Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Dari

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Dari
submitted verification final decision
Process-stop.svg This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

A committee member provided the following comment:

The language committee rejected the request for a Dari Persian Wikipedia, since it considers the language to be not sufficiently distinct from Standard Persian to merit an own Wikipedia project, per our third requisite for eligibility. We encourage any potential contributor to join the existing Persian Wikipedia. Regards, SPQRobin (talk) 18:31, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code prs (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Dari Persian Language name in English
Language name دری Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes/no Files should be uploaded to Commons, but if you want, you can enable local file uploading.
Notes: (1) files on Commons can be used on all wikis; (2) this setting can be changed afterwards; (3) uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info); (4) localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons
Optional settings
Project logo File:... 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Continent/City "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit maniphest task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

Proposal[edit]

We are working on translating key medical content into this language as part of this project here [1]. Would be nice to have a full project for them to go into. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose. I read Persian in an intermediate level and I can read almost any text in their incubator wiki. Unless they'll use colloquial forms and words there is virtually no difference. It's a dialect of Persian and not for nothing, same deal with most Arabic dialects
Okay thanks. So I can let the translators who are working on this language know that this content will be added directly to Persian and does not need to go to Dari. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
No one here is going to transfer anything into the Persian Wikipedia, likely because the articles already exist and if you want to add something you have to do it yourself.71.142.72.131 21:07, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
That is correct. For almost every colloquial Dari word there is a equally known Persian word, therefore it can go directly to the Persian Wikipedia.
So why does the Dari Wikipedia in the incubators not simply redirect to Persian? Is the above statement consensus of the communities? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:44, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Because anyone can propose a new language and all plausible languages or dialects or orthographies in some circumstances are considered on good faith. For example I could propose a Scottish English Wikipedia, it would not redirect to English because it is a proposal and if so is assumed to be for a new language, same languages different accent or vernacular do not get an independent wikipedia, so since the incubator is for NEW languages a mechanism to transfer anything was never conceived. If you want to add an article to Wikipedia Persian yourself, since you are the interested party you can create it over there by copying and pasting the content after entering the name for the topic and following the create article link. However if you are simply creating an article e.g. on Penicilin and this is vernacularly referred to as Xanda in Dari but Hamooshda in Persian proper you cannot create an article for Xanda. We do not allow more than one article per topic. What you can do is go to the Hamooshda article and add in the opening line that it is also known as Xanda in Dari speaking areas. Furthermore if there is no section or a very brief section on an aspect of Penicilin in a sub-section such as it's bioavailability, then you can cut and paste more information into that section or create it outright.71.142.72.131 21:07, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
The question here is rather political and not linguistic. Linguistically speaking they are almost the same in the literary register. Politically they prefer to be a separate language. --Orel Beilinson (talk) 12:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
So should the Dari incubator project be merged into Persian? Or should they be separate languages? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:07, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
The way incubated projects work is that they are either accepted or rejected. They are not usually merged. Unless there are multiple proposals for different dialects and no standard for very similar languages proposed. If it is found that there is content among those sometimes a meta wikipedia is created with a merger of all the articles but still only one article per topic is used and duplicate content is merged or the stronger better written one is kept with the rest deleted or left in the history. Since this is not the case, the case is that there is already a Persian Wikipedia that is highly developed and flourishing with all the articles on the most common and important subjects such as for each country, present, language, religion, important people, inventions, etc. already exist in the Persian version there is likely nothing to merge that would benefit the Persian encyclopedia. Notwithstanding some addition such as mentioning the Dari word for the topic in the article would be of benefit.71.142.72.131 21:07, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
I am a linguist, therefore I'll respond linguistically and not politically. Linguistically the difference (in the literary registers) isn't big enough to justify two different wikis. --Orel Beilinson (talk) 21:33, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
@DOCJAMES, Wikipedias are included based on the inclusion criteria, this "language proposal" simply does not meet those criteria. Dari is more of an accent, and an additional vernacular. However the vernacular's placeholders in Persian are also by all reports widely used in Dari speaking areas as well. This shows it is not independent of Persian. Only truly independent (new, genuine, different, real) languages are eligible for inclusion. For this very reason we do not have an Australian English Wikipedia nor a Southern American English version however difficult it may be to understand for some people, both those in Oz or Dixie still widely speak and write the same exact language even if the vocabulary is sometimes different, the general vocabulary is still widely and easily understood particularly taking education into account. Likewise Dari is just like someone down under, still an English speaker, still a Persian speaker.71.142.72.131 21:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)