. :) The requirement is the same; you have to localise the most used messages. Thanks, GerardM 09:32, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

i suggest making the wiki in the zhuyin fuhao script to avoid the simplified/traditional/latin choosing problem. we need a wiki with it.

i also suggest using suzhou numerals because we dont have a wiki with that either.68.160.243.133 22:02, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

The intent of localisation is to help readers and editors use the software.. its intention is not to have something that may be nice to have but is divorced from the type of content that people will write... just a warning ... GerardM 09:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Currently 0.00% of the most used MediaWiki messages have been localised. Localisation of these messages is a requirement before your request is finally assessed. This is the recent localisation activity for your language. Thanks, GerardM 13:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

My Congratulation to 湘语 wikipedia[edit]

Warmly welcome to the family of Wikipedia !

I have added a brief intro page in Wuu for your language.

:Wuu:User:每日飞龙 10:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

  1. The Unicode Standard, Version 5.0 - Electronic edition (PDF), Unicode, Inc., 2006, p. 558 
  2. The Unicode Standard, Version 5.0 - Electronic edition (PDF), Unicode, Inc., 2006, pp. 499–500